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says 快、準、狠、變、轉Master TTD Member 5,232 7,437
says 快、準、狠、變、轉2 Weeks Ago 1613665665 #41That's why I feel so bad for the guy who started that thread on MyTT a decade ago. That's the cost of raw materials only. Labor, distribution, marketing, depreciation of machinery, administrative expenses...
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This user has no status.2 Weeks Ago 1613665927 #42
Love zeio data. he's always been having a lot. Of course rubber price has a big impact on ESN's bottom line, considering that profit is always only a fraction of sale. But we probably need more cost breakdown to see how much of rubber price is in the whole price.
Rubber technologies have been changing drastically relatively to those of blades. That trendy inner technology may sound fancy but it's been there decades ago. And it's just basically swapping around the layers. I still remember Sriver and Bryce. Miles difference. R&D is costly and RISKY. You pay a lot and sometimes you get nothing. So you need even more profit to make it worthwhile. Nothing dodgy in that.
As a bargain hunter, I don't buy Butterfly products either. But I do admire their quality, quite ahead of competitors, and their effort to keep that gap, keep innovating.
There is a big cost that diminishes the Chinese's advantages in European markets - distribution/retails. In China, $5 difference means 1/2 the price. In Europe, distribution/retails cost is so high nobody cares that much about $5. $35 or $40 is kinda the same. I don't have anything to back me up but it's reasonable to assume that that cost in table tennis is even higher than other popular sports like badmington/tennis due to a smaller market.
(Again, it's fair for a family run table tennis shop in the UK to take more profit margin than Decathlon. Because having a much smaller market, they are taking much more risk. We should appreciate that).The Following User Likes Tango K's Post:
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This user has no status.2 Weeks Ago 1613666566 #43
do you think butterfly could sponsor all of these players if they charged 40 for dignics and say 100 for mizutani superzlc?
https://butterflyonline.com/we-are-butterfly/players/The Following 2 Users Like olzetezkarzo's Post:
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Last edited by olzetezkarzo; 2 Weeks Ago at 04:44 PM.
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This user has no status.2 Weeks Ago 1613667606 #44
That’s a very good point.
Who says they have to be sponsored.
Lets stop buying the products and see how many will still be sponsored.
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This user has no status.2 Weeks Ago 1613669916 #45
I think butterfly will always be expensive.
They are the ferrari of table tennis.
It's supposed to be expensive and exclusive!
With that said, I don't think there's that many people using butterfly (except pro players).
In europe the typical player I saw was using a basic 5 ply like donic waldner senso v1 with maybe tibhar evolution both sides, and that's it.
There was maybe 1 or 2 using viscaria with tenergy, the real ejs.... in a club of 10.The Following User Likes olzetezkarzo's Post:
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Last edited by olzetezkarzo; 2 Weeks Ago at 05:44 PM.
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This user has no status.2 Weeks Ago 1613672507 #46
Not Ferrari, Mercedes maybe.
I know several Bty users. Most of them have been using Tenergy for a long time...
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This user has no status.2 Weeks Ago 1613674262 #47
My club has a discount program with the main Butterfly distributor in France and I'm in charge of purchasing material and equipment for the club and members from them and also other store partners.
We have -15% (more on clothing and tables) on all Butterfly blades and rubbers except Tenergy and Dignics (-10%).
Having direct communication with the manager, he explained to me something I already expected, that the profit margin on Tenergy and Dignics was very low, and he'd rather sell a sheet of Sriver or Rozena where the profit is much higher (you'll often see Rozena at -10€ like it is currently on sale, because they can, whereas they can't afford to with Tenergy and Dignics).
The R&D, cost and marketing of making these high-end rubbers is very high, especially for Butterfly who makes everything in-house unlike other brands who go through ESN and others. The cost of older products like Sriver, or products like Rozena (which was an offshoot of the R&D done for Tenergy) is low, and the marketing is low as well since there's no sponsoring attached to these products.
Marketing and sponsorship is an important cost as it drives sales and gives you the edge over your competitors. Even if the margins are lowered, you gotta keep that edge. Also, sponsorship is what allows the pros we like to watch to make a decent living, and the sport to grow.
Finally, not all Butterfly products are expensive and there are also plenty very good cheaper alternatives from other brands, like you mentioned Rakza 7 (ESN), for example. You don't have to like their prices, but it's important to keep things in perspective and not rail on them, because their margins are low and there are good reasons why (factories, machinery, repairs, overhead costs, staff, Made in Japan/Germany/Sweden, distribution, R&D, marketing, sponsorship, middle men...).The Following 2 Users Like thomas.pong's Post:
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Last edited by thomas.pong; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:56 PM.
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This user has no status.2 Weeks Ago 1613675229 #48
Marketing and sponsorship, there you go...
and I don’t believe everything I’m told...
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This user has no status.2 Weeks Ago 1613675944 #49
I don't think you should believe everything you're told, but there is such thing as market logics as many have explained and backed up, we don't have to like it but it is a reality. It's hard for a manufacturer to function and maintain alive if they don't do things a certain way.
Props to Japanese TT brands for mostly producing in Japan/Germany/Sweden, European brands for producing a lot in Europe etc.The Following 2 Users Like thomas.pong's Post:
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This user has no status.2 Weeks Ago 1613676880 #50
Sure and the way to do something about that is to vote with your feet...
In this context that means buy something else...
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This user has no status.2 Weeks Ago 1613677345 #52
The cheapest Tenergy I’ve seen is €75.
And there’s gotta be something wrong when your product is twice the price compared to the second most expensive, and not that much better. They may have the best product by not by much...
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KElite TTD Member 531 1,239
says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.Elite TTD Member 1,239 531
says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
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This user has no status.2 Weeks Ago 1613678465 #55
Top of the line Yasaka, Tibhar, Tsp, Victas, Gewo, Donic. etc etc.
Thats gotta be compared to Bty top of the line Dignics 09c which is €95 here...Last edited by Lazer; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:10 PM.
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This user has no status.2 Weeks Ago 1613679006 #56
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This user has no status.2 Weeks Ago 1613679664 #57
We were talking Tenergy...
Xiom Omega VII Tour: 70€, others: 58€
Andro Rasanter R53/48: 60€, R50/47...: 50€
Tibhar Evolution MX-P 50: 50€
Victas V>15 Extra: 50€
Donic Bluegrip: 50€
Joola Rhyzer: 50€
Stiga DNA: 50€
etc.
Not that much cheaper and they don't even manufacture them themselves, do full R&D, sponsor that much...Last edited by thomas.pong; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:25 PM.
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This user has no status.2 Weeks Ago 1613679794 #58
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says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.Elite TTD Member 1,239 531
says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
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This user has no status.2 Weeks Ago 1613680221 #60
Reply to zeio's post
Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto
Tibhar H-3-9
Evolution EL-S
Evolution EL-S
