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    #21
    let me show you some exercices. 30/30 is to long, you don't work the energy chain of table tennis
    This is some exemple


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    #22
    i have answered him for the physical training.
    13/17 is better than 30/30

  3. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardiofitping
    to target the table tennis energy chain, you have to make exercices with high intensity and short time. The rest must be longer than the time of effort
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardiofitping
    let me show you some exercices. 30/30 is to long, you don't work the energy chain of table tennis
    This is some exemple

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardiofitping
    i have answered him for the physical training.
    13/17 is better than 30/30
    I will assume that the context for the statement above is that 13/17 is better for the development of table tennis skills.

    Is it possible that 30/30 might be better for fitness and weight loss?
    Spin Everything.

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    #24
    you can read this document to have knowledges for physical training:
    you can translate the document
    http://www2.ac-toulouse.fr/ia-eps-32...ergetiques.pdf

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    #25
    30/30 is to work lactic energy chain.
    It is good for athletism 400/800 m.
    in table tennis you need maximal speed in short time
    it is rare to get 30 secondes points in table tennis

    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    I will assume that the context for the statement above is that 13/17 is better for the development of table tennis skills.

    Is it possible that 30/30 might be better for fitness and weight loss?

  6. Music&Ping is offline
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    #26
    [EDITED POST FOR PEACE PURPOSE]

    I have already mentioned that I was on the 30/20 these days, and soon on the 30/15.

    Now another concept, what I do with jazz standards: 2x12 bars of Miles Davis famous blues "Bag's Groove" then 1x12 bars of rest, 1st beat: move+stroke prep, 2nd beat: stroke, and so on. Increase the tempo with faster standards like the famous Sonny Rollins "Tenor Madness".

    I've also done metronome patterns to mimic the ball's bounces on drives strokes and top spins VS blocks, and I do exactly like with music training: start @ 120 BPM then +20, -10, +20, -10 and on and on until you ain't able to breath, 30 bars each.

    13/17 is gentle to me, 30/15 is way more physically demanding: only 13" of exercise with more rest ? I thought who can do the more can do the least, I'm certainly wrong then... in music like in sport, the brain is processing the same way : that's why jazz improvisers rely on everyday warm-ups exercise doing scales, triads, arpeggios in every 12 tones, like we TT players do with multiple balls practice over various strokes sequences all over the table. When I play a specific line over a jazz II-V-I, to me it's like doing a BH --> pivot FH --> cross-step FH --> BH and I'm back to the begining of the sequence, so If I'm increasing the speed, my brain will have to process muscle memory's reactivity the same way. TT is all about rhythm too and rhythm is a physical concept, you don't hear it, you feel it.

    [END OF THE EDITED POST FOR PEACE PURPOSE]
    Last edited by Music&Ping; 01-03-2021 at 10:10 PM.

  7. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Music&Ping
    I won't even show him what I do with jazz standards: 2x12 bars of Miles Davis famous blues "Bag's Groove" then 1x12 bars of rest, 1st beat: move+stroke prep, 2nd beat: stroke, and so on. Increase the tempo with faster standards like the famous Sonny Rollins "Tenor Madness".
    Great music plus exercise! Sounds good to me.

    Here:



    Or:



    I kind of like some of Mile's newer stuff as well:



    Look how I am dating myself. Newer stuff means from 1981. And Things and Back Seat Betty might be slower than you want for your exercises.

    So, maybe this is more your speed:

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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 01-03-2021 at 06:37 PM.
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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Music&Ping
    I've also done metronome patterns to mimic the ball's bounces on drives strokes and top spins VS blocks, and I do exactly like with music training: start @ 120 BPM then +20, -10, +20, -10 and on and on until you ain't able to breath, 30 bars each.
    Some things are hard to decode for me. 120 BPM means "balls per minute"?

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    #29
    no
    it is the speed of the music i think

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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    Some things are hard to decode for me. 120 BPM means "balls per minute"?
    Since he is talking about music and mentions a metronome in the paragraph and is talking about time signatures in music, I would venture that 120 BPM refers to 120 beats per minute. Not sure how you would translate that two balls per minute in his exercise, but, 120 beats per minute is a setting on a metronome. Metronomes standardly use beats per minute for different settings so, the settings 61, 78, 90 would all indicate BPM.

    And since, in that paragraph, he mentions metronome patterns, I would venture, it is possible that he is hearing the time signatures in his head and going with just the beat of the metronome at the above mentioned setting (120 BPM).

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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 01-03-2021 at 07:31 PM.
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    #31
    your method with music is very interesting.
    But 30 is too long, you can't maintain the maximal speed necessary to table tennis.The goal of physical training is to improve speed, it is the reason why you should work at maximum speed

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    Last edited by Cardiofitping; 01-03-2021 at 07:45 PM.

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    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Since he is talking about music and mentions a metronome in the paragraph and is talking about time signatures in music, I would venture that 120 BPM refers to 120 beats per minute. Not sure how you would translate that two balls per minute in his exercise, but, 120 beats per minute is a setting on a metronome. Metronomes standardly use beats per minute for different settings so, the settings 61, 78, 90 would all indicate BPM.

    And since, in that paragraph, he mentions metronome patterns, I would venture, it is possible that he is hearing the time signatures in his head and going with just the beat of the metronome at the above mentioned setting (120 BPM).
    Now I'm getting the glimpse of it. Like the beat and then the individual moves (not necessarily all strokes, that would be too fast) are happening in that rhythm.

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    #33
    There are not wrong. when you see the videos, the time of exercices is very short, not more than 15 secondes.(when he jumps, when he goes up the stairs...)
    It all depends on what you want to work: endurance, speed or resistance.

    are you a defender, an attaquant? everything depends your style game.

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    #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardiofitping
    There are not wrong. when you see the videos, the time of exercices is very short, not more than 15 secondes.
    What mode do you recommend for Falkenberg drill on table tennis robot?

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    #35
    it all depend what you want to work: Physic, Technic?
    If you want to improve speed, you should work 15 seconds and rest 15 seconds.
    If you want to improve endurance, you should work long exercices (more than 2 minutes)
    if you want to improve resistance, you should work quite long exercices (from 15 secondes to 2 minutes)
    What do you want to worK?

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    #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardiofitping
    it all depend what you want to work: Physic, Technic?
    If you want to improve speed, you should work 15 seconds and rest 15 seconds.
    If you want to improve endurance, you should work long exercices (more than 2 minutes)
    if you want to improve resistance, you should work quite long exercices (from 15 secondes to 2 minutes)
    What do you want to worK?
    Technic and speed. I see the physical fitness as totally secondary for me and automatically coming from the time spent doing exercise where the focus is not the fitness.

    Can you include the BPM (ball per minute) recommendation into the mode?

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    #37
    if you work technic you should program a quite speed to focus on the technique (have time to do the gesture well to automate it)
    For speed, you need to increase. However the work must be qualitative (no more than 50% faults).
    try a free session with us on january 17th
    https://cardiofitping.systeme.io/essg-ea6f2a0b

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  18. Music&Ping is offline
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    #38
    Indeed, at a given slow/mid tempo, say 120 BPM, you will work on resistancy with those 30 bars at ... indeed like Carl said, 4 beats per bar, so one bar has for example that motion:
    1 hit - 2 move and prepare - 3 hit - 4 move and prepare

    When you increase the tempo, with the same amount of bars it takes less time: 30 bars @ 120 BPM won't last the same time as 150 BPM obviously. So it becomes more of a speed training.

    For instance, when I work with music tunes, when I want to focus on speed, I'll play "Tenor Madness" and do my footwork drills for only 12 bars @ 176 BPM ! and in that case indeed we're in the "speed" time lapse. When working on a slower tune, I increase the amount of bars, and work on resistancy.

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    Last edited by Music&Ping; 01-03-2021 at 08:54 PM.

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    #39

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    #40
    Those bebop fast tunes are insane for footwork drills and almost impossible to do unless you're FZD hahaha

    I'm more into these for BH and FH drives, 2x12 bars of this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHKnvwoGg0Y

    Then I incraese the tempo to this tune, 2x16 bars as the melody is in 32 bars:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9atZD_s-EA

    Take 1 is insane ! if you want to work on speed, only 1x16 bars:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nt62hRVQ_4

    And finally Tenor Madness in between take 2 and take 1 of "But Not For Me":
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNsghyNnV2k

    for the beginners a simple moderate shuffle blues is good !
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LZByLhfNVQ


    For top spins loops, I'm more into funk (yeah...)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqHqepF91us

    Then I increase to
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwklCBKfPKM

    Then finally faster tempo, here I train on the A section with melody, and rest on the B chorus, kind of " break" with the horns, the tunes starts with the B section:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F80JaxELfFc

    For the service receives, pushes then back footwork to a loop position, I use latin jazz clave in 6/8, but still use it as a 4/4 (polyrhythms in music, too difficult and long to talk about it):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_TpSQFhoYc

    Faster:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvKNB-M5voY

    The for the combos, only one stroke per position, including cross-step, I use those tunes:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w--aQWQEc1s

    Faster, here the guiro is important cos' it forces you to focus on preparation on beat 1, I'm doing the BH-pivot FH-cross step FH-BH with this one
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH8xsmvgzbE

    I'm working on another concept with slap bass at the moment, the goal here will be to focus on accents variations, the syncopations. In Funk music with bass slap lines, sometimes the accent is on 2nd, 3rd or 4th semiquaver, then instead of having a regular motion with 1-2-3-4 steady beats, the syncopations forces you to play the stroke 1, 2 or 3 semiquavers earlier or later.

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    Last edited by Music&Ping; 01-03-2021 at 09:31 PM.

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