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This user has no status.This user has no status.04-27-2021 1619486291 #21
Originally, the term hybrid rubbers were Chinese topsheets with a borrowed sponge from jpn or German sponge. Nowadays, people use the term hybrid loosely.
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This user has no status.This user has no status.04-27-2021 1619505894 #22
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This user has no status.This user has no status.04-27-2021 1619507672 #23
Hi Yogi,
Good to see you are getting back into the swing of things and recovering.
Yeah it's now become a classification of rubber type in it's own right !!!
For me the 1st and main criteria is the tackiness of the top sheet!!! That's the first thing everyone checks with 'Chinese' and 'Hybrid' rubbers, with some of the Chinese rubbers all you have to do is open the pack and the resultant smell tells you the rubber will be tacky!!
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This user has no status.This user has no status.04-27-2021 1619509679 #24
I wonder why no one is mentioning Thors. I find it excellent with the new ball or at least definitely better than with the celluloid
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This user has no status.This user has no status.04-27-2021 1619521277 #25
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says Dis donc !!says Dis donc !!04-28-2021 1619588286 #26
Probably because it's impossible to find it anymore. Since the hybrid market is growing more and more, with big name companies paying attention to it, lower brands products like Palio are disappearing from that market, now it's all about Tibhar K's, Yasaka RZ's, Donic BG's or BTY 09C. Even Nittaku who was, as Yogi said, the japanese brand who took the hybrid name just...right, by assembling bouncy japan made sponges with chinese topsheets, isn't considered anymore by the OP as being a brand producing hybrid rubbers. Even an H8 isn't considered as an hybrid although it was the biggest effort made by DHS to produce a somehow elastic/bouncy sponge + tacky topsheet rubber.
The market has manipulated the minds too much strongly over the years. Being a purist, like Yogi, would also exclude those H8's, and being too much receptive to market manipulations, like IB66, excludes those "old" rubbers like the Thors or the Nittaku HP3TO or HP3TB.
"Hybrid" should not be the ESN or BTY's exclusive trademarks. What's a "chinese" rubber ? we all agree it's a combination of a hard dead sponge + tacky topsheet, the only difference is the sponge with hybrids ones, ESN and BTY are definitely NOT the only factories to make bouncy sponges.
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This user has no status.This user has no status.04-28-2021 1619592020 #27
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This user has no status.This user has no status.04-28-2021 1619603168 #28
Hi M&P
Just to clarify things, the Nittaku rubbers have been added to the list, i haven't 'excluded' Thors, I asked for more information.
if any other members want a rubber added then that's fine. but what is trying to be produced is a list of where these rubbers may sit, ie more towards a traditional 'traditional Chinese rubber' or more towards a non tacky (but grippy) top sheet with a very bouncy sponge (I have used the terms ESN/SS because generally, many on the forum associate 'a very bouncy sponge' with these brands.)
H8 doesn't really 'play like' a 'hybrid' rubber, and to a certain extent H3-50 (which i have used) and probably H3-60 (which I have not tried) play slightly differently and could be taken as more towards a 'hybrid' rubber but as Yogi said maybe not to be best to included.
Hybrid - I would agree with Yogi that this list is based on Characteristics rather than a 'borrowed' Chinese top sheet with a 'very bouncy sponge' from a different company.
On the flip side, a grippy top sheet combined with a 'dead' hard sponge could also be considered a 'Hybrid' not many (if any) of these around!! probably because they may be pretty crap to play with !!! ???
The rubbers on the list to start with (which has now been expanded) are rubbers that I have tried and used, which are from the manufacturers listed. I haven't used any rubbers made by Chinese or 'smaller' rubber manufacturers, that have been some of their attempts at a 'Hybrid' rubber. therefore i don't have knowledge of how they play, their characteristics etc and so it would be incorrect for me to just go ahead and place them within the list or within the 'scale' as it were.
As far as agreeing what the combination of a Chinese tacky Rubber is, to expand a little, hopefully you'll agree with -
Tacky Top Sheet - Yep agreed
Harder rubber / top sheet ???
Hard dead sponge - Not really,
Hard- yes,
Dense sponge with small bubbles - Yes,
Dead - No, the top sheet tackiness predominantly causes the initial lack of bounce. Cover a tacky top sheet with a film, therefore removing the tacky surface and do a bounce test, yep there is a reduction in the amount of bounce (but no where near what may be expected).The Following User Likes IB66's Post:
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04-28-2021 1619645525 #30
Anyone here tested the Bluegrip C2 and the Sieger PK50 ? Which one is the closest to the chinese side ?
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This user has no status.This user has no status.04-28-2021 1619647259 #31
I’ve used both, but didn’t get on very well with the PK50, Only recently used Bluegrip C2 (on a faster blade.)
Both are more toward the ‘very bouncy’ end. Maybe PK50 is closer to the Chinese side.
I’m not sure why, (I was really looking forward to using PK50) but just couldn’t get on with it, serves were very good loads of spin, but for the rest of my game i really struggled !! Still a great rubber in the right hands!!!
The C2 seems (for me) slightly easier to handle, it’s on a Zhang Jike ALC, the PK50 was on an Acoustic all wood.
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This user has no status.This user has no status.04-29-2021 1619654495 #33
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This user has no status.This user has no status.04-29-2021 1619672859 #34
Yesterday I did a quick bounce test, H3 Neo with the film left on and Rakza Z no film, the bounce between the two was almost identical !! About 1 bounce less for the H3 Neo,
H3 Neo without film was less, as you’d expect.
Rakza Z has a lot less tackiness, holds ball for less than a second, H3 Neo held ball for much longer!!
C2 holds the ball for about the same time as Rakza Z and is slightly more bouncy!!
it’s sort of surprising that a slightly grippy top sheet like C2 or Rakza Z, D09C effects feel so much!!The Following User Likes IB66's Post:
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says Dis donc !!says Dis donc !!
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This user has no status.This user has no status.04-29-2021 1619689911 #36
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This user has no status.This user has no status.04-29-2021 1619697105 #37
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says Mind over mattersays Mind over matter04-29-2021 1619713759 #38
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Last edited by Suga D; 04-29-2021 at 04:47 PM.
Instrument of choice:
Blade: Afrobro´s custom made handcrafted3ply Hinoki
FH: BLACKRUBBER
BH: REDRUBBER
Mind over Matter
Backspin for Backspin even while I'm rappin' (Lord Doitall - Lords of the Underground)
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This user has no status.This user has no status.04-29-2021 1619722041 #39
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This user has no status.This user has no status.04-30-2021 1619814936 #40