Double short pips

Hello,
sometime ago i watched videos of some player called maxim or so who played both sides short pips.

I found this cool and would like to try this as well.

I think it would fit because i am early at the ball and yeah😅

Now i don’t know which blade and rubbers.
If i remember correct balsa carbon is good for short pips.
But which short pips is another question. Something with more grip on the forehand so i can still topspin i guess but i don’t know.

I hope you can help me.

It is easy to use short pimple since it is insensitive to spin but also much less margin for error compared to inverted so the style is very difficult. I think you need to practice alot if you want to play offensiv with double short pimples. If you have inverted now maybe it would be easier to start with short pimples on one side first too learn that then put short pimple on the other side aswell later. Then you only need one rubber and can try it on both sides.

I think it would be easiest with any 7 ply all wood blade and a soft short pimple with grip. I use Victas vo 102 now and like it. Have tried alot of short pimples. I think you can use carbon blade as well for short pimple. What do you have at home?

Originally Posted by Kinay

Hello,
sometime ago i watched videos of some player called maxim or so who played both sides short pips.

I found this cool and would like to try this as well.

I think it would fit because i am early at the ball and yeah😅

Now i don’t know which blade and rubbers.
If i remember correct balsa carbon is good for short pips.
But which short pips is another question. Something with more grip on the forehand so i can still topspin i guess but i don’t know.

I hope you can help me.

I used to regularly play against a lady who played 2* SPs, it's a good setup until one faces opponents who have a good variation. For me good strategy playing against that kind of player is to push long and fast if the opponent does not net, then top spin deep and low. Most of SP I played had some issues with returning not powerful, but spinny balls that were deep and low.

If I remember correctly, former Canadian player Johnny Huang used short pips on both sides.

Originally Posted by Lula

It is easy to use short pimple since it is insensitive to spin but also much less margin for error compared to inverted so the style is very difficult. I think you need to practice alot if you want to play offensiv with double short pimples. If you have inverted now maybe it would be easier to start with short pimples on one side first too learn that then put short pimple on the other side aswell later. Then you only need one rubber and can try it on both sides.

I think it would be easiest with any 7 ply all wood blade and a soft short pimple with grip. I use Victas vo 102 now and like it. Have tried alot of short pimples. I think you can use carbon blade as well for short pimple. What do you have at home?

Yea, try one side first and see how you like it and get used to it. You might even like the huge amount of variations you get from playing inverted on one side and short pips on the other, especially if you learn how to twiddle (rotate the paddle around), makes for a very unpredictable game.

Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto

I used to regularly play against a lady who played 2* SPs, it's a good setup until one faces opponents who have a good variation. For me good strategy playing against that kind of player is to push long and fast if the opponent does not net, then top spin deep and low. Most of SP I played had some issues with returning not powerful, but spinny balls that were deep and low.

Exactly!

i already played with one pip on forehand and backhand and it was okay. it was the waran. i liked it more on forehand because i can topspin with it. this was on an waldner allplay. backhand rubber was i guess vega europe at this time.

the two short pips would be first for fun and if i like it and it works i would see.
i can twiddle this is no problem and yeah

I believe waran is pretty good But you should try a faster blade.

Otilia Badescu of Romania played with short pips on both sides. She's more successful than the current generation of Romania girls, even winning a singles bronze in 1993. Here's a match of her playing against Tamara Boros at the 2003 wttc quarterfinals. Gives you and idea of how to handle strong spins with a style like this.

https://youtu.be/19c5TcjcENY

IMO I would never play with double pips because when you're off your game, nothing will ever land and it makes for supee frustrating play. With one side inverted you can still rally with the smooth side if your pips aren't working on a particular day.

Originally Posted by windysummer1

If I remember correctly, former Canadian player Johnny Huang used short pips on both sides.

Yep, he was probably one of the best two sided dips players ever. Defeate Waldner at the Olympics. There are some great youtube videos of him playing if your want to see how that style works, though it was with the 38 mm ball.

Originally Posted by Lula

I believe waran is pretty good But you should try a faster blade.

It was not bad. But why should i try a faster blade? i will lose control i guess. And with rubbers i can go max first and then upgrade to waran 2 which is harder and vega asia or pro or am i wrong?
would be a faster blade better than my thought. i have a boll alc and xiom offensive s at home.

Originally Posted by Kinay

It was not bad. But why should i try a faster blade? i will lose control i guess. And with rubbers i can go max first and then upgrade to waran 2 which is harder and vega asia or pro or am i wrong?
would be a faster blade better than my thought. i have a boll alc and xiom offensive s at home.

This is all leading us back to your original post and questions, which many people answered by recommending a stiffer blade for short pips...

The blade is the base, so in the case of short pips, the best base is a stiff blade, 7-ply all-wood or a 5+2 carbon. Better to solidify your base than to increase a less predictable element, rubbers (especially in the case of pips, different pips can really act very differently, sponge thickness can modify many elements too).

It depends what style of play you're trying to achieve with your short pips in the end, more passive blocks (then a soft blade like your Allplay is fine if it works for you), or a aggressive style made mostly of strong hits/blocks and some topspins (pips allowing). You could try your pips on your Offensive S, though 5-ply it's thicker/stiffer than Allplay, and already feel a difference, and on your Boll ALC and get an idea of why Mima Ito chooses a flexible 5+2 blade for her SP and what it takes to play like her.

i would play them on forehand so more like falck 😀

yeah i have to test and see after the lockdown.
i liked them (waren) on the allplay in 1,8 if i renner correctly. in my class it is about control more than anything.

Originally Posted by Kinay

i would play them on forehand so more like falck 😀

yeah i have to test and see after the lockdown.
i liked them (waren) on the allplay in 1,8 if i renner correctly. in my class it is about control more than anything.

You gotta do what works for you.

But if you want to elevate your play with SP on FH like Falck, it is about power, not just technique. Stiffer doesn't necessarily mean less control with SP.

Feel like with short pimple rubber you can not really win from spin, you win from pace and power. Softer blade often hold the ball longer and have higher arc which is good for a spin based game. A blade that is harder will make it easier to play hard and with high pace beause the ball leaves the racket faster and with a lower arc.
Of course this depends a bit on how far away you want to play but need to play pretty close to be able to take the ball at the highest point. I am trying 5-ply Yasaka goiabao 5 at the moment to see how slow blade i can play with. It works okey since it is pretty hard but much easier to smash with faster blade.

Also depend what you focus on: harder and faster will make it easier to smash but harder to loop and vice versa.

I think that if you use short pimple on forehand with Waldner Allplay you do not really give the short pimple play any real chance. I think you should try your ALC blade. Atleast then you have really tried it for real.

Originally Posted by Lula

Feel like with short pimple rubber you can not really win from spin, you win from pace and power. Softer blade often hold the ball longer and have higher arc which is good for a spin based game. A blade that is harder will make it easier to play hard and with high pace beause the ball leaves the racket faster and with a lower arc.
Of course this depends a bit on how far away you want to play but need to play pretty close to be able to take the ball at the highest point. I am trying 5-ply Yasaka goiabao 5 at the moment to see how slow blade i can play with. It works okey since it is pretty hard but much easier to smash with faster blade.

Also depend what you focus on: harder and faster will make it easier to smash but harder to loop and vice versa.

I think that if you use short pimple on forehand with Waldner Allplay you do not really give the short pimple play any real chance. I think you should try your ALC blade. Atleast then you have really tried it for real.

Yes all that, fast pace and power are the force of SP along with accurate sharp ball placement, whether it's hits or blocks. Spins are harder to generate and usually much slower than with inverted.

But if i use the alc i will lose something with the inverted rubber.
i have to see after covid. maybe in 2 month i change my mind again😅

You should really try a stiffer blade. From Waldner All play the next step would be a waldner sensor carbon (all play with Carbon Layers). It is just a little faster and still has good feeling.

It will increase the consistency in your short pimple shots by alot.

Also for modern Pips with Tensor effect like Waran, you will lose the little bit of disruption (störeffekt) when going for thick sponges.

Originally Posted by Kinay

But if i use the alc i will lose something with the inverted rubber.
i have to see after covid. maybe in 2 month i change my mind again😅

Well no, the TB ALC is very flexible and excellent with inverted, so I don't know what you would lose by having inverted/SP or double SP on it... unless you can't control this blade with inverted.

Anyway, it seems like you're asking us a lot of questions, but you already have your own answers...