Short Pic Vid of a typical City/Regional Korean TT Tourney

Tinykin · Mar 6, 2021

Der_Echte said:
Haha, I bad talked the winner of the Div 2 vs Div 2 match, and dude faces a Div 0 (Div ZERO) dude and immediatly spanks that Div 0 azz. Took forever for that old dude Div 0 to figure out how to play and even then it didn't help him much. I thought that Div 0 dude was over-rated or tired from too much drinking day before match. Wow, Div 2 dude was a better ssandbagger than I though, he barely played in earlier match, and this one, shows a much higher level in rallies.

Very, very captivating match. I think blue shirt was genuinely, very tired at some points,Perhaps the pre-match alcohol intake and that belly did not help😁. But I think the higher quality of his stroke play (even his many misses) was obvious. Or maybe I am biased towards spin players. However, the youngster looked as though he was playing out of his skin. Great match. More more, more😀 High praises to whomever did the editing. He/her gave the points time to breathe instead of a sharp cut

Der_Echte · Mar 6, 2021

Hi Tiny,

That Div 2 dude... so good at hiding the sandbagging... does not show much of his skill when he can win without going max... and makes it look like opponent bad or self not too powerful or high level in the vids vs such opponents... but in later matches, as tournye progresses and he faces legit powerhouse threats, dude TURNS IT ON and gives that class something to think about and figure out - some figure it out (barely) some do not quite make it). That is how ringers roll and thrive. I could not positively ID the ringer from my first look vs an opponent who wasn't a ringer.

The Div 0 guy.. he struck me as a dude how made that level, but is not exactly playing enough matches to keep his level... and seemed to not exactly have the energizer bunny battery going for him.. but he figured it out, barely.

Der_Echte · Mar 6, 2021

Der_Echte said:
Here is me back in Korea in 2010 or 2011 taking a pic with our pal Yoon Hong Gyoon at a big money tourney where all the sharks came out to eat the money and each other.

I have said it throughout the years, but it is a funny story some may not have been around for.

Here is Der_Echte, not exactly a powerhouse of Korean TT at any division he was in, yet got sponsored and wore dudded-up jerseys, went to tourneys, and got that sponsored-azz spanked. I simply helped an international umpire start a TT association for foreign players and got Nexy to sponsor it, since I was helping out Nexy review and marlet blades, and the brand owner knew me, and was very nice.

Our association had several ringers who were very prominent in the amateur TT scene back then, the enemy coaches and the Tourney Director learned to really hate on us, as I brought out of region players to regional tourneys.

The TDs did not want to really outright kick them out, but made them severely over classified. Our two best ringers got assigned Regional classifications of -1 and 0... so when they face a doubles squad of Div 1 ringers, they would have to cough up FOUR points handicap... if it wasn't for two consecutive net/dribble in plays at 9-9 in 5th, our ringes would have made it to finals and won easily vs that squad.

If you ask either of our 3 ringers, there was a great story of how these kids, who were raised in extreme cold climates, had a tough going of only -2C temps.

latej · Mar 7, 2021

Der_Echte said:
And here is our Nexy Korea sponsored Div 2 ringer in a match with teh famous Yoon Hong-Gyoon...

Thank you for these 3 matches with the guy in red Nexy shirt (#31, #33 and #34), which culminates with YHG. The comment after the first match left me confused, the second cleared it - the match against Div0 was great, pitty, he led 7:1, I thought it's done. The Div0 guy has weapons, but I prefer our red guys technique. In third match, YHG also looked a bit "tired", not in skin. Great match too, in the decider I thought YHG's tiredness and un-luck made it one-sided.

latej · Mar 7, 2021

Der_Echte said:
To confuse latej even moar...

Here is a vid from a national tourney for club teams... Womens Div... glasses is ladies Div 2, yellow is Div 3... the glasses would be a good mens Div 4 city level, could hang with some Div 3 mens city. The Div 3 lady in yellow would be a Div 5 mens.

When women get to be good enough to be to strong for ladies Div 1, then they go to mens Div 3 city and move up from there. One of my best tourneys ever in Korea was defeating a very skilled lady competing in Div 3 mens, she regularly murdered mens Div 3, but I spun her out of the gym... to make semis of city toureny then faced ANOTHER Inverted/SP BH player who was even more a killer. That is how it goes at top of the divisions. Tourney directors made me Div 2 after that, even though I never won anything.

Thanks for the Div3 match I asked for (#35). In 2:43 - a guy is going over the court and the pen-holder player - rotated backwards to him of course, so he can't see him - almost hits him, and the guy's expression in face like: "watch out man, what the ..., you almost touched me..."

But the ladies from #36 (this) seem 1-2 levels better to me, and you say the better lady with glasses would be Div3 men. The semi-final from #35 was Div3 men, and she would beat them both with 3 handicap, imo. The yellow dress lady looks like the one from next vid with JJM and couch (#38, I saw it in the past too), and I thought she would beat both of the Div3 semi-final men too. And JJM seems tick better than her, and you said JJM would be cut to pieces in Div3 men...

Anyways, good interesting matches of various levels, I don't really know what level is what, but that is just fine

How do you think the match between Takkyu and the red-shirt Nexy sponsored Div2 guy would turn out? Of course Takkyu is smart enough to not waste his time on Earth with men, so maybe hard to find out...

Der_Echte · Mar 7, 2021

Takkyu plays well, he belongs in his division, but he is NOT a secret or open ringer for his division. That Div 2 ringer is a ringer, he defeated Yoon Hong Gyoon in a handicap match... might have won vs him straight up. Takkyu would not threaten YHG like that. The Div 2 Natl ringer lives way down south and Takkyu is way up north in Seoul area, so I wouldn't expect such a match... but recently, Takkyu did a vid where he and a few players went way down south to Busan... so who knows?

The Div 3 lady with glasses was women's div 3 national for ladies division in that vid (and he opponent Div 4 ladies Natl)... She would be a stronger men's Div 4 City player and Div 5 Natl Mens.

In Korean TT, zero lets are called... except for two situations. Ball gets on table during rally, or ball hits a player next court before you can hit it (or you run into a player next court). That is it. Play on throught everything else. If a ball from next court goes under your table, it is perfectly OK to retreive it from under the table during your point if it is reachable.

Jung Joo Min got a LOT of good training from Yoo Nam Gyu and is a very solid player. Still, she would not cut it in Div 3 mens natl level. Too many good players there. So many ringers in Div 4 as well.

Der_Echte · Mar 7, 2021

oh... Joo Jung Min vs the Natl Ladies Div 3 lady with glasses.... Joo Jung Min wins 3-1 giving up a 2 pt handicap. (at least I would see it this happening this way)

The mens Natl Div 3 vid I showed, I was shocked these 2 were in semis... after watching the vid, I understand the pips guy, he played within his capabilities, stuck t his simple game plan, executed it well.

On a personal note, I played vs many pips players... and this style of pips player, unless 2-3 levels better than me, I would have very good wining percentage. The pips player who plays mostly passive, doesn't rush opponent, and waits for easy pick hit balls... I usually crush this kind of player. They give me TIME... you give me time on a ball where I know what is on it, then my 1st topspin will be too much. I loved playing vs this type in Korea. However, there are some of these with extraordinary tough.. and that is tough to see in a vid often. There are LP types who know how to LP bump the ball medium speed, but to the middle... they know how to find the middle, put it there, and let opponent trip over self. These LP types always advance over the first.

latej · Mar 7, 2021

Der_Echte said:
oh... Joo Jung Min vs the Natl Ladies Div 3 lady with glasses.... Joo Jung Min wins 3-1 giving up a 2 pt handicap. (at least I would see it this happening this way)

JJM vs the Div3 lady with glasses - I bet 5 beers on the lady with glasses, 3:1 if played with no handicap

Der_Echte · Mar 8, 2021

latej said:
JJM vs the Div3 lady with glasses - I bet 5 beers on the lady with glasses, 3:1 if played with no handicap

latej,

You go to Korea and they will LOVE YOU LIKE CRAZY.

- you like chicken and beer betting

- you support Korean women players

- you do not bet tiny amounts of beers

- you appear to be very willing to buy Koreans large quantities of beer... they might love that the most about you.

- they will luv you even moar if you keep doing that

Der_Echte · Mar 8, 2021

Div 2 haruka vs a club owner Pro Div 4 handicap match at some Nexy event south of Seoul last summer...

IB66 · Mar 8, 2021

Der_Echte said:
You ought to look up Park Ji Soo on youtube... or copy paste 박지수 탁구 into a youtube search and look for a somewhat tallish lady playing a very consistent game with some variety.

Hi Der,

Just tried Park Ji Soo search on YouTube, all I got was some young heartthrob actor dude!!!🤔
Any other links?

cheers,

IB66 · Mar 8, 2021

Der_Echte said:
Div 2 haruka vs a club owner Pro Div 4 handicap match at some Nexy event south of Seoul last summer...

Just shows the difference in levels really well !! Both were really enjoying the match. Club owner was sharp when he wanted to be!!
It’s great that they do this sort of event, gives people a chance to play much better players but maybe Haruka could have done with a couple more points handicap!! That would have shortened the odds as far as the beer and chicken bets were concerned!!!

Der_Echte · Mar 8, 2021

IB66 said:
Just shows the difference in levels really well !! Both were really enjoying the match. Club owner was sharp when he wanted to be!!
It’s great that they do this sort of event, gives people a chance to play much better players but maybe Haruka could have done with a couple more points handicap!! That would have shortened the odds as far as the beer and chicken bets were concerned!!!

Nah... dude was giving up the right amount... any more handicap he would have played too conservative.

In a club tourney, you will play whoever, regardless of level and use handicap.

You should try to give up 7 pt handicap to a free swinging lower level player... one net, edge and just one mistake and it is pretty much over for you.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

IB66 · Mar 8, 2021

Der_Echte said:
Nah... dude was giving up the right amount... any more handicap he would have played too conservative.

In a club tourney, you will play whoever, regardless of level and use handicap.

You should try to give up 7 pt handicap to a free swinging lower level player... one net, edge and just one mistake and it is pretty much over for you.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Yeah 7 is tough!!
some leagues here have a handicap club team comp, but the format is play to 21 old style, 5 serves etc.
Different leagues have different format but usually, start game with HC pts (as your vids) 0-5 in the match in question.
Other leagues add the handicap at the end!! Which is a bit odd!!
Start 0-0, play to 21, when one player hits 21, game over, if 0 HC gets to 21 first and the 5 HC gets 17 their points total is 22, so they would win 22 -21 !!!, basically the higher HC player just takes their HC away from 21 and that is their target score to get a draw at worst!! Yep draws are possible, and when the HC’s are correct there can be quite a few matches that end 3 & 1/2 v. 5 & 1/2

Der_Echte · Mar 12, 2021

Yoon Hong Gyun back in action in a real recent vid in a 3 vs 3 team tourney where there is 9 matches all singles everyone plays everyone with standard handicap of 2 points for first div of differeence and one additional point for each additional level of difference.

If you cannot tell who YHG is, then look at who gives up 3 handicap points. This is YHG vs a Div 3 natl level player, so 3 pt handi.

Der_Echte · Mar 12, 2021

Div 1 LP chopper lady vs attacking Div 4 guy 4 pt handicap. Same team tourney.

Der_Echte · Mar 13, 2021

Somehow, the vid, from same 3 on 3 tourney, did not display the lady chopper match. Now it correctly shows.

Der_Echte · Mar 13, 2021

The guy rated Div 4 natl... clearly has offense, as many Korean dudes have, but he can spin too. Usually, guys in Div 4 are there, because they are simply not consistent enough to play Div 3 or better. Sometimes, vs the right opponent, they might shine, just as it is in our sport.

Personally, I play very well vs this kind of LP player, who gives me time. I will have an good chance to win vs such a player 1.5 levels better than me and and even or lower chance vs this kind of player who is 2 levels better than me.

Getting back to the Div 4 dude... Div 4 national is STOCKED with guys at this skill or better. The elite Div 4 are really Div 2 guys who purposely never got promoted, so they can bring their club glory in the team event which is handicap. In a team event, a Div 4 may face a Div 1, happens all the time. What Korean coaches like to do is to keep a large pool of way-underclassified players to gain the best possible advantage in the team event.

It is much more preferable for a club to have certificates on the wall of a TEAM EVENT championship win over a few players making semis. Since this has been going on forever, now the team event is pretty much ringers vs ringers, so in that aspect it is even playing field. So it really becomes a test of how far can a club owner go in making ringers.

Tinykin · Mar 13, 2021

Der_Echte said:
The guy rated Div 4 natl... clearly has offense, as many Korean dudes have, but he can spin too. Usually, guys in Div 4 are there, because they are simply not consistent enough to play Div 3 or better. Sometimes, vs the right opponent, they might shine, just as it is in our sport.

Personally, I play very well vs this kind of LP player, who gives me time. I will have an good chance to win vs such a player 1.5 levels better than me and and even or lower chance vs this kind of player who is 2 levels better than me.

Getting back to the Div 4 dude... Div 4 national is STOCKED with guys at this skill or better. The elite Div 4 are really Div 2 guys who purposely never got promoted, so they can bring their club glory in the team event which is handicap. In a team event, a Div 4 may face a Div 1, happens all the time. What Korean coaches like to do is to keep a large pool of way-underclassified players to gain the best possible advantage in the team event.

It is much more preferable for a club to have certificates on the wall of a TEAM EVENT championship win over a few players making semis. Since this has been going on forever, now the team event is pretty much ringers vs ringers, so in that aspect it is even playing field. So it really becomes a test of how far can a club owner go in making ringers.

An organiser once told me that the perfect handicap is where the game score gets to 10-10. Based on the points score per game, even though match score was 3-0, the handicap could be deemed correct. However, I think that in handicap matches, the better player has to have a really good serve in order to get a few 'lucky' points 😊.

IB66 · Mar 14, 2021

Handicap matches can be pretty tense for the better players!! I’ve seen some games (to 21) where a Prem Div player has to give a bottom Div player 16 or 17 points!!!
Really leaves no space for mistakes!!! This can make the better player tense up and not play their ‘normal’ game, it can be very challenging!! Brings a different ‘mental’ approach to the game.
Lower level player can just go in with a ‘what the heck’ attitude, really go for it and play without a care in the world!!
Higher level player is under extra pressure from word go, sort of like being at 10-10 and setting for 21 points!!
A lot of the better players don’t like playing these handicap matches because they feel it’s too one sided when playing lower level players.
I just try and take handicap matches as some fun, but when the match is 4-4 you’re playing the decider, it becomes a different kettle of fish completely!!
Being a mid level player, I get a bit of both both being in front and playing catch up!!

Short Pic Vid of a typical City/Regional Korean TT Tourney

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