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  1. KM1976 is offline
    says Focusing on Optimum Mechanics
     
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    KM1976 is offline
    says Focusing on Optimum Mechanics
     
    Advanced TTD Member 258 131
    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte
    KM, I have seen this gym on some of Next Level's Vids... so you can ask him directly.

    One thing I see is your elbow position... WAY to the rear... for the pendulum to get a good whip, the upper arm ought to run into your rib cage side and then lower arm go forward... you get maximum leverage and whip that way without losing any control... prolly better control that way.

    This is not saying your serve is wrong. When one wants to do a SHOVEL SERVE, one would have an elbow position like yours. One GOOD thing about training your short underspin serves witht the elbow way in the back like that is that when you establish your good shovel serves... you now have a way to show shovel serve, then give opponent a hopefully unexpected conventional underspin serve.

    This is a good capability to develop... an ability to serve multiple kinds of serves from the similar motion and arm slot.

    Thanks Der_Echte,
    Ya, me and NextLevel are club buddies. He is a very nice guy and I owe him a lot for his kindness and friendship.
    By the way, these are old videos, I did change my serves quite a bit now, keeping the core principles the same. Will try to shoot something with latest ones as well. Ya, when I learned serving that time I was beginner and without any guidance. I did all of the efforts on my own so may be this self induced medication is responsible for my unconventional technique. Not sure, if I can fix it now but will surely try.
    The interesting part is that since I used to practice my serves a lot, my serves became far better than my follow up game. So I can put a very heavy underspin serve but couldn't follow up with an opening loop consistently. I believe that one should think holistically and try to put only that much spin which he is able to counter with his topspin or drive. If a good player returns the whole spin back then I was mostly in trouble. Well, I tried and tried and kind of cured that problem as well. Now my advice to anyone practicing serves would be -


    • Serve with the intent of keeping it low over the net
    • Have variation to control the spin example, light to medium backspin and heavy backspin - it is good to generate heavy spin but remember that it is a double edge sword
    • Practice coming back to the neutral stance once you have served, I didn't do it and this integration took a lot of time later
    • Once you have a decent serve then let some one receive your serves and practice your next move against it. Have at least 2 approaches example, a opening topspin and a push ready for the follow up.
    • Many people want to kill the third ball, that includes me as well. But remember, it is calling 'opening' because of a reason. As a player you are opening the rally and this should be with good placement shot and not necessary a kill shot.


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    thomas.pong

    Most of the times practice, patience and an observant mind answers all your questions

  2. Der_Echte is offline
    says Grand Consultant to the Office of the Goon Squad
     
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    Der_Echte is offline
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    #22
    Regardless of arm position, if you are able to generate heavy enough spin to make an opponent realize your underspin serve is heavy and be wary... then when you sell that heavy and slip in that light spin serve, then you have instant offensive potential.

    Again, any or all of the mechanics can be off and you still can get results, still be consistent and that is what counts.

    Players of any level should be training serves and discovering how to make offense or if a defensive player, how it links to their rally plan.

    So many players who try serving, never really do it in a progressive manner isolating things and get so dicouraged so quickly.
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  3. KM1976 is offline
    says Focusing on Optimum Mechanics
     
    Advanced TTD Member 131 258
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    KM1976 is offline
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    Advanced TTD Member 258 131
    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte
    Regardless of arm position, if you are able to generate heavy enough spin to make an opponent realize your underspin serve is heavy and be wary... then when you sell that heavy and slip in that light spin serve, then you have instant offensive potential.

    Again, any or all of the mechanics can be off and you still can get results, still be consistent and that is what counts.

    Players of any level should be training serves and discovering how to make offense or if a defensive player, how it links to their rally plan.

    So many players who try serving, never really do it in a progressive manner isolating things and get so dicouraged so quickly.

    Good, getting endorsed by the Grand consultant for office of the Goon Squad means a lot. Thank you

    Last edited by KM1976; 1 Week Ago at 06:45 PM.
    Most of the times practice, patience and an observant mind answers all your questions

  4. brokenball is offline
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    #24
    It is best to have a few different types of serve. I have a very spiny short back spin serve but if I serve it to many times the opponent will adapt.
    I vary the spin with my wrist motion and where I hit the ball with my paddle.

  5. Baal is offline
    says Ba'al has spoken
     
    Master TTD Member 5,842 3,509
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    Baal is offline
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    #25
    Definition of a good serve in TT: Any serve that produces a weak return. In contrast to tennis, we don't serve aces. It is all about deception. That is the thing that has to be front and center.

    So what are the skills you need to be able to make your serve deceptive? We should discuss that, and even more, what are the things you can do to develop those skills?

    Here is one: get two large paper binders and use them to clamp chopsticks or pencils to the net posts. Tie a piece of string to the sticks to create a space you can vary between top of the net and string. Start at about 15 cm. Practice serving under the string. Gradually reduce the space until you can do it with 6 cm or less and never miss. Make sure to serve to both sides.

    This is not about generating spin. But you will develop skill needed for good serves including generating spin. Later you can do this with serves of markedly different spin. Long serves. Short serves. Hook serves etc.

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  6. IB66 is offline
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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Baal
    Definition of a good serve in TT: Any serve that produces a weak return. In contrast to tennis, we don't serve aces. It is all about deception. That is the thing that has to be front and center.

    So what are the skills you need to be able to make your serve deceptive? We should discuss that, and even more, what are the things you can do to develop those skills?

    Here is one: get two large paper binders and use them to clamp chopsticks or pencils to the net posts. Tie a piece of string to the sticks to create a space you can vary between top of the net and string. Start at about 15 cm. Practice serving under the string. Gradually reduce the space until you can do it with 6 cm or less and never miss. Make sure to serve to both sides.

    This is not about generating spin. But you will develop skill needed for good serves including generating spin. Later you can do this with serves of markedly different spin. Long serves. Short serves. Hook serves etc.

    I think that a good serve not only produces a weak return, it should also produce a ‘predictable’ return of serve, in general terms. If you know that the ball is likely to be returned in a certain way, to a position or area on your side of the table 8 times out of 10, then you are in a position to take the initiative with your 3rd ball attack. Your serve should be looked at with the view to ‘set up’ the point to your strengths.

    EXPECT your serves to be returned, a serve return error by your opponent is a BONUS easy point!!!!!

    Fake motion, is a good way of helping to make a serve deceptive, but the basics of the serve motion needs to be well ingrained first before adding the fake motion.

    Spin variation is deceptive, so a backspin serve should be varied, heavy, mid-heavy, mid, mid-light, light and no spin etc.

    One thing I’ve been doing recently is recording myself during a serve practice session. Choosing a serve type and recording that serve, trying to vary placement, spin and speed, then reviewing to see what my serve action looks like, how consistent, ie how many net serves, clean serves, failed serves (in the net or long), can I ‘pick’ whether the serve is going to be short or long and so on.
    It’s really good to actually see what you are doing!!!

    I watched one of the coaches practicing serves, the set up, was to place a ‘barrier’ that is an inch (25mm) or so higher than the net in front of the net by about 9 inches (225mm). He said the aim is to serve over the barrier which should then mean that the ball is descending when it passes over the net.
    He said that serving tight to the net is very important, and if you can get the apex of the ball flight after the first bounce to be before rather than at the net it helps make the serve more awkward to return.
    Anyone out there seen this or practiced like this??

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  7. IB66 is offline
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    #27

    Some serves!!

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    KM1976

    Last edited by IB66; 3 Days Ago at 10:30 PM. Reason: Removed duplicate link

  8. thomas.pong is offline
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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by IB66

    I watched one of the coaches practicing serves, the set up, was to place a ‘barrier’ that is an inch (25mm) or so higher than the net in front of the net by about 9 inches (225mm). He said the aim is to serve over the barrier which should then mean that the ball is descending when it passes over the net.He said that serving tight to the net is very important, and if you can get the apex of the ball flight after the first bounce to be before rather than at the net it helps make the serve more awkward to return.Anyone out there seen this or practiced like this??

    Do you have a link to this net barrier video?

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    IB66


  9. IB66 is offline
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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by thomas.pong
    Do you have a link to this net barrier video?

    Hi Thomas,
    No vid clip, I was just watching him at the end of a training session, he was using a bat wallet case, which is much higher than the 25mm I was talking about!!! he just said it was all he had to hand at the time!! but 25mm is a good height to be higher than the net!!! keeps 2nd bounce lower.

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