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  1. virtuososiu is offline
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    #1

    Post re-visiting Neo Hurricane 3, provincial 37 and 38 degree

    Hello everyone

    I went to the local table tennis store and bought these rubbers. They are provincial versions, 37 and 38 degree. The owner recommended at least 39 for forehand but I hesitated and got 38 instead.

    Since many brands are now trying to work on a gripper top sheet, I thought I would try the good old hurricane and see how it is like now. Also, 37 degree Hurricane was not really a thing until lately.

    I have only trained for 1 session so far, so its really just a first impression. Also, I have not boosted the rubbers in any way or form. I want to see how the Neo version play.

    Forehand, 38 degree, black:
    - Drives are slow, controlled, and nothing too spectacular.
    - Blocks are slow and controlled but you need to adjust the bat angle more actively, since the top sheet is quite sticky.
    - Looping is something I need to explore a bit more. Partly because forehand is my weaker side. Coming from Faster G1, I need time to adjust my stroke. I do not know how long, but I am patient and willing to find out.
    - Counter drives over and close to the table is something I find VERY EASY to do with this rubber. I attribute it to the grippy top sheet and the softer than usual sponge which translate into plenty of dwell time (one can argue that it is too long). Next time I will go for the 39 degree. 38 degree may just be too soft. I don't mind it for now, since I will have to adjust my technique and it will probably encourage me to do more with my feet/legs.

    Backhand, 37 degree, red:
    - Drives, again, are nothing spectacular, but are slow and controlled.
    - Blocks can be performed quite well despite the sticky top sheet. Probably due to its soft sponge.
    - Opening-up/ lifting backspin off the table is VERY spinny. It very rewarding to be able to lift backspin and watch the opponent struggle to keep it in check. I do have to point out that the speed is slow, and its likely that more practise will allow for a more confident stroke, and therefore quicker/faster shots.
    - Recovery between different strokes feels challenging, a lot more training will be required.

    Here are some photos.

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    Almost forgot to mention, blade is carbonado 45 weighing at 93g. I am not a fan of the white tag, so I am using it on my backhand.

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    #2
    Update:
    - after playing 4+ training sessions and 2 game nights
    - backhand open-ups against backspin is only getting spinier!
    - It does lack power. However since its so grippy and slow, it encourages me to really go for it on my backhand. Cant praise it enough if you are willing to work your backhand.
    - Forehand loops against long pimples are getting more interesting. Slow it is, but once again the spin makes up for everything.
    - I am starting to feel like 38 degree might be too soft for FH. It translate into long dwell/contact time. Its good for now, especially when I am re-developing my forehand technique.

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    #3
    Thanks for your input!

    I too have started to use unboosted H3 Neo on my FH. The speed on a faster blade like Viscaria doesn't seem to be much of a problem and the rubber is very controllable. Great for focusing on spin and working on improving your strokes, and especially helpful for serves and the short game. I eventually want to try it on some of my other blades: Primorac OFF-, Korbel, IFLALC, Harimoto ALC, Mizutani ZLC.

    Might also have to try 37 on my BH.

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    #4
    Recently glued H3N H41 2.2 comm. black (FH) and H3N H37 2.15 comm. red (BH), both slightly boosted with 2 thin layers of Falco (not massive doming). The H41 is faster, still they feel similar, like family. I used to have Battle 2 H39 BS, which is good, and I knew I wanted a bit harder on FH. I didn't know whether H40 or H41. Took H41, also because when I spend these, I want to go for provincial H3 (non Neo) BS on FH, not sure H40 or H41 yet.

    The H41 feels a bit denser even than BlueGrip C1, which is ESN 60. This is strange because H3N H41 weights a bit less. The pores in sponges in both are so small that I can't say which has smaller. Probably H3. Still both H3 and C1/C2 have smaller pores than Rakza Z (also hybrid, ESN 50). C1 is a bit faster then H3N H41, more so on bounce test than in actual play. H3N H41 feels less forgiving - more sensitive on where exactly on the blade the ball contacts. That is a good thing for me.

    H37 on BH feels about right. C2 on BH is also good. I liked Rakza Z on BH too, more than Rakza X (which I liked more than Presto Spin, which I liked more than AK47 blue, which was still OK :-). C2 feels bit more linear than Rakza Z. Both are very good. Didn't try Rakza Z EH, I expect more bounciness, for BH I'd go normal Rakza Z (if I had to go Rakza). I also think H3N H37 lacks power, not sure how it will be in match play. If I end up not liking it, I'd go back to C2 or Rakza Z. I know this thread is not about C1/C2, Rakza, but in another thread about Xiom Omega 7 China you asked about it.

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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by thomas.pong
    Thanks for your input!

    I too have started to use unboosted H3 Neo on my FH. The speed on a faster blade like Viscaria doesn't seem to be much of a problem and the rubber is very controllable. Great for focusing on spin and working on improving your strokes, and especially helpful for serves and the short game. I eventually want to try it on some of my other blades: Primorac OFF-, Korbel, IFLALC, Harimoto ALC, Mizutani ZLC.

    Might also have to try 37 on my BH.

    Hi Thomas, interesting to see you using H3 Neo unboosted. Have you tried H3 (none Neo) unboosted too?


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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by virtuososiu

    Hi Thomas, interesting to see you using H3 Neo unboosted. Have you tried H3 (none Neo) unboosted too?

    Hey, not yet, but I will be sometime next month.

    I think the Viscaria gives me the extra boost I need with unboosted H3 Neo right now.

    Do you boost your H3N's? You don't find 38 too soft on your FH?

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    #7

    I've been using Hurricane rubbers on my fh since I've started playing again three years ago. So far I've used H3N, H3, H3 Prov OS and H3N Prov OS, mostly mid hard. Currently I use Neo Prov OS in 39 and 40 deg on my two main 5ply off- blades and it works well, although I find 40 deg a tad too hard for a slower blade. A faster blade would definitely help here. I don't boost the Neos, I don't think it's necessary. What I find helpful is to choose the thickest sponge option (2.2mm) if you don't boost because this makes the rubber a bit easier to handle when you loop. I've also played with a boosted H3 (mid hard). Generally I think that most H3 users boost too much (three or four layers is really insane). I've only used one layer of Haifu Seamoon which I have applied directly to the sponge without a layer of glue. It felt a bit softer than an unboosted H3N at the beginning but apart from that I couldn't detect any other major differences. I think that there is a misconception about the effectiveness of boosters. It's not that you get a super fast magic H3 after boosting it with Haifu. I also like the hard linear feel of H3 and don't want a too soft and elastic rubber on my fh.

    I'd also like to try a 37degr H3 on my backhand in the future. I think I would put that on my H301 blade because the others are too slow.

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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MK73
    I've been using Hurricane rubbers on my fh since I've started playing again three years ago. So far I've used H3N, H3, H3 Prov OS and H3N Prov OS, mostly mid hard. Currently I use Neo Prov OS in 39 and 40 deg on my two main 5ply off- blades and it works well, although I find 40 deg a tad too hard for a slower blade. A faster blade would definitely help here. I don't boost the Neos, I don't think it's necessary. What I find helpful is to choose the thickest sponge option (2.2mm) if you don't boost because this makes the rubber a bit easier to handle when you loop. I've also played with a boosted H3 (mid hard). Generally I think that most H3 users boost too much (three or four layers is really insane). I've only used one layer of Haifu Seamoon which I have applied directly to the sponge without a layer of glue. It felt a bit softer than an unboosted H3N at the beginning but apart from that I couldn't detect any other major differences. I think that there is a misconception about the effectiveness of boosters. It's not that you get a super fast magic H3 after boosting it with Haifu. I also like the hard linear feel of H3 and don't want a too soft and elastic rubber on my fh.

    I'd also like to try a 37degr H3 on my backhand in the future. I think I would put that on my H301 blade because the others are too slow.
    Thickest sponge, absolutely agree, always MAX for me. I know people though, who really differentiate between 1.8 and 1.6... In boosting I think I still have things to learn, if you see the pictures in another thread, from harty and davidzhang, where the pimples nicely come out, I don't have that, do you? The 37deg on BH feels good. What I'd like to understand is, why do you say 40 is too hard on slower blade? Why not on faster blade? I just find this: the harder the sponge, the faster the rubber on FH, and also the softer the sponge, the easier to engage in BH spin. The difference is not enormous though, even between H37 and H41.

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    Thickest sponge, absolutely agree, always MAX for me. I know people though, who really differentiate between 1.8 and 1.6... In boosting I think I still have things to learn, if you see the pictures in another thread, from harty and davidzhang, where the pimples nicely come out, I don't have that, do you? The 37deg on BH feels good. What I'd like to understand is, why do you say 40 is too hard on slower blade? Why not on faster blade? I just find this: the harder the sponge, the faster the rubber on FH, and also the softer the sponge, the easier to engage in BH spin. The difference is not enormous though, even between H37 and H41.

    I find the 40degr a bit less forgiving. Not much, just a bit. The pimples come out when you apply two layers of Haifu Seamoon within 12 hours or so (apply one layer, then wait over night, then the second). The second layer causes a quite extreme doming. I've tried that with an old H3 of mine.

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    Last edited by MK73; 02-25-2021 at 06:28 PM.

  10. Kuba Hajto is offline
    says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
     
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    #10
    Harder sponge is like harder spring. I won't try to make any scientific explanation because brokenball won't be happy.

    Harder sponge allows you to absorb more energy before it bottoms out, and it will give more energy back.

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  11. ttarc is offline
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    Thickest sponge, absolutely agree, always MAX for me. I know people though, who really differentiate between 1.8 and 1.6...
    One reason not to use 2.2 mm sponges at least for rubbers like the H3 is if you want to play official league matches or tournaments especially when you boost. The maximum rubber thickness including all glue layers must be <= 4.0 mm.
    In boosting I think I still have things to learn, if you see the pictures in another thread, from harty and davidzhang, where the pimples nicely come out, I don't have that, do you?
    What booster do you use? I get this when using paraffin/baby oil, lemon/orange oil (mostly Limonene which was also used in the speed glue days) or Seamoon. Just don't wait for the rubber to completely flatten after boosting 😉
    The 37deg on BH feels good. What I'd like to understand is, why do you say 40 is too hard on slower blade?
    Could be because a slower blade is usually softer/more flexible which makes it a little bit harder to activate the sponge. If we weren't in lockdown I would love to try exactly this (H3 37 on backhand and H3 39 and 40 on forehand on different blades) in real matches...

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    #12
    One reason not to use 2.2 mm sponges at least for rubbers like the H3 is if you want to play official league matches or tournaments especially when you boost. The maximum rubber thickness including all glue layers must be <= 4.0 mm.



    Could be because a slower blade is usually softer/more flexible which makes it a little bit harder to activate the sponge. If we weren't in lockdown I would love to try exactly this (H3 37 on backhand and H3 39 and 40 on forehand on different blades) in real matches..


    Yes, that's right. It's not a good idea to buy max H3s and then boost. The rubber becomes too thick and that might cause problems. That is why I wrote choose this option only if you DON'T want to boost.

    With respect to slower blade and 40degr H version I meant that this combination is more difficult to play with far from the table when you are not able to apply full force to your shots, e.g. when you're out of position. In such situations a faster blade is more helpful.

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    Last edited by MK73; 02-25-2021 at 10:04 PM.

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    #13
    Too bad, have not played for more than 3 wks now. Im a bit accustomed now to both sides h3 37. I just love the speed and spin on noth sides. The red one has a higher arc.
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ttarc
    What booster do you use? I get this when using paraffin/baby oil, lemon/orange oil (mostly Limonene which was also used in the speed glue days) or Seamoon. Just don't wait for the rubber to completely flatten after boosting 😉
    Falco Tempo. Thanks for the tips, very useful. I have 10 years old baby oil (baby & oil :-), half bottle, will try.

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    #15
    Seamoon booster is the best unless you are willing to spend more you can buy the Lido Black Oil booster.

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  16. Kuba Hajto is offline
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_bear
    Seamoon booster is the best unless you are willing to spend more you can buy the Lido Black Oil booster.

    For us, mere europeans, seamoon and falco are best value/performance/price/availability. I looked for black lidu and i didn't find a single sell offer on any orovider website (including aliexpress).

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto

    For us, mere europeans, seamoon and falco are best value/performance/price/availability. I looked for black lidu and i didn't find a single sell offer on any orovider website (including aliexpress).

    Maybe Dibutyl Sebacate is easier to buy here 😉 "It can be used for plastics in use in the food packaging industry, in plastics used for medical devices, and for pharmaceutical applications, e.g. as a plasticizer for film coating of tablets, beads, and granules.[2] It is also used as a lubricant in shaving lotions, and a flavoring additive in non-alcoholic beverages, ice cream, ices, candy, and baked goods" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dibutyl_sebacate
    and Yasaka once patented it for boosting https://patents.google.com/patent/JP2008049094A/en

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto

    For us, mere europeans, seamoon and falco are best value/performance/price/availability. I looked for black lidu and i didn't find a single sell offer on any orovider website (including aliexpress).

    It is a bit hard to find and more expensive. I think it is sold locally in China and need to have a native buy it for you.

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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_bear
    Too bad, have not played for more than 3 wks now. Im a bit accustomed now to both sides h3 37. I just love the speed and spin on noth sides. The red one has a higher arc.

    I am stilling loving h3 37 on backhand. However I find loop drive/kill harder to perform on the FH (with h3 37). Could be my technique or blade.

    I am trying H3 Provincial 39 (none Neo/ unboosted) on FH now. its a lot of work!

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    Last edited by virtuososiu; 02-28-2021 at 11:08 AM.

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by virtuososiu

    I am stilling loving h3 37 on backhand. However I find loop drive/kill harder to perform on the FH with h3 37. Could be my technique or blade.

    I do think that on FH, H3 is meant to be harder, minimum 38-39, otherwise it doesn't reach its optimal sponge/topsheet combination and it therefore lacks support.

    A blade like the Viscaria definitely provides a boost/support to my otherwise unboosted 38-40 commercial H3 Neo.

    Do you boost?

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    Last edited by thomas.pong; 02-28-2021 at 11:13 AM.

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