Best rubbers to go with Timo ball ZLF?

thomas.pong · Apr 15, 2021

Lazer said:
I totally disagree, the difference is minute and doesn’t make any difference at that level. Stigas higher end premades are definitely not crap. And I have experimented on this subject and it doesn’t make any difference if you have a couple of years experience.

At my office we got a table a couple of years and a half ago, and lots of people had just that kind of experience and racket. Now the office is empty but before the pandemy I felt sorry for them and arranged a couple of Stiga all round with DNA future. The difference they noted didn’t make any difference whatsoever. So I don’t believe in that myth anymore.

Cheers
L-zr

I think we're talking about two very different kinds of players (and environment): 1) office, basement, backyard, campground and bar players, and 2) club and serious players (even in their garage). For the first group, you're right, the difference is not important, most of them are going to play however they want to play, and feel is often not even a thought or consideration. For the second group however, feel and touch play a huge part, and you become increasingly aware of it along the years, so better to start and stick with something that will allow that feel to grow.

I can't speak for your co-workers, but you seem to belong to the second group, and from your previous posts and blade choices, you definitely like the feeling of a stiff thick blade with soft dynamic rubbers. I encourage you to try thin composite non-carbon blades like ZLF, AL and Kevlar with FX-S or even hard rubbers, and see how you like that very mute feel on a flexy blade...

Lazer · Apr 15, 2021

No it doesn't matter, that is a myth my friend. At that level we are basically the same. If anything the more serious player would have less problems adapting..

thomas.pong · Apr 16, 2021

Lazer said:
No it doesn't matter, that is a myth my friend. At that level we are basically the same. If anything the more serious player would have less problems adapting..

You say it's a myth, and you have every right to believe it is. Yet different materials produce differences in performance, feel... and players have different abilities and sensibilities.

The blades suggested by Carl and myself, classic middle ground OFF- 5-ply all-wood blades, remain a more straight forward, safer, can't-go-wrong, trusted and cheaper bet regardless, suitable for beginners, low and high intermediate, advanced and some pros. And this comes from 2 guys who have actually tried the blade you recommend (Timo Boll ZLF) and others like it and have had similar experiences with them. I cannot make recommendations based on stats or on things I haven't tried myself nor say that it doesn't matter if I haven't tried it, but that's just me. I understand that you're not very sensitive to equipment (yet you still have preferences like everyone), and you most likely have better touch and feel than I do, either naturally, from experience, or both, but not everyone's like that.

UpSideDownCarl · Apr 16, 2021

I think it is okay for us to understand that, I think, Lazer is in Sweden and I have a feeling the level of play in Sweden is very high. So, from his perspective he may be correct. And if I was in Sweden, I may think some similar things. I am not sure.

But without seeing video of Akira play, we don't really know what will be good for him. And the standard of play in a lot of places is not really that high.

So....there is a possibility that, considered from a certain perspective, Lazer is making valid points. We already know that Lazer likes very fast blades and slowing things down by choosing rubbers that are not as fast. I know other players who like that as well who are decent level players. His recommendations seem to reflect his preferences. Which is how many people are.

I am okay with letting Akira make the decision for himself based on the info already presented from both sides.

UpSideDownCarl · Apr 16, 2021

One time I met this guy from Sweden. He was with his family. He was middle aged. He had been drinking pint after pint. He saw me and my friend and said something like: "You guys look like the only people here that can play, can I hit with you." It was at SPiN on 23rd and Park in Manhattan which is more like a bar/night club with tables.He also told us he had not played since he was a kid. He was still freaking good and better than me or my friend (who was also better than me).

So, I called another friend who I knew was working across the street even though it was the weekend. And this guy is about 2300 (USATT rating which means he is a darn good player) and they played some matches. In the first match my friend won the first game sort of handily, (something like 11-5). The second game was 11-9. The third game they went to deuce and the guy, still pounding pints, won. And after that, my friend could not get more than 3 or 4 points from him. hahahahaha.

So, someone playing in a garage in Sweden still could be a very high level player.

I don't really know if this has much to do with anything. But I also get the sense that Lazer may be a higher level than he realizes in comparison to most of the newer members on the forum.

UpSideDownCarl · Apr 16, 2021

I guess, an addendum. After hearing members self describe their level, and then seeing footage (sent to me by PM) one thing I am always struck with is, player's descriptions of their level is invariably at odds with the footage I have seen. I have seen players over-rate their skills, under-rate their skills, describe themselves as an offensive player when all I saw was defense, describe themselves as a defensive player when all I saw was wild swing and hit or miss attacks.....so.....in this instance, I am not sure what 4 years of play means but, since Akira is saying he has been training 4x per week with A COACH, Lazer may be in an acceptable ballpark here; However this is another thought on the subject:

Akira: it may be a good idea to ask your coach what he feels would be good equipment for you to upgrade to. He knows how you play better than any of us on the internet who have not seen you play.

Good luck.

Lazer · Apr 16, 2021

thomas.pong said:
You say it's a myth, and you have every right to believe it is. Yet different materials produce differences in performance, feel... and players have different abilities and sensibilities.

The blades suggested by Carl and myself, classic middle ground OFF- 5-ply all-wood blades, remain a more straight forward, safer, can't-go-wrong, trusted and cheaper bet regardless, suitable for beginners, low and high intermediate, advanced and some pros. And this comes from 2 guys who have actually tried the blade you recommend (Timo Boll ZLF) and others like it and have had similar experiences with them. I cannot make recommendations based on stats or on things I haven't tried myself nor say that it doesn't matter if I haven't tried it, but that's just me. I understand that you're not very sensitive to equipment (yet you still have preferences like everyone), and you most likely have better touch and feel than I do, either naturally, from experience, or both, but not everyone's like that.

I have to disagree again, Very few people know what they like after such a short time of playing and besides that was not the discussion. The discussion here was simply should he be able to handle it. And I say absolutely. I never said he was gonna like it.
If You have been following my posts You should now that I currently own 8 different blades rated from all all the way to off+. I my opinion they all are as close to the manufacturers specification as can be expected. I see no reason that BTY should be any different for one particular technology. Yes it may lean towards what You are saying, but the difference between that technology and others are not noticeable or at least makes much difference to a player of that expected level. that is what I am saying.

Cheers
L-zr

Lazer · Apr 16, 2021

UpSideDownCarl said:
One time I met this guy from Sweden. He was with his family. He was middle aged. He had been drinking pint after pint. He saw me and my friend and said something like: "You guys look like the only people here that can play, can I hit with you." It was at SPiN on 23rd and Park in Manhattan which is more like a bar/night club with tables.He also told us he had not played since he was a kid. He was still freaking good and better than me or my friend (who was also better than me).

So, I called another friend who I knew was working across the street even though it was the weekend. And this guy is about 2300 (USATT rating which means he is a darn good player) and they played some matches. In the first match my friend won the first game sort of handily, (something like 11-5). The second game was 11-9. The third game they went to deuce and the guy, still pounding pints, won. And after that, my friend could not get more than 3 or 4 points from him. hahahahaha.

So, someone playing in a garage in Sweden still could be a very high level player.

I don't really know if this has much to do with anything. But I also get the sense that Lazer may be a higher level than he realizes in comparison to most of the newer members on the forum.

I’m not that good, I’m old, slow and tired now. I recently suffered a heart stop and need to improve my condition. Table tennis comes in handy for that, because it can be just as exhausting as you want it to be.
The pisser is I just got started when COVID hit. Fortunately we have both space and a table at my office, but it would nice to have more different people to play with...

Cheers
L-zr

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Best rubbers to go with Timo ball ZLF?

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