Advantages tacky hybird rubbers

Originally Posted by Kinay

Not soft like vega europe. but a little easier to play than 50 degree.
What of the rubbers above has the softest feeling or is the easiest to use of them?

Get Jupiter 2 38 deg, it should be somewhere between 47.5 and 50 degrees. It's like 10$. Big Dipper is also like 14$. If you won't like them (Big Dipper is easier to use) you won't like any of the expensive shiny guns.

Unless you play with a certain type of gear for an extended period of time, you will not be able to judge it, since you need to adapt your stroke to the gear. If you don't want that type of setback don't change gear. There is a high probability that you will not like a type of gear you don't know how to use it.

Originally Posted by latej

Yasaka Rising Dragon and Shining Dragon are hybrids with softer sponges. I don't have precise numbers but I think Rising Dragon is around 48 and Shining Dragon around 46. I played with Rising shortly, it has big spin potential.

Don't worry about the hardness only. I was often told that it is the harder rubbers that are harder to control, because they are faster. And ultimately, I think it's correct. But it so happened, that the different people who told it to me, didn't distinguish much between bouncy sponges and less or non-bouncy sponges. So, I could say e.g. Razanter R53 is too hard for me, but I should say, it is too bouncy or advanced for me to control. But e.g. Bluegrip C1/C2, which are harder on paper (ESN 60/55) were not.

Yea Rising Dragon is 47 to 52 degrees (49.5 average) and Shining Dragon is 45 to 50 (47.5 average).

Sponge hardness matters to some point but the topsheet hardness, overall feel and bouncyness are just as if not more important. Many rubbers can feel harder or softer than their sponge seems to indicate. In the case of traditional Chinese rubbers, their topsheet and sponge are so different than Euro/Japanese ones that comparing them based on their overall hardness alone is not an accurate comparison, they're so different. Even though my H3 Neo is 49 to 53 degrees ESN/Shore O, it certainly doesn't feel like it to me (feels more like 45-47).

Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto

Get Jupiter 2 38 deg, it should be somewhere between 47.5 and 50 degrees. It's like 10$. Big Dipper is also like 14$. If you won't like them (Big Dipper is easier to use) you won't like any of the expensive shiny guns.

Unless you play with a certain type of gear for an extended period of time, you will not be able to judge it, since you need to adapt your stroke to the gear. If you don't want that type of setback don't change gear. There is a high probability that you will not like a type of gear you don't know how to use it.

Yep! I think part of engaging that particular type of gear is a lot of wrist use on FH.

Originally Posted by thomas.pong

Yep! I think part of engaging that particular type of gear is a lot of wrist use on FH.

My experience is quite different than that. I am recovering from a wrist injury and I try to limit its usage for now. It is quite difficult to explain. For me the biggest difference is on focusing what I am trying achieve. I focus on brushing the ball and not hitting the ball.

Originally Posted by thomas.pong

Yea Rising Dragon is 47 to 52 degrees (49.5 average) and Shining Dragon is 45 to 50 (47.5 average).

Yeah, it's possible. I can only say that Rising dragon felt softer than Rakza Z.

Originally Posted by thomas.pong

Sponge hardness matters to some point but the topsheet hardness, overall feel and bouncyness are just as if not more important. Many rubbers can feel harder or softer than their sponge seems to indicate. In the case of traditional Chinese rubbers, their topsheet and sponge are so different than Euro/Japanese ones that comparing them based on their overall hardness alone is not an accurate comparison, they're so different. Even though my H3 Neo is 49 to 53 degrees ESN/Shore O, it certainly doesn't feel like it to me (feels more like 45-47).

Absolutely. Top-sheet matters. The whole combo matters. I wrote it mainly to counter that fear of hard rubbers (>= 50)...

Originally Posted by Kinay

Are there hybrid rubbers with 47,5 degree sponge?

If i remember correctly all of them have 50 degree and more. I guess this is to hard for me that’s why i asking for a softer one.

Give it a bit of time. You’ll get used to it. I changed from Fastarc G-1 to Rakza Z on the backhand and it was a pain in the first couple of months but then I found out what’s got to be changed in the stroke. I was surprised that I killed a lot of balls by simply opening. Just be a bit more comfy in digging into the ball, you’ll be good.

Originally Posted by thomas.pong

Yep! I think part of engaging that particular type of gear is a lot of wrist use on FH.

Not enough at all: it's all about hips rotation, shoulder, upper body rotation, the wrist does not bring enough force. Europeans are lazy loopers, that's why they need bouncier tensor rubbers, that's why they were at the top of the world when it was 38mm cell ball with speed glue.

Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto

My experience is quite different than that. I am recovering from a wrist injury and I try to limit its usage for now. It is quite difficult to explain. For me the biggest difference is on focusing what I am trying achieve. I focus on brushing the ball and not hitting the ball.

I'm sorry to hear about your wrist injury, I wish you a speedy recovery.

I think a lot of spin can be generated on FH without use of the wrist regardless of the types of rubbers you are using, and a Chinese tacky rubber will force you to use your body more in order to generate speed and spin regardless. On BH, the wrist is more necessary to generate spin, how are you coping with that at the moment?

I'm also focusing on brushing the ball rather hitting it right now, definitely takes a lot of focus. For me, the wrist can help with that on FH when playing with a Chinese rubber, but I think it ultimately helps more with adding speed to the brush.

Originally Posted by latej

Yeah, it's possible. I can only say that Rising dragon felt softer than Rakza Z.



Absolutely. Top-sheet matters. The whole combo matters. I wrote it mainly to counter that fear of hard rubbers (>= 50)...

Oh yeah, I totally got what you were getting at. I was adding the exact sponge hardness of the 2 rubbers, then agreeing with you and adding more to support your point.

Here's Yasaka listing the hardness of these 2 rubbers:

https://www.yasakajp.com/items/shining-dragon/
https://www.yasakajp.com/items/rising-dragon/

Originally Posted by thomas.pong

I'm sorry to hear about your wrist injury, I wish you a speedy recovery.

I think a lot of spin can be generated on FH without use of the wrist regardless of the types of rubbers you are using, and a Chinese tacky rubber will force you to use your body more in order to generate speed and spin regardless. On BH, the wrist is more necessary to generate spin, how are you coping with that at the moment?

I'm also focusing on brushing the ball rather hitting it right now, definitely takes a lot of focus. For me, the wrist can help with that on FH when playing with a Chinese rubber, but I think it ultimately helps more with adding speed to the brush.

I worded it a bit incorrectly. I had damaged muscles and tendons (sry I am bad at physiology and anatomy, in Polish it is "ścięgno zginacz nadgarstka") that are attached to the wrist and it hurt when I moved the wrist. I am just very slowly easing back, not using muscles to move the wrist. I think the positive side of this negative event is that I was forced to use the body more. At this point I am just having fun and regaining agility and making the boll to the other side of the table.