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  1. Der_Echte is offline
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    #1

    Kim Jung Hoon Discusses a DIFFERENT approach to Chakita flips

    Hi Everyone,

    This vid, where I timed to 19:11 shows Kim Jung Hoon explaining a slightly different approach to making a safe Chakita flip.

    A few major differences than what conventiional coaches teach.

    KJH emphasizes that one should step in, and if right handed, step a bit too far extra to the right (from player's view)... and then LEAN to the left as you track the ball... which gives you time to figure out how much spin, what spin, what break, what depth, what time arrival where... gives a little more time and a better angle to read those things of the ball.

    KJH emphasizes that it is MUCH higher percentage to let the ball drop, even as much a s halfway or a little more.

    KJH emphasizes that many players actually do a straight flip, which is like a BH loop and lose all variety and unpredictability, as well as some flexability to be safe (although many players' straight flips are safe. he sees this in his lessons from players he coaches.

    WHY would you want to step too far to the right ???... Well, he explains that it is actually possible to lean and hit while leaning (I say you get kinetic energy from that little movement that can be easily transferred without huge stroke) he explains that on the move hitting before stepping just doesn't work (even though it can on FH wing), because postion and leverage are much more important for BH as the strike zone is smaller. Also, since the foot is planted at impact, it is easier to push off the left leg to recover right away - the swing isn't carrying you out of recovery position. He also explained that it is too difficult to plant foot and strike the ball if it is too far to your right.

    This tracking of ball a little extra time gives you better chances to see the ball well and make a good shot, even when ball is falling and KJH prefers the timing of letting the ball fall. Earlier in the vid, he had that club's coach come out and demnstrate the timing with a prop - a ball stuck to a long wire spring thingy.

    Der_Echte note - I have had advanced players tell me to strike ball when high and strike hard... I have shown people in practice you can banana flip a ball even one inch above table... WHY? For the same reason a banana flip is safe - because you impact back of ball gong sideways - you are not fighting the spin axis and easily overcome the ball's spin with your own spin.

    He also goes into a longer explaination and demnstration at the 15:00 mark.

    At 18:13 he shows how by selk, you bounce ball on table, and on second bounce as ball falls you make your chakita flip.

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    Last edited by Der_Echte; 01-08-2021 at 02:12 AM.
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  2. Der_Echte is offline
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    #2
    I guess one could also call that a CHO-KITA flip if you flip it wide for a winner and CHO !!! your way to the scoreboard to add a point.
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  3. lodro is online now
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    #3
    Chiquita Brands International

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    Chiquita Brands International Sàrl, formerly known as Chiquita Brands International Inc., is an American producer and distributor of bananas and other produce. The company operates under a number of subsidiary brand names, including the flagship Chiquita

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  4. Der_Echte is offline
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    #4
    OOOOH, tell that to the Koreans, or the Japanese when they say it in their language and accents.
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  5. lodro is online now
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte
    OOOOH, tell that to the Koreans, or the Japanese when they say it in their language and accents.
    Adam Bobrow can do that

  6. Der_Echte is offline
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    #6
    Yup, Adam has friends eevrywhere, loves cats and knows things.
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    #7
    Thanks for this, really useful. I think I often take too much of a step in instead of a step out and leaning more to the right (since I'm left handed) and maybe a bit more in instead of stepping in too much. Also find it hard to put more sidespin rather than coming over the top of the ball. Perhaps it's easier to let the ball drop a bit when using sidespin.

    You say to push off the left leg, but shouldn't it be the right that's planted and pushing off from for a right-hander? I think it's ideal to have both feet planted but I often see players plant and push off firmly from the right foot for a right hander. Look at Harimoto's feet here https://youtu.be/ju-YLxsEZWM?t=269

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    #8
    Ii was talking for the 19:11 time mark example in KJH's vid. ball is going to BH corner.

    Harimoto is going for a banana flip on a ball to his wide FH in that time mark on your link. This ball requires you to flip and push off with the right as RH player to hop back to neutral, yes like you say, there, the hitting foot must push off.

    The ball KJH is demonstrating is a ball that curves towards your BH corner. Since you are overstepping it a bit, then leaning to your non-hitting side to take it, your swing and a little push from non hitting leg after the flip get your body back straight. If you pushed off with your hitting leg on that shot, you might be on the way to falling over.

    If short ball is middle table of a little on FH side, it would make sense on that ball to flip and push off with hitting leg to hop back to open stance and maybe another small quick hop. I was just speakiing for the ball KJH was showing.

    You bring up a good point about knowing how to push off to get back ready.

    So many years ago, there was a vid of Schlager teaching a kid at his academy to hit and push off at time of hit... this vid was heavily criticized without people realizing the context was to show kid another way to recover quickly. I think this was in the about.com forum days.

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte
    Ii was talking for the 19:11 time mark example in KJH's vid. ball is going to BH corner.

    Harimoto is going for a banana flip on a ball to his wide FH in that time mark on your link. This ball requires you to flip and push off with the right as RH player to hop back to neutral, yes like you say, there, the hitting foot must push off.

    The ball KJH is demonstrating is a ball that curves towards your BH corner. Since you are overstepping it a bit, then leaning to your non-hitting side to take it, your swing and a little push from non hitting leg after the flip get your body back straight. If you pushed off with your hitting leg on that shot, you might be on the way to falling over.

    If short ball is middle table of a little on FH side, it would make sense on that ball to flip and push off with hitting leg to hop back to open stance and maybe another small quick hop. I was just speakiing for the ball KJH was showing.

    You bring up a good point about knowing how to push off to get back ready.

    So many years ago, there was a vid of Schlager teaching a kid at his academy to hit and push off at time of hit... this vid was heavily criticized without people realizing the context was to show kid another way to recover quickly. I think this was in the about.com forum days.
    Ok, thanks for clarifying. Makes sense to push off from non-hitting side if it's deeper in the BH corner. I think this is also a mistake I've been making then, too much stepping in and always pushing off from my left leg (as a lefty), no matter where the ball is. Some lean to the right is good to keep in mind too, to control the swing better. Most of the time I'm receiving serves to my middle/fh though.

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    #10
    Thanks for this and indeed all the Korean videos you’ve been posting Der Echte. I think I’ve watched them all, please keep ‘em coming. It’s refreshing to see such enthusiasm for table tennis which isn’t so common elsewhere in the world.

    I experimented with this particular adjustment to technique today and it’s definitely a good shout.

    KJH is pretty entertaining anyway but if you want an extra level of humour, turn on the YouTube automatically generated English subtitles, they’re pretty python-esque. I’m not sure I expected “yes, but I can’t walk because I wake up from the burning moon” as part of a table tennis tutorial.

  11. Der_Echte is offline
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    #11
    Buachaille,

    Triple haha. That was before he got into explaining everything. He was relating a small tale of the prior night's drinking with friends.

    Korean dudes will play hard at club, then have the energy to do a thunder run at restaurant and pub.

    Kim Jung Hoon might be the best pro at identifying amateur mistakes and clearly communicating. ALL pros can id... but not many break it down to understandable terms.

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    #12
    Feel like there are many variations of the banana flip. Good to be able to do more over and also more on the side. Personally I think it is easier to get more power over the ball but feel that the flip is somewhat clean and a flip with more sidespin will give the opponent a bit more nasty ball.

    Also think easier to get the ball over the net by going by the side. Need good acceleration to go over the ball.

    There are some cute ladies in Korea!

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    #13
    Lula, a Sweden dude visited when I was in Korea and I had him in my local club. Dude was prolly 2-3 levels below your level, but still Korean City Div 1 class strong.

    Just about ALL the ladies in the club were all hot about that dude and wanted to pet him - they were drooling. It works both ways.

    Only in the last 5 yrs are Korean amateurs in numbers learning a BH flip and variations... this is because more and more Korean pros with modern topspin game style are retiring, and opening up clubs. Magnifying this is the explosion of youtubers, some are good on their own, some are pros, some collaberate with the pros, so you are getting much more modern TT shown to the TT public than ever before - that is a good force. Plus, more modern styles are getting more popular, so demand is there. Could be arguement where demand originates, but the demand is now there to learn.

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    #14
    I wondered why I've always had better successfull Chiquita rate in the double matchs , because I naturally lean to my extreme right to do it and to give space to my partner. It makes sense...

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    #15
    Musaab, maybe what KJH explained helps, but i would also say knowing ball will land somewhere near a target and that you may have more determination or confidence to attack also help out the percentages some, maybe even a lot.
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte
    KJH emphasizes that one should step in, and if right handed, step a bit too far extra to the right (from player's view)... and then LEAN to the left as you track the ball... which gives you time to figure out how much spin, what spin, what break, what depth, what time arrival where... gives a little more time and a better angle to read those things of the ball.
    What helped me when doing chikita is to get really low, with body and head, almost like the head is in the ball height (a bit overstated). I think it was recommended by Dima Ovtcharov in a video made by Dan, if I remember correctly. What I'm sure he said is to properly curl (not sure it is the best verb) the hand, wait for the ball, and then quickly release the rotation into it. That helps too. For chikita I've never thought about being a bit more to the right, this is new. I tried recently, it definitely doesn't hurt :-) I'll keep that in mind.

    Sometimes on BH topspin I try to take the ball little bit more on the left, because then you can transfer more force. Like in the sense of tennis BH, where the ball is fully on left. I think the more I take the ball on the left-side, the more natural it is for me to also hit the ground with left foot, rotate waist, and then follow with the hand movement. Not so natural when the ball is in front, and I can't do it in chikita - my feeling is that my lower body doesn't "initiate" much there yet.

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Richie
    You say to push off the left leg, but shouldn't it be the right that's planted and pushing off from for a right-hander?
    Hi, you may like this video of ZJK:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHWHOuXF1hY

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