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  1. thomas.pong is offline
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    #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto

    You forgot Gewo El Pro, in my country they are about 25-30€
    Evolution series is about 35-40€ (my club has a discount, coach is/used to be Tibhar player)
    OVIIPro 35€, Euro 40€, Tour 50€, Asia 35€

    Yea, with other brands/stores, discounts can always be had, 20-25% minimum:

    G1/C1 30€, Rakzas 32€, Xiom Vegas 30€, Evolutions 35€, H3 16€... best bangs for your buck.

  2. Lazer is online now
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    #62
    Quote Originally Posted by thomas.pong
    Ok, but there are no rubber comparable to Dignics 09C yet.

    Rakza Z and PK50 are good, but nowhere close.

    Maybe a boosted H3 National Blue Sponge?
    I have not tried Dignics yet but there’s no way it’s that good.

    I don’t like stickies..., And I don’t want to bother with boosting, it’s a pain.

    Im perfectly happy with my rakza7’s for now. But that doesn’t stop me from thinking something is wrong in this industry...

  3. thomas.pong is offline
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    #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    I have not tried Dignics yet but there’s no way it’s that good.

    I don’t like stickies..., And I don’t want to bother with boosting, it’s a pain.

    Im perfectly happy with my rakza7’s for now. But that doesn’t stop me from thinking something is wrong in this industry...
    Dignics 05/80/64 are very good and durable, overall better than 50-55 degrees from other brands, but not by THAT much, I agree. I'm not willing to pay 72€ for those, also they're too hard for me for my BH, and I'm very happy with commercial H3 on my FH at the moment. But I can understand people paying 80-95€ for them.

    Dignics 09C is a different story when compared to Rakza Z, PK50 etc. I could potentially see myself spend 72€ on it, but when H3 costs me 16€, my choice is quickly made.

    The Tenergy, Fastarc and Rakza series remain my favorites overall (and H3), although Tenergys have something extra/special to them. I could be happy playing with G1, C1 or R7 on my BH, or FH for that matter, I have sheets of them laying around that I use for testing from time to time, and their quality always make them a strong contender when I don't want something bouncy.
    Last edited by thomas.pong; 1 Week Ago at 08:52 PM.

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    #64
    A small amount to ESN for producing the rubber, a small amount to the company that ordered the rubber from ESN and advertises it (Stiga, Tibhar, Donic…..), a small amount to the store that sells the rubber and a small amount of VAT.

    I have no numbers, but let´s assume
    ESN: 10 €
    Company/Brand:10€
    Store: 20€ (10€ if on sale)
    VAT: 10€
    SUM: 50€ (40€ if on sale)
    Last edited by SamTheMan; 1 Week Ago at 09:04 PM.

  5. Lazer is online now
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    #65
    I can not see myself paying that price for consumables. Even the €30 I paid for my latest batch of Rakza was steep. Most of my blades except for my Bty’s costs less than 2 sheets of those.

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    #66
    Women are not cheaper at all 🙄

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  7. thomas.pong is offline
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    #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    I can not see myself paying that price for consumables. Even the €30 I paid for my latest batch of Rakza was steep. Most of my blades except for my Bty’s costs less than 2 sheets of those.
    There are non-sticky Chinese options as others have pointed out. They can direct you in the right direction for something similar to Rakza 7 Soft.

  8. lodro is offline
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    #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    I have not tried Dignics yet but there’s no way it’s that good.

    I don’t like stickies..., And I don’t want to bother with boosting, it’s a pain.

    Im perfectly happy with my rakza7’s for now. But that doesn’t stop me from thinking something is wrong in this industry...


    There is nothing wrong with the industry. Actually, the industry is doing very well indeed and it is all because of the fools (myself included)
    that are either EJ or compulsive buyers 😁

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  9. Lazer is online now
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    #69
    I asked for this earlier in this thread but no ones answered yet (I think).

  10. Kuba Hajto is offline
    says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
     
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    #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    I asked for this earlier in this thread but no ones answered yet (I think).

    What have you asked and no one replied?


  11. latej is offline
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    #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    I can not see myself paying that price for consumables. Even the €30 I paid for my latest batch of Rakza was steep. Most of my blades except for my Bty’s costs less than 2 sheets of those.
    Why not try AK47 Blue as Kuba suggested? 9,5 EUR on Ali, sponge hardness 38-40.

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  12. Kuba Hajto is offline
    says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
     
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    #72
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    Why not try AK47 Blue as Kuba suggested? 9,5 EUR on Ali, sponge hardness 38-40.

    It is 729 degrees though not shore O (as one of the users of this forum told me). Blue should be about 42-43 ESN scale, yellow 45 ESN, Red 47-48 ESN. So Rakza 7 soft should be as hard as blue, 7 as hard as red. Although rubber feels very similar overall (I've played with 3-4 rackets with Blue and yellow, not had opportunity to try red), it has different top sheet than rakza. Ak47 has NON-sticky matte topsheet while rakzas I used had glossy.

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    Last edited by Kuba Hajto; 1 Week Ago at 09:24 PM.

  13. Lazer is online now
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    #73
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro


    There is nothing wrong with the industry. Actually, the industry is doing very well indeed and it is all because of the fools (myself included)
    that are either EJ or compulsive buyers 😁

    I was too that’s what pisses me off. After a 45 yrs brake I got what I used to play with Sriver what a let down that was, then I “upgraded” to Rozena that was a rip-off too.
    That’s when I gave up on Bty Rubbers...

  14. lodro is offline
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    #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    I was too that’s what pisses me off. After a 45 yrs brake I got what I used to play with Sriver what a let down that was, then I “upgraded” to Rozena that was a rip-off too.
    That’s when I gave up on Bty Rubbers...


    We are in the same, or similar boat my friend.
    I played a bit in the early 80s then stopped playing . I was never much good though, unlike yourself.
    When i started 3 years ago , I remembered I did have Sriver rubbers on my old bat and as it was a "readymade bat" it might even have been a Butterfly, a cheap one. I also remembered that it had ""attack"" written on the blade, so I bought a Joola Rossi attack, again a "madeup" blade.
    Now, 10 blades and about 20 rubber later I think I am settling down.
    Unlike yourself, I can not play with the catapult -trampoline -tensor rubbers and .............lucky me........I am happy with Hurricanes 3
    p.S I have now started to make my own blade, copying the Innerforce ALC so at least I won't have to waste anymore money there😊

    all the best
    lodro
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  15. brokenball is offline
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    #75
    Rubbers are expensive because people are willing to pay the price. It is that simple.
    The raw material that goes into a rubber is nothing compared to the final cost.
    A pound of rubber will make how many top sheets?
    All of you complaining about the cost of rubber are complaining about the wrong thing.

    Manufacturing labor costs are not that much either. Usually the people that run the injection molding machines are not paid that much.

    The real costs are in the research, making the molds, buying the machines and marketing. However, the machines that make the rubber can be easily modified to make many different types of rubber or sponges.

    The Japanese are fanatical about quality control. This goes back over 50+ years.
    http://www.qfdi.org/newsletters/deming_in_japan.html

    I don't see any magic in making top sheets. Making the mold is expensive but I bet the part where the pips are us pretty much the same from top sheet to top sheet. Only the label needs to be redone and this is easy with modern CNC machines. I have a mechanical engineer working for me that said I could buy a solid sheet of super ball type rubber that would be hard and bounce but not legal for cheap.

    I think the hard part is making the sponge. Making a consistent sponge cant be easy. Even TSP sells rubbers with a thickness tolerance. The bubbles must be a consistence size throughout the sponge.

    Zeio, the US subsidizes the costs of a lot of products. Notice that our prices for T05 are higher than other country's prices. The same goes for drugs and other products. That is because the US is where the money is. However, in the case of TT rubber, there aren't as many TT players per million as there are in other countries. I don't think we are guilty of anything except having too much money because the ratio of what we make to the cost of goods is relatively low even if the price of good is high. It is not hard to find YouTube videos where people complain that ALMOST everything is more expensive in the US but each item is a lower percentage of the average take home pay.

    BTW, there are shortages on a lot of things how due to the CCP-virus. Car manufacturers are having a hard time getting electronic parts. My company is also having a hard time getting electronic parts. Lead times are as long as 6 months. My company is just a just in time company. I am sure the just in time companies are suffering big time now.
    So go back to the beginning. The TT manufacturers will charge what the market will bear.
















    .

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  16. Der_Echte is online now
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    #76
    Ones one who complain and want lower prices could refuse to buy those rubbers at the prices they object to... and wait for the prices to come down when THEY cannot sell them at thos terrible high prices... it is called freedom of choice... or these complainers could have a shot at design/research/manufacture/distribute slash run a business and have fixed and variable expenses rubbers and see how inexpensive you can sell them and not go out of business in a few months or years. That is entreprenuial spirit and business risk market sense sink or swim.

    Those who complain and seem to want a Marxist style govt mandated price controls can look at how well that works in the history of Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea etc... and look no further than Venesuela on how govt price controls work.Since there have been some people actually TRY to go into business with such an attitude, none of them kept this attitude very long or stayed in business very long... and it certainly wasn't because of some nonsense, but good sounding reason like systemic racism in the industry keeping those spirited folk down.

    There are very good business reasons why there is no major USA maker of TT rubbers, despite having the world's largest amount of business minded risk takers. Ever wonder why?

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    Last edited by Der_Echte; 1 Week Ago at 11:57 PM.
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  17. lodro is offline
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    #77

    """""""There are very good business reasons why there is no major USA maker of TT rubbers, despite having the world's largest amount of business minded risk takers. Ever wonder why? """""""

    I never wondered why - but i am NOW 😁
    If there would be a US company wanting to make Rubbers, the first thought in their mind would most likely be : "Now, where in the world could we manufacture the bloody things cheapest" - Kazakhstan maybe ? Oh, I know , China 😎

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  18. Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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    #78
    I 've been playing with Butterfly rubbers forever, and switched to Dignics last year.
    They're the best rubbers i've ever tried, and i like to play with fresh sheets hence for example i just changed them after 3 months, but i think next time its going to be 2 months.
    if they cost 50% more i'd pay the price

    I hope that answers your question.

    PS. there are plenty of other rubbers around. But when you will face me you won't be able to block the spin from my Dignics BH and the power from my Tenergy FH.

    Have fun making slow and shitty topspins

    BUTTERFLY FOREVER

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  19. Der_Echte is online now
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    #79
    I have a very long history of dissing the price of BTY rubbers. It is not, because the outfit spends money on research, development, testing, etc... it is not because they make a high end product and want a premium... outfits who do that deserve whatever premium the market will give them. My beef is that outfit is over teh top on demanding premium. That outfit does it so much, even Greg Letts made a hilarious vid about it.

    Trying to benefit yourself very often leads to benefitting others, no beef there. BTY gunna get what the market gives them... and the market gives them a very good premium.

    Another beef I have with that outfit is their microwave mind marketing... that outfit got THOUSANDS of rabid fanboys doing free marketing for them and are more obnoxious than an open sore on the bottom of Ur man zone rubbing against ur undies every step.

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    President, Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club. Hit us up on TTD or Facebook
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  20. Der_Echte is online now
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    #80

    My company is just a just in time company. I am sure the just in time companies are suffering big time now.

    So much for all that industry emphasis on that Sigma Six stuff bahahahabahaahh.

    So go back to the beginning. The TT manufacturers will charge what the market will bear.

    Gotta say that is very well spoken.
    President, Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club. Hit us up on TTD or Facebook
    http://www.facebook.com/koreaforeignttc

    Janitor at NexyUSA TT Equipment Shop
    http://www.nexyusa.com

    View our Lame Nexy USA corporate FB page
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