changing H3 NEO 37/ 2.15 to H3 NEO 40/2.15...........

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I suppose it's horses for courses to a certain extent!!
I quite liked the 37 degree H3 Neo Provincial on my BH, especially when boosted. The Neo sponge may play differently to the std H3 37 sponge.
I have tried std H3 40 degree boosted, and this played well on both BH & FH. After boosting, the 'dead' feel was replaced with a nice bounce of 5-6 bounces compared to 3 when doing the bounce test, tackiness was unaffected.
So maybe try boosting the Std H3 37 degree and give it a go!!

What hardness do you prefer most on BH (assuming boosted)?

I see you use Rakza Z and R48 too. Can you compare those to the H3 briefly? (I've used Rakza Z, but not R48).

What is your preferred BH rubber?
 
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Hi Latej,

At present my preferred BH rubber is Rakza Z or R48, probably Rakza Z over R48, but I'd be more than happy to use either!!
I use both of these in 2.0mm not max sponge thickness.
The R48 seems a little faster, feels slightly harder, even though the sponge is softer!! Strange, but that's the feedback I get. Especially when fine brush slow FH loops v backspin, the Rakza Z feels softer, but both have pretty soft thin top sheets.
I put R48 (FH & BH) on a Donic Dotec Ovtcharov off blade, Rakza Z on both a Nittaku Acoustic & Nittaku Acoustic Inner (FH & BH), which are also rated as off blades, the inner is slightly faster, for a similarly played FH topspin the ball travels about 200 to 300mm further, well that's my estimate!!
Both rubbers produce high spin levels, both have highish throw angles and are good for top spin openers v backspin.
Personally I think that the R48 really excels with drives and flatter hits, it's very crisp indeed. But it's still great for looping!!

H3 Neo Provincial 37 degree 2.15 mm sponge, boosted with 2 layers of Seamoon, sealed 1 layer revo no3 glue before booster applied. When gluing I applied 3 layers of glue to rubber and 2 to the blade, which is a BTY Maze Magic on BH side

So comparing the H3 Neo to the R48 and Rakza Z (RZ)
H3N felt great on BH, it felt like the ball was grabbed by the top sheet, felt like the ball 'sunk' into the top sheet!! Spin was great, speed not quite as quick as R48 or RZ, lower throw angle, kick better than both R48 & RZ, ball springs forward. Control at the table when blocking and pushing was good, as you'd expect with tacky rubbers, I would say that H3N and RZ are better (slightly) than R48 in this department, for faster crisp blocks the R48 has it!!
After boosting the H3N has more 'bounce' than RZ but less than R48 when you do the bounce test.
Now, after a couple of months the H3N has lost its boosted feel, still feels softer than 40deg H3N, bounce has returned to 3 or 4 bounces then stops dead!! Tackiness is still the same, H3N has more tackiness than RZ, but I think RZ looses some tackiness, straight out of the pack the RZ was similar 3 or 4 bounces then dead. R48 has no tackiness to speak of.

I think R48 and RZ are easier to play with away from the table when playing BH top spin and BH looping, I just have more confidence with these 2 over the H3N , RZ & R48 have 'easier' (some may say lazy!!) speed!!!
I like all 3 rubbers!! Could happily play with all 3, they are all great rubbers!! One thing I've learnt trying out different rubbers, it's pretty hard to find a really bad one!! At the end of the day it comes down to the players personal preferences!!

By the way DON'T IGNORE SKYLINE 3 PROVINCIAL BLUE SPONGE , there's another thread asking If skyline 2/3, TG2/3 is dead!! This is another great rubber, I put it on the Maze Magic alongside the H3N 37. Boosted in exactly the same way way as described above, it is basically faster with very similar attributes to the H3N, fantastic for fast FH loops, the other thing I noticed was that the boosting affect seemed to last longer, but this is likely because that's what Skyline rubbers are meant to do?? All I know is that when doing the bounce test (when the H3N boosting effect had worn off) I was expecting the Skyline to be similar, it wasn't 5 - 6 bounces, felt like a slightly muted new boost effect when looping!!
If I were to boost in future I would try Falco Long Term booster, 2 or 3 coats. Just because it lasts longer!!

 
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All I know is that when doing the bounce test (when the H3N boosting effect had worn off) I was expecting the Skyline to be similar, it wasn't 5 - 6 bounces, felt like a slightly muted new boost effect when looping!!


I asked this before but got no luck : How do you do the bounce test please ???????

I drop a ball from 40cm onto the blade that lies flat on the table..........................I leave the dust -protectors, on otherwise the ball just sticks to the rubber.
I have NOT yet boosted but all my H3, NEO or Standard bounce 5-6 times.
Of course they say that the NEos are factory boosted but they do not bounce more than the standard H3


 
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Hi Latej,

At present my preferred BH rubber is Rakza Z or R48, probably Rakza Z over R48, but I'd be more than happy to use either!!
I use both of these in 2.0mm not max sponge thickness.
The R48 seems a little faster, feels slightly harder, even though the sponge is softer!! Strange, but that's the feedback I get. Especially when fine brush slow FH loops v backspin, the Rakza Z feels softer, but both have pretty soft thin top sheets.
I put R48 (FH & BH) on a Donic Dotec Ovtcharov off blade, Rakza Z on both a Nittaku Acoustic & Nittaku Acoustic Inner (FH & BH), which are also rated as off blades, the inner is slightly faster, for a similarly played FH topspin the ball travels about 200 to 300mm further, well that's my estimate!!
Both rubbers produce high spin levels, both have highish throw angles and are good for top spin openers v backspin.
Personally I think that the R48 really excels with drives and flatter hits, it's very crisp indeed. But it's still great for looping!!

Hi IB66,

this is a great read, thanks. R48 seems to be highly valued, so the comparison is very interesting.

H3 Neo Provincial 37 degree 2.15 mm sponge, boosted with 2 layers of Seamoon, sealed 1 layer revo no3 glue before booster applied. When gluing I applied 3 layers of glue to rubber and 2 to the blade, which is a BTY Maze Magic on BH side

So comparing the H3 Neo to the R48 and Rakza Z (RZ)
H3N felt great on BH, it felt like the ball was grabbed by the top sheet, felt like the ball 'sunk' into the top sheet!! Spin was great, speed not quite as quick as R48 or RZ, lower throw angle, kick better than both R48 & RZ, ball springs forward. Control at the table when blocking and pushing was good, as you'd expect with tacky rubbers, I would say that H3N and RZ are better (slightly) than R48 in this department, for faster crisp blocks the R48 has it!!
After boosting the H3N has more 'bounce' than RZ but less than R48 when you do the bounce test.
Now, after a couple of months the H3N has lost its boosted feel, still feels softer than 40deg H3N, bounce has returned to 3 or 4 bounces then stops dead!! Tackiness is still the same, H3N has more tackiness than RZ, but I think RZ looses some tackiness, straight out of the pack the RZ was similar 3 or 4 bounces then dead. R48 has no tackiness to speak of.

H37 opening loop feels indeed good, this "sinking". I thought that in BH to BH drive rally against "tenergies" the H37 would be in disadvantage, but it is to be seen. I also noticed that it responds when you give the impuls, so I don't worry about the rally much.

Yes, I noticed too that RZ loses the tackiness and becomes bouncier. I noticed that on C1/C2 even more, but that is most likely because I used them longer.

I think R48 and RZ are easier to play with away from the table when playing BH top spin and BH looping, I just have more confidence with these 2 over the H3N , RZ & R48 have 'easier' (some may say lazy!!) speed!!!
I like all 3 rubbers!! Could happily play with all 3, they are all great rubbers!! One thing I've learnt trying out different rubbers, it's pretty hard to find a really bad one!! At the end of the day it comes down to the players personal preferences!!

In one of previous post you mentioned you used H40 on BH and it was OK. Did you use H38 and H39 on BH too? So far I take it you prefer hardness H37 most of those on BH, right?

By the way DON'T IGNORE SKYLINE 3 PROVINCIAL BLUE SPONGE , there's another thread asking If skyline 2/3, TG2/3 is dead!! This is another great rubber, I put it on the Maze Magic alongside the H3N 37. Boosted in exactly the same way way as described above, it is basically faster with very similar attributes to the H3N, fantastic for fast FH loops, the other thing I noticed was that the boosting affect seemed to last longer, but this is likely because that's what Skyline rubbers are meant to do?? All I know is that when doing the bounce test (when the H3N boosting effect had worn off) I was expecting the Skyline to be similar, it wasn't 5 - 6 bounces, felt like a slightly muted new boost effect when looping!!
If I were to boost in future I would try Falco Long Term booster, 2 or 3 coats. Just because it lasts longer!!

Yeah, I noticed that thread. Will keep in mind. For FH I think I'm set for the moment, still things to explore with H3/H3N. And for BH I too want to get what I can from it.

I'm using Falco Tempo Long, but can't compare with Seamoon.
 
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latej;339111Hi IB66,

this is a great read, thanks. R48 seems to be highly valued, so the comparison is very interesting.



H37 opening loop feels indeed good, this "sinking". I thought that in BH to BH drive rally against "tenergies" the H37 would be in disadvantage, but it is to be seen. I also noticed that it responds when you give the impuls, so I don't worry about the rally much.

Yes, I noticed too that RZ loses the tackiness and becomes bouncier. I noticed that on C1/C2 even more, but that is most likely because I used them longer.



In one of previous post you mentioned you used H40 on BH and it was OK. Did you use H38 and H39 on BH too? So far I take it you prefer hardness H37 most of those on BH, right?



Yeah, I noticed that thread. Will keep in mind. For FH I think I'm set for the moment, still things to explore with H3/H3N. And for BH I too want to get what I can from it.

I'm using Falco Tempo Long, but can't compare with Seamoon.
Hi Latej,

I'd choose the 37 degree hardness H3Neo for BH, but definitely boosted!! Un-boosted still plays well but not a fast, feels slightly harder.
The only Tenergy rubber I've used is T80FX and even though the sponge is relatively soft, I didn't like the bouncy spring sponge!! Found it harder to control. H3N 37 may not be as quick as Ten05 etc, but each has its Pros and Cons!! H3N will still be fast enough!!
D09C was easier to play with, due to the slight tackiness, this is another great rubber for BH.
40 degree H3N provincial was fine on BH, but then again so is Golden Tango, which has a pretty hard sponge. Preferred the GT to GT PS in fact!!
H8 could also be a BH option, I've used H8 mainly on FH but I think it would play similarly to H3N 40deg.
I did try H3-50 on backhand but didn't enjoy this rubber!!
 
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Of course I did buy the Neo 37 for my BH but got no joy out of it at all and ended up using it on my FH
This of course must be do to the fact that I have very little skills and bad technique.....................I concede that.

I did play the 37 neo on my handmade blade last night at the club , having swapped it over from my Butterfly ALC.
This confirmed my suspicions : I played now better with the blade that had the harder rubber and worse with the one that had the 37, a complete reversal.

So then you "Speed-merchants" 😁 FS one slightly used NEO 37 / 2.15 oh, and a bottle of Seamoon.

I now retire from my post as I feel I got my answers and I hate to intrude into what seems to be developing into
a loverly glowing relationship between latej and IB66
 
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Of course I did buy the Neo 37 for my BH but got no joy out of it at all and ended up using it on my FH
This of course must be do to the fact that I have very little skills and bad technique.....................I concede that.

I did play the 37 neo on my handmade blade last night at the club , having swapped it over from my Butterfly ALC.
This confirmed my suspicions : I played now better with the blade that had the harder rubber and worse with the one that had the 37, a complete reversal.

So then you "Speed-merchants" 😁 FS one slightly used NEO 37 / 2.15 oh, and a bottle of Seamoon.

I couldn't decipher why you didn't like H37 on BH, so I'm curious whether the booster will answer or deepen that mystery :) When you are at it, what about the H40 :)

I now retire from my post as I feel I got my answers and I hate to intrude into what seems to be developing into
a loverly glowing relationship between latej and IB66

:) Sincere apologies, it is your thread. I couldn't resist asking. But it was short intermezzo, my hunger is satisfied. On my defense, I did hope that such comparison can be interesting for you too, because if you leave H3/H3N then hybrids like Rakza Z are imo closer to them than classic ESN non-tacky rubbers.
 
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no need to apologize ,it is all done and said with with tongue firmly in cheek. I would have loved to post more laughing emoji but
the new website only gives me 1.........................then it shits itself.

I got the obviously softer sponge 37 neo because I was informed that it is good to have a softer rubber on the backhand.
This will only work if one has the techniques and skills to handle the softer rubber. If one lacks in this department (and I do)
The softer rubber will "deal to the ball" before the player has a chance to deal to it him/herself. The "trampoline-effect is too much .
Also I was not aware that the NEOs were "factory boosted.

As for the 40 NEO , I can cope with it just fine.

A lot of players have dismissed the Hurricane H3 and even the NEOs as being too slow.
While this might well be the case for the real good TT-players , I never felt I had not enough speed and if I would,
it is because i am not able to generate the speed myself.

I had a Razkza once but can now not remember which one. I also had a Revolution MS.-..something..................could not handle them either :)

All good ..............................................and here comes my only permitted emoji 😁
 
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It's really funny to see many people using H3 37° on their BH since Ma Long and several CNT players use it 😂
Even if it's 37° it is still hard to use for 90% of players, it's a demanding rubber, your BH skill must be excellent to use this rubber at its full potential.
 
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davidzhang;339213It's really funny to see many people using H3 37° on their BH since Ma Long and several CNT players use it 😂
Even if it's 37° it is still hard to use for 90% of players, it's a demanding rubber, your BH skill must be excellent to use this rubber at its full potential.


Well, I would not go as far as call it ""funny"".
In my case I would go as far as calling it a misunderstanding and maybe also a bit of having been mislead..
No problem. For me the whole Table tennis is just a big experiment anyway.
The fact that you suggest the 37 being hard to use for 90% of players makes me feel reeeeeeeaaaaaal great. (not)

Summing up: Neither my BH- nor my FH-skills are excellent.............and they will never be.
Softer rubbers seem to be more difficult to control and play accurate than harder rubbers

There see, i learned something and who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks 😊

 
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lodro;339215


Well, I would not go as far as call it ""funny"".
In my case I would go as far as calling it a misunderstanding and maybe also a bit of having been mislead..
No problem. For me the whole Table tennis is just a big experiment anyway.
The fact that you suggest the 37 being hard to use for 90% of players makes me feel reeeeeeeaaaaaal great. (not)

Summing up: Neither my BH- nor my FH-skills are excellent.............and they will never be.
Softer rubbers seem to be more difficult to control and play accurate than harder rubbers

There see, i learned something and who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks 😊

My comment wasn't targeting you, it was more a global observation ^^
Just funny to see the power of marketing/branding :)
Chinese rubbers such as H3 are made for people who can generate their own power (the power of your shot comes mainly from your legs, hip/shoulders rotation + mastering the relax before/fingers pressures at ball impact).
When I started TT in China, the coach made me a blade with an all-wood blade +H2/G666, it was a "slow" blade but now I can play with a proper technique and can hit the ball hard with confidence.
I remember some of my friends in EU wanted to play with H3 on their forehand, they did good at training because there is no pressure but during matches they couldn't use H3 at its full potential and they play in reality better with tensors rubbers (easy power/spin and forgiving).

 
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My comment wasn't targeting you, it was more a global observation ^^
Just funny to see the power of marketing/branding :)
Chinese rubbers such as H3 are made for people who can generate their own power (the power of your shot comes mainly from your legs, hip/shoulders rotation + mastering the relax before/fingers pressures at ball impact).
When I started TT in China, the coach made me a blade with an all-wood blade +H2/G666, it was a "slow" blade but now I can play with a proper technique and can hit the ball hard with confidence.
I remember some of my friends in EU wanted to play with H3 on their forehand, they did good at training because there is no pressure but during matches they couldn't use H3 at its full potential and they play in reality better with tensors rubbers (easy power/spin and forgiving).


No problemo !
I did not feel personally attacked at all. I am definitely smart enough to know that I should never measure myself against Ma Long 😁
I am a very mediocre player, played a short time in the early 80s and started again 3 years ago. I never had a coach and I am just happy to be able to hit a ball.
I am in my 70s , I like Table Tennis , not just the playing but also the technology involved in the manufacturing of the blades, the rubbers etc.

I do not hit the ball hard and who knows what in the end would be the perfect blade-rubber combo for me. I will discard the 37 and replace it with a 39, this will give me 2 good setups I can comfortably play with. I will use the Butterfly when I play singles games and "My hammer" when I play doubles.

Thanking you kindly for your input
lodro

P.S I assume the photo in your Avatar is your sister otherwise you are a very pretty David 🤣🤣🤣

 
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lodro;339225


No problemo !
I did not feel personally attacked at all. I am definitely smart enough to know that I should never measure myself against Ma Long 😁
I am a very mediocre player, played a short time in the early 80s and started again 3 years ago. I never had a coach and I am just happy to be able to hit a ball.
I am in my 70s , I like Table Tennis , not just the playing but also the technology involved in the manufacturing of the blades, the rubbers etc.

I do not hit the ball hard and who knows what in the end would be the perfect blade-rubber combo for me. I will discard the 37 and replace it with a 39, this will give me 2 good setups I can comfortably play with. I will use the Butterfly when I play singles games and "My hammer" when I play doubles.

Thanking you kindly for your input
lodro

P.S I assume the photo in your Avatar is your sister otherwise you are a very pretty David 🤣🤣🤣

Happy to read that you are still enjoying playing TT :)
By the way I'm using H3 on my forehand too but I use booster on it, the feeling is really different between boosted and non-boosted.

 
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The 37 H3 is better for a player who have the ability to properly brush the ball especially in the backhand. It is easier to block if boosted compared to other harder versions. It is still no as fast compared to newer euro rubbers today but the speed is already bouncy and fast. The challenge in using the h37 in the bh is that you would need to adjust your swings and contact when receiving soinny serves since it cam easily pick up underspin serves with a semi closed angle.
 
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The 37 H3 is better for a player who have the ability to properly brush the ball especially in the backhand. It is easier to block if boosted compared to other harder versions. It is still no as fast compared to newer euro rubbers today but the speed is already bouncy and fast. The challenge in using the h37 in the bh is that you would need to adjust your swings and contact when receiving soinny serves since it cam easily pick up underspin serves with a semi closed angle.


Thanks for this very useful info. I will try the 37 on the BH again on Sunday using the club robot.
I can do a real nasty BH-flick but against under spin serves only if they are long. I have seen some of the
top pro players returning under-spin serves with a BH-flick and I would love to be able to do that.
maybe there is a tiny little bit of Fan Zendong in me ????????🤣

 
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when you boost the normal H3 will it become like a NEO ?????

If you try to use boosters, buy the normal version and boost it :)
I would recommend Haifu Seamoon, it is a Chinese booster and it works very well on Hurricanes rubbers.
It will expand the sponge and you will clearly see a different structure, believe me it is so enjoyable to play with it, and the sound 😍

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