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  1. latej is offline
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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    Change it to “and” and I’m in...
    Oh, Lazer, I misunderstood. I thought you are telling me, that next time I go to the shop, you'll go with me IN, and let me buy you good blade AND good rubber ;-)

    Now, when I am no more afraid of it, I think you mean we should know what does it mean for the blade AND the rubber to be good. I agree and really hope many, like Der_Echte, will give their take on this...

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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by thomas.pong
    Hey Sam, most premades' blade comp and quality are actually really shitty, cheap plywood that chips away, no density, terrible bounce... even from TT brands. It didn't use to be that way.

    The blades may have gotten worse. But it doesn’t change the reason for why premades are unable to spin. It’s still because of that the rubber totally lacks grip and has the thinnest sponge.


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    #23
    Of course, both matters. But the original question wasn’t about if both matters or not? It was about what matters most, and how would a premade with real rubbers play?

    If you were to go to a tournament and forgot your blade at home. A teammate has two spare rackets to lend you. Which would you choose?

    Racket A. A premade blade but equipped with the same forehand rubber and backhand rubber you currently use.

    Racket B. The same blade you currently use but equipped with rubbers from a premade that’s without grip.

    Even if racket A is slow and with less feeling it would still allow me to play my normal game.
    Racket B however, would force me to play without spin.

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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by thomas.pong
    What's a good blade?
    OK, my take. I think new-comers are confronted with the enormous ocean of choices. Thousands things, unclear how they relate.

    With blades, the most helpful page for me was https://ttgearlab.com/. Even though, they seemingly add just 1 more dimension to the speed, the hold/kick, it makes huge difference to see the blades in 2D plane, how they relate. There is more dimensions, but it helps to not see the blades on single speed-line.

    The *good* of course is relative to the person. I have a friend who plays LP on BH, and wants as slow blade as possible. He plays inverted on FH, and has such tremendous speed in hand, that it absolutely doesn't matter that his blade is crazy slow, on our level of course. So for him, the slow defensive feeling blade is good. I like to loop, so I like a blade with good hold. The OP also says he likes to loop on both FH and BH, so according to that, a blade with more hold will be good for him. For say Harimoto, a blade with slightly less hold is preferable (good), due to his style. And for Der_Echte, we know what is good. (Your idea with blades is the reason I wanted to have "bow" emoticon). That is what good means to me.

    I think, although it costs money, it is not so bad to accidentally buy a blade which you don't like. It is preferably not really expensive blade. You can still learn a lot from it. On the other hand, I never had positive experience with cheaper blades. They were always so-so. Viscaria is not a cheap blade, but it is great, sorry, good for me. I don't need faster. I thought similar blade with limba top would possibly be better (bit slower, more hold), tried a cheaper one. It can't even lay next to Viscaria. Anyways, for the OP, I would think a blade with more hold can be good. Which speed is hard to say.

    With rubbers, I hope someone else explains. For sure, the *good* works the same way, very personal. I don't like catapulty tensor rubbers. I learned I like rubbers which are slow on slow impact, like slow push. Sometimes I see Chinese train the push. Their push jumps two times on the table. It is easier to do with a rubber which is slow on slow impact. Also I like this dense feeling of H3 sponge when I hit it with FH, even the new hybrids with hard sponge doesn't feel completely so. But that is just me. Luckily, with rubbers, it is easier to try and change. The only thing I'd not recommend is to buy two same rubbers for FH and BH. The more rubbers you try, the better now (to the certain degree).

    To conclude - it gets better. OP - you started good thread. When I made that fun about shop - don't take this personally, the question I see a bit silly, but still, we all love A or B questions. Best, truly...

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  5. IB66 is offline
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    #25
    Good for me may be bad for you!! It’s really a personal thing!!

    Given the choice between having a poor quality blade with good quality rubbers, Or good blade with poor quality rubbers, I’d choose the 1st option!! because initially, during play, I’d get more out of the better quality rubbers than a better quality blade.

    A lot of people find changing their blade more difficult than changing rubbers. Blades seem to be far more ‘personal’ because rubbers NEED changing more regularly because they deteriorate, so people can really get an attachment to ‘their’ blade!!!!

    As time passes you get to know what suits you best!! ‘Types’ of rubbers and ‘Types’ of blade within certain parameters.

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  6. thomas.pong is offline
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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by SamTheMan
    Of course, both matters. But the original question wasn’t about if both matters or not? It was about what matters most, and how would a premade with real rubbers play?If you were to go to a tournament and forgot your blade at home. A teammate has two spare rackets to lend you. Which would you choose?Racket A. A premade blade but equipped with the same forehand rubber and backhand rubber you currently use.Racket B. The same blade you currently use but equipped with rubbers from a premade that’s without grip.Even if racket A is slow and with less feeling it would still allow me to play my normal game.Racket B however, would force me to play without spin.
    What you pose is good point, yet an entirely different scenario. And yes, I'd absolutely pick Racket A in this case.

    For OP's sake, I don't think his original question is intended to be much of a philosophical or even technical question, but what seems to me like a novice asking if he should invest in a good blade with bad rubbers or vice-versa, or if it's preferable to get "fancy" rubbers over a "fancy" blade or vice-versa, based on his other posts asking for equipment advice.

    With that in mind, even in your scenario, if I had the option, I'd prefer Racket C: a blade I know or any 5-ply ALL+/OFF- all-wood blade with just about any tensor rubbers, which is what most of my clubmates play with and I'd be absolutely fine with, a middle-of-the-road blade with middle-of-the-road rubbers.

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  7. Lazer is online now
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    Oh, Lazer, I misunderstood. I thought you are telling me, that next time I go to the shop, you'll go with me IN, and let me buy you good blade AND good rubber ;-)

    Now, when I am no more afraid of it, I think you mean we should know what does it mean for the blade AND the rubber to be good. I agree and really hope many, like Der_Echte, will give their take on this...
    Exactly

    "I was thinking, rather than knowing whether it is more important to have good blade or good rubber, it is more important to know what does it mean for a blade or rubber to be GOOD."

    What I meant was that if You change the "or" to "and" I agree with You 😉, Thats all...

    Cheers
    L-zr

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    Last edited by Lazer; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:15 AM.

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    #28
    Other thing to consider is good quality blades can be affordable (viscsria is 100 pounds more than a V-14 pro) whereas going any lower prices than older tensors like MXP or Fastarc down to the chinese branded rubbers is a big step down.
    if it's a budget thing I would suggest:

    new player: Loki 5 ply rosewood blade with 729 focus snipe 3 both sides OR ak-47 blue Intermediate: same blade or 7 ply (red flame) with xiom vega intro Better mid grade: yinhe v-14 pro or hurricane bo2 with whatever you want that is on offer locally.

    I personally love my expensive blades but the cheaper ones are not even a sacrifice outside of placebo often.

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  9. merlin el mago is offline
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    #29
    With speed glue I play well whatever blade or inverted rubber.
    No more political prisoners in Catalonia.

  10. Der_Echte is offline
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    #30
    Reminds me of this pic...
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Last edited by Der_Echte; 2 Weeks Ago at 03:14 PM.
    President, Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club. Hit us up on TTD or Facebook
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    View our Lame Nexy USA corporate FB page
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  11. merlin el mago is offline
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    #31
    Reminds me The Ban people, not:

    -Celluloid balls.
    -38 mm balls.
    -LP treated for friction less
    -Speed glue.
    -Booster.
    -Thick rubbers.
    -Etc, etc, etc.....

    Let te people free and play with the material everybody want so we have our sport more rich of different styles and people can enjoy.
    No more political prisoners in Catalonia.

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    #32

    The rubber is vastly more important. I mean you could go from long pips to T05 inverted. That's a dramatic difference, it changes how you play entirely.


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    #33
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherParr

    The rubber is vastly more important. I mean you could go from long pips to T05 inverted. That's a dramatic difference, it changes how you play entirely.

    I played with both in one blade.

    No more political prisoners in Catalonia.

  14. langel is online now
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    #34
    Let's look on a hypothetical scenario:

    I have a tournament, but L've lost my equipment.
    Happily there is a store at the hall and they have the blade and the rubbers.
    But I don't have money enough, they don't give credit, and I have to choose between a 20 euro blade + the same rubbers, or the same 200 euro blade + 20 euro rubbers.
    Of course I would choose the 20 euro blade + the same rubbers, I have some set ups like that with Palio V1 and Palio THT paired with Xiom Omega rubbers, I know that they can't play like the Xiom Vega Tour blade, but they will always perform better than a Xiom Vega Tour blade paired with Palio AK-47 rubbers.

    But if you have to choose and build a set up, its another story.
    Its a process, not just a decision, and you have to think, test, play, think, test, play till you find the right combo.

    For me the best approach is to start with cheaper basic set up, upgrading the rubbers and after that fitting a better blade.
    After and if you find your dream blade, you may tune the set up with some rubber differences.

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  15. thomas.pong is offline
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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by langel
    Let's look on a hypothetical scenario:

    I have a tournament, but L've lost my equipment.
    Happily there is a store at the hall and they have the blade and the rubbers.
    But I don't have money enough, they don't give credit, and I have to choose between a 20 euro blade + the same rubbers, or the same 200 euro blade + 20 euro rubbers.
    Of course I would choose the 20 euro blade + the same rubbers, I have some set ups like that with Palio V1 and Palio THT paired with Xiom Omega rubbers, I know that they can't play like the Xiom Vega Tour blade, but they will always perform better than a Xiom Vega Tour blade paired with Palio AK-47 rubbers.

    But if you have to choose and build a set up, its another story.
    Its a process, not just a decision, and you have to think, test, play, think, test, play till you find the right combo.

    For me the best approach is to start with cheaper basic set up, upgrading the rubbers and after that fitting a better blade.
    After and if you find your dream blade, you may tune the set up with some rubber differences.
    I would do the same and later on reglue the rubbers to a preferred blade, but this is very hypothetical, and not what OP was asking/hinting at.

    Also, what if the store doesn't sell Xiom 😉.

    Totally agree with you on the process.

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    #36
    this is great

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    #37
    Blade: fast or slower speed
    Rubber: more or less spin
    No more political prisoners in Catalonia.

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    #38
    Rubbers for me, as they are responsible for creating spin and my game is always based on spin. With a cheap blade i can play with less speed but still use spin to win points. I can’t play my game at all if the rubbers are dead.
    People who play with little spin (pips or dead rubber players for example) may do well with cheap rubbers.

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    #39

    blade


  20. IB66 is offline
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    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Style22
    What’s more important?

    A good blade or a good rubber?

    What happens if you use a good rubber on a hobby bat? Fairly new to this, thank you for understanding!
    So taking it back to basics!!!
    Blade is most important, no blade = nowhere to put your rubbers!!!!🤔

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