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    1. Top | #1
      JNicholas is online now
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      Question Butterfly Viscaria poor quality control checking??? (lens issue)

      Hi there!
      I just bought a Viscalia and I seen that the lens is inserted into the handle in an uneven way.
      As can be seen in the photo, the right side (as in photo) is recessed more than the left side.
      For sure, the blade is not a fake. It was bought from the local Butterfly store.
      This is an usual situation or is an unfortunate exception?
      To be honest, I didn't expected to this... I saw fakes that had a better QC.

      Click image for larger version. 

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    2. Top | #2
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Could you show photos of several more angles including the base of the handle? Also, something that shows the plies. Thank you.

      Also, why not just take it back to the location where you purchased it and show them?
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    3. Top | #3
      Baal is offline
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      Take it back! I've owned a lot of Viscarias and have never seen that before. Not acceptable.

    4. Top | #4
      JNicholas is online now
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      Probably tomorrow morning I will call or I will go back to the Butterfly store to have the seller opinion.
      Do you think that's a fake? Hope not, was bought from the official Butterfly store.

      Click image for larger version. 

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    5. Top | #5
      Baal is offline
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      I don't KNOW that it is a fake. But seeing something like that makes me SUSPECT it is a fake because I've never seen a flaw like that on one of mine. Of course I'm just one person. Maybe even the best manufacturers are going to have an occasional QC problem. But if this is a real Butterfly this one should not have been sold.

    6. Top | #6
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      Looks legit but maybe a bad batch.

    7. Top | #7
      zeio is offline
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      That's how the FLared handle should look. The "uneven" recess is normal. A flared handle gets wider towards the bottom. That means the handle piece was placed flat when being processed on the CNC. Good QC there.
      Last edited by zeio; 4 Days Ago at 03:01 AM.
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    8. Top | #8
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      I think if you buy it at an official store, then you can complain and get a better replacement item.

    9. Top | #9
      Lazer is offline
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      Thats no big deal. It looks perfectly legit to me. Its mostly hand made so some imperfections are expected.
      The question is. Is it playing good and can You feel it, if You can then does it bother You? I'm sure it wouldn't bother me.

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      Cheers
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      Last edited by Lazer; 4 Days Ago at 08:20 AM.

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    11. Top | #10
      JNicholas is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      That's how the FLared handle should look. The "uneven" recess is normal. A flared handle gets wider towards the bottom. That means the handle piece was placed flat when being processed on the CNC. Good QC there.
      I understand what you said, but is the only FL that I have with such problem. My other FL blades (Stiga, DHL and Yasaka) did not have the same lens placement.

      What is interesting is that I found on Internet a lot Viscaria blades with such issues. It appear clearly in a lot photos of Viscaria handles that this flaw is present in a better or worse manner. Am I the only one who is disturbed by this aspect?

    12. Top | #11
      JNicholas is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lazer View Post
      Thats no big deal. It looks perfectly legit to me. Its mostly hand made so some imperfections are expected.
      The question is. Is it playing good and can You feel it, if You can the does it bother You? I'm sure it wouldn't bother me.

      Cheers
      L-zr
      I did not glued the rubbers (I am not decided if I will return it or not) but for sure it will have no influence when I play. When I hold it, the fingers will not rest on the bottom part of the lens so I will not feel a difference. The main issue is due to the dwarf within my brain that tell me over and over "Did you just bought a Butterfly with flaws???"

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    14. Top | #12
      Lazer is offline
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      Sure my logo (Innerforce ALC.S) wasn't perfectly flush either and I don't use edge tape so the edges are a little banged up. And when You change rubber the top layer will eventually rip a little. I fix this with a thin thin layer of varnish.

      Cheers
      L-zr

    15. Top | #13
      JNicholas is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lazer View Post
      Sure my logo (Innerforce ALC.S) wasn't perfectly flush either and I don't use edge tape so the edges are a little banged up. And when You change rubber the top layer will eventually rip a little. I fix this with a thin thin layer of varnish.

      Cheers
      L-zr
      The edge of the koto wool will rip a little? Also the ALC layer is affected? On my Stiga never ever the outer plies edge was affected by the rubber changes. I peal off from side to side. Based by Butterfly, sealing the blade is not recommended. I do not know why, probably because the sealant will change the blade response making it harder (???).
      Did you seal entire blade or only the edges?

    16. Top | #14
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Baal View Post
      Take it back! I've owned a lot of Viscarias and have never seen that before. Not acceptable.
      Could you take photos of one or some of the lenses from a similar angle?

      Thanks.

    17. Top | #15
      Lazer is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by JNicholas View Post
      The edge of the koto wool will rip a little? Also the ALC layer is affected? On my Stiga never ever the outer plies edge was affected by the rubber changes. I peal off from side to side. Based by Butterfly, sealing the blade is not recommended. I do not know why, probably because the sealant will change the blade response making it harder (???).
      Did you seal entire blade or only the edges?
      Interesting, I seal the entire blade a thin layer of ordinary varnish, and it hasn't ripped for me at the edge yet.
      It doesn't rip every time, just every once in a while. It has not ripped through the layers only on the top layer. I don't peal off from a particular side. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I also think how You glue it has something to do with it.
      I doubt the blade is going to respond a whole lot different with a thin layer of varnish. It will be an "extension" of the rubber, but I can be wrong here...

    18. Top | #16
      JNicholas is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lazer View Post
      Interesting, I seal the entire blade a thin layer of ordinary varnish, and it hasn't ripped for me at the edge yet.
      It doesn't rip every time, just every once in a while. It has not ripped through the layers only on the top layer. I don't peal off from a particular side. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I also think how You glue it has something to do with it.
      I doubt the blade is going to respond a whole lot different with a thin layer of varnish. It will be an "extension" of the rubber, but I can be wrong here...
      Regarding the sealing process there are a lot pros and cons about. From my point of view, if you are comfortable with this idea and you seen more good things, go for it.
      Regarding the pealing, here is the Butterfly advice.
      Click image for larger version. 

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    20. Top | #17
      JNicholas is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Baal View Post
      Take it back! I've owned a lot of Viscarias and have never seen that before. Not acceptable.
      I just came back from the Butterfly store. The blade was replaced without any comment.
      An interesting things... I checked almost all blades in the store and all Viscaria (in fact all ALC line) blades have a more or less this issue. Unfortunately, mine was the most affected otherwise it could not be feel or seen without a close inspection of the lens zone.
      The explanation was "it's happen because it is a manual process...". And not only ALC line have the same issue. The most interesting aspect, all the blades that are manufactured in Europe does not have this issue! It seems that in Europe, all handles are CNC drilled and finished (glued) by robots.

    21. Top | #18
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      That's how the FLared handle should look. The "uneven" recess is normal. A flared handle gets wider towards the bottom. That means the handle piece was placed flat when being processed on the CNC. Good QC there.
      Quote Originally Posted by JNicholas View Post
      I just came back from the Butterfly store. The blade was replaced without any comment.
      An interesting things... I checked almost all blades in the store and all Viscaria (in fact all ALC line) blades have a more or less this issue. Unfortunately, mine was the most affected otherwise it could not be feel or seen without a close inspection of the lens zone.
      The explanation was "it's happen because it is a manual process...". And not only ALC line have the same issue. The most interesting aspect, all the blades that are manufactured in Europe does not have this issue! It seems that in Europe, all handles are CNC drilled and finished (glued) by robots.
      Okay. You got the blade exchanged. That is good. Now there is no need for Baal to show photos from any of his handles. And it appears Zeio had a point that seems pretty valid. It is worth understanding what he is saying.

      If the handle gets wider towards the flared end, and the lens is placed parallel to the plies of the blade face, then the handle will be a little higher at the bottom of the lens (nearer to the handle's end).

      Something to note:

      Click image for larger version. 

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      I doubt most people would be touching that part of the handle at all if the side with the lens is used as the FH side of the blade. If not, I doubt you would notice it anyway.

      Still, if it was bugging you, it is good you got it changed.

      BTW: the blade in my hand in that photo is from 1991 and if I don't look closely I can't see it. But if I look and feel very closely, the lens, closer to the blade face protrudes a very small amount and on the side near the handle, it is very slightly recessed.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 4 Days Ago at 02:33 PM.

    22. Top | #19
      Lazer is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by JNicholas View Post
      Regarding the sealing process there are a lot pros and cons about. From my point of view, if you are comfortable with this idea and you seen more good things, go for it.
      Regarding the pealing, here is the Butterfly advice.
      Hmm, Thanks for the picture. I think I may do it wrong. But if You think about it should really be obvious when You think of the directions of the grains. It didn't cross my mind. Oh well I know now.

      Good luck with Your blade.

      Cheers
      L-zr

    23. Top | #20
      Baal is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by JNicholas View Post
      I just came back from the Butterfly store. The blade was replaced without any comment.
      An interesting things... I checked almost all blades in the store and all Viscaria (in fact all ALC line) blades have a more or less this issue. Unfortunately, mine was the most affected otherwise it could not be feel or seen without a close inspection of the lens zone.
      The explanation was "it's happen because it is a manual process...". And not only ALC line have the same issue. The most interesting aspect, all the blades that are manufactured in Europe does not have this issue! It seems that in Europe, all handles are CNC drilled and finished (glued) by robots.
      The newest one that I have is a series P, I have H and N also (sold all my others which were in that same age range). I wonder if the manufacturing has gotten a bit less careful for newer ones, maybe due to markedly increased demand for this blade?
      Last edited by Baal; 4 Days Ago at 05:19 PM.

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