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  1. IB66 is offline
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    #61
    Quote Originally Posted by MK73

    This rubber sounds very interesting. First time I hear about it. Anyone here who has tried it?

    DHL are saying that my delivery is due today!!!
    Victas Triple Double Extra and Triple Extra!!

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    MK73, Rinforzando and 1 other


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    #62
    Quote Originally Posted by IB66

    DHL are saying that my delivery is due today!!!
    Victas Triple Double Extra and Triple Extra!!

    I hope you'll do a review !

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    Suga D


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    #63
    Following receipt of the Victas Triple Extra and Triple Double Extra rubbers, I have up dated the list again!!

    Today I did some basic tests - tackiness, bounce and general ‘feel’ (how lively or dead)
    Bear in mind that some rubbers are older than others, this is just a post on what I observed today.

    Andro R48 was used as a ‘bouncy grippy rubber’ type and DHS H3 / H3 Neo / Skyline 3 as Chinese style tacky rubbers

    TACKINESS (Starting with most tacky ) duration of ‘ball held for’ are approximate durations. Just to give an idea of how long, (not timed by stopwatch!!!) over 10 goes per rubber. All rubbers were freshly cleaned with water and sponge. Didn’t have any proper rubber cleaner to hand!!!

    1) Victas Triple Double Extra - very / high tackiness, ball held for 5 to 20+ seconds
    2) DHS H3 standard - high tackiness, ball held for 6+ seconds
    3) Xiom Tau 2 - mid tackiness, ball held for 2 - 5 seconds
    4) DHS H3Neo - mid tackiness, ball held for 2 - 5 seconds
    5) Yasaka Rakza Z - low to mid tackiness, ball held for 1 - 5 seconds
    6) DHS Skyline 3 - low tackiness, ball held for 1 - 2 seconds
    7) Donic Bluegrip V1 - low tackiness, ball held for 0.75 to 1.5 seconds
    8) Victas Triple Extra - Barely tacky, ball held for less than 1 second
    9) Donic Bluegrip C2 - Barely tacky, ball held for less than 1 second
    10 Andro R48 - No tackiness !!!
    (D09C after use was ‘barely tacky’ new sheet - low tackiness, from memory, don’t have a sheet anymore!!)

    BOUNCE (starting with least bounce) 1st number is WITHOUT protection film, 2nd number in [] is WITH protection film. Again can be quite hard to get a really accurate number of bounces, just a guide!! Sponge hardness is also shown ‘shore A’ scale.

    1 = ) DHS Skyline 3 & H3 std - 4 bounces [ 8+ ]. Both 53 degree
    3) Victas Triple Double Extra - 4 to 5 bounces [ 8 to 10 ]. 57.5 degree
    4) DHS H3 Neo - 5 to 6 bounces [ 8+ ]. 53 degree
    5) Victas Triple Extra - 7 to 8 bounces [ 8 - 9 ]. 55 degree
    6) Xiom Tau 2 - 7 to 8 bounces [ 8 to 10 ]. 54/55 degree
    7) Yasaka Rakza Z - 8+ bounces [ 8 to 10+ ]. 50/52 degree
    8 = ) Donic V1 & C2 - 8+ bounces [ 10+ ]. V1 50 degree, C2 55 degree
    10) Andro R48 - 9 to 10+ bounces. [ 9 to 10+ ] 48 degree

    GENERAL ‘FEEL’ starting with deadest feel, ending with most lively, personal interpretation, take with a pinch of salt!!!

    1) H3 std
    2) H3 Neo
    3) Skyline 3
    4) Tau 2
    5) Triple Double Extra
    6) Triple Extra
    7) Rakza Z
    8) Bluegrip V1
    9) Bluegrip C2
    10 R48


    Cheers!!


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    AndySmith, GrayGhost and 2 others


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    #64
    Quote Originally Posted by IB66
    Following receipt of the Victas Triple Extra and Triple Double Extra rubbers, I have up dated the list again!!

    Today I did some basic tests - tackiness, bounce and general ‘feel’ (how lively or dead)
    Bear in mind that some rubbers are older than others, this is just a post on what I observed today.

    Andro R48 was used as a ‘bouncy grippy rubber’ type and DHS H3 / H3 Neo / Skyline 3 as Chinese style tacky rubbers

    TACKINESS (Starting with most tacky ) duration of ‘ball held for’ are approximate durations. Just to give an idea of how long, (not timed by stopwatch!!!) over 10 goes per rubber. All rubbers were freshly cleaned with water and sponge. Didn’t have any proper rubber cleaner to hand!!!

    1) Victas Triple Double Extra - very / high tackiness, ball held for 5 to 20+ seconds
    2) DHS H3 standard - high tackiness, ball held for 6+ seconds
    3) Xiom Tau 2 - mid tackiness, ball held for 2 - 5 seconds
    4) DHS H3Neo - mid tackiness, ball held for 2 - 5 seconds
    5) Yasaka Rakza Z - low to mid tackiness, ball held for 1 - 5 seconds
    6) DHS Skyline 3 - low tackiness, ball held for 1 - 2 seconds
    7) Donic Bluegrip V1 - low tackiness, ball held for 0.75 to 1.5 seconds
    8) Victas Triple Extra - Barely tacky, ball held for less than 1 second
    9) Donic Bluegrip C2 - Barely tacky, ball held for less than 1 second
    10 Andro R48 - No tackiness !!!
    (D09C after use was ‘barely tacky’ new sheet - low tackiness, from memory, don’t have a sheet anymore!!)

    BOUNCE (starting with least bounce) 1st number is WITHOUT protection film, 2nd number in is WITH protection film. Again can be quite hard to get a really accurate number of bounces, just a guide!! Sponge hardness is also shown ‘shore A’ scale.

    1 = ) DHS Skyline 3 & H3 std - 4 bounces [ 8+ ]. Both 53 degree
    3) Victas Triple Double Extra - 4 to 5 bounces [ 8 to 10 ]. 57.5 degree
    4) DHS H3 Neo - 5 to 6 bounces [ 8+ ]. 53 degree
    5) Victas Triple Extra - 7 to 8 bounces [ 8 - 9 ]. 55 degree
    6) Xiom Tau 2 - 7 to 8 bounces [ 8 to 10 ]. 54/55 degree
    7) Yasaka Rakza Z - 8+ bounces [ 8 to 10+ ]. 50/52 degree
    8 = ) Donic V1 & C2 - 8+ bounces [ 10+ ]. V1 50 degree, C2 55 degree
    10) Andro R48 - 9 to 10+ bounces. [ 9 to 10+ ] 48 degree

    GENERAL ‘FEEL’ starting with deadest feel, ending with most lively, personal interpretation, take with a pinch of salt!!!

    1) H3 std
    2) H3 Neo
    3) Skyline 3
    4) Tau 2
    5) Triple Double Extra
    6) Triple Extra
    7) Rakza Z
    8) Bluegrip V1
    9) Bluegrip C2
    10 R48


    Cheers!!

    I agree with everything you just wrote though I haven't tried a few of these rubbers. Rakza Z is probably the most "pure" hybrid due to the medium tack and (somewhat) lively sponge. D09c shouldn't even be considered a hybrid... not sticky at all but still a great rubber!


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    #65
    Quote Originally Posted by GrayGhost

    I agree with everything you just wrote though I haven't tried a few of these rubbers. Rakza Z is probably the most "pure" hybrid due to the medium tack and (somewhat) lively sponge. D09c shouldn't even be considered a hybrid... not sticky at all but still a great rubber!

    There was one strange tackiness test, on one of the 10 tests with R48 the ball held for about 3 seconds !!! Weird !!! I discounted this as a ‘rogue’ result, all the other tries produced no hold at all !!!

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    #66
    Omega 7 china series, joola Golden tango
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  7. Music&Ping is offline
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    #67
    Quote Originally Posted by GrayGhost

    I agree with everything you just wrote though I haven't tried a few of these rubbers. Rakza Z is probably the most "pure" hybrid due to the medium tack and (somewhat) lively sponge. D09c shouldn't even be considered a hybrid... not sticky at all but still a great rubber!

    I do not agree: the stickyness is not the only guaranty for spin, it's a balance between the stickyness and topsheet softness levels that makes some rubbers being spinnier than others. You have to work a lot harder to generate heavy spin with sticky rubbers that have harder top sheets, to bring more power.

    Last edited by Music&Ping; 05-07-2021 at 06:46 AM.

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    #68
    The stickiness of the topsheet has one of the most important properties, and that is the delay of contact with the ball. This feature significantly increases the certainty of blows (control). Forget spinning values, no professional Chinese rubber states these values. These are values only for amateur players ...
    dhs-729.eu

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    #69
    Quote Originally Posted by harty
    The stickiness of the topsheet has one of the most important properties, and that is the delay of contact with the ball. This feature significantly increases the certainty of blows (control). Forget spinning values, no professional Chinese rubber states these values. These are values only for amateur players ...
    By chance, would you happen to know about a tacky (as much as possible) chinese rubber which can be ordered (somewhere, say Ali) with sponge thickness 0,4 - 0,8mm? (For a defender friend.) Or even a top-sheet only.

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    #70
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    By chance, would you happen to know about a tacky (as much as possible) chinese rubber which can be ordered (somewhere, say Ali) with sponge thickness 0,4 - 0,8mm? (For a defender friend.) Or even a top-sheet only.

    they are very sticky from 729 battle 2 and bloom, unfortunately they only make them 2.1 mm thick.
    729 produces the following top sheets and separate sponges:
    Topsheets OX
    C.J.001 CREAM (pair) OX IN / STICKY
    C.J.002 729 OX —— IN / STICKY
    C.J.003 729-2 OX —— IN / STICKY
    C.J.005 FX OX —— IN / STICKY

    Sponge only
    C.H.H001 ZHO 0.5 —— ORANGE / SPEED
    C.H.H002 0.8 ——
    C.H.H007 ZHL 0.5 —— YELLOW / SPIN
    C.H.H008 0.8 ——
    C.H.H013 TZY 0.5 —— BLUE / SPEED
    C.H.H014 0.8 ——
    C.H.H019 GTW 0.5 —— WHITE / SPEED
    C.H.H020 0.8 ——

    dhs-729.eu

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    #71
    Quote Originally Posted by harty

    they are very sticky from 729 battle 2 and bloom, unfortunately they only make them 2.1 mm thick.
    729 produces the following top sheets and separate sponges:
    Topsheets OX
    C.J.001 CREAM (pair) OX IN / STICKY
    C.J.002 729 OX —— IN / STICKY
    C.J.003 729-2 OX —— IN / STICKY
    C.J.005 FX OX —— IN / STICKY

    Sponge only
    C.H.H001 ZHO 0.5 —— ORANGE / SPEED
    C.H.H002 0.8 ——
    C.H.H007 ZHL 0.5 —— YELLOW / SPIN
    C.H.H008 0.8 ——
    C.H.H013 TZY 0.5 —— BLUE / SPEED
    C.H.H014 0.8 ——
    C.H.H019 GTW 0.5 —— WHITE / SPEED
    C.H.H020 0.8 ——

    Thanks. I'd like to buy topsheets C.J.002, .003 and .005. Is there some info about the sponge hardnesses? Or, is the BLUE sponge the one used in Battle 2 BLUE Sponge? If so, I'd like to buy 3 of those in 0.5, i.e C.H.H013. Hardness H39 and more would be great. Can this be ordered through your shop/company, or is there some other way?

    Edit: IB66, sorry for this intermezzo.
    Last edited by latej; 05-07-2021 at 04:15 PM.

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    #72
    the situation is difficult now, we will not buy from 729 for now. Try looking elsewhere.
    dhs-729.eu

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    #73
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    Thanks. I'd like to buy topsheets C.J.002, .003 and .005. Is there some info about the sponge hardnesses? Or, is the BLUE sponge the one used in Battle 2 BLUE Sponge? If so, I'd like to buy 3 of those in 0.5, i.e C.H.H013. Hardness H39 and more would be great. Can this be ordered through your shop/company, or is there some other way?

    Edit: IB66, sorry for this intermezzo.

    the situation is difficult now, we will not buy from 729 for now. Try looking elsewhere.

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    #74
    This is the reason why I am sticking my definition of what hybrid rubbers are before than what they being defined now.
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    #75
    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_bear
    This is the reason why I am sticking my definition of what hybrid rubbers are before than what they being defined now.
    Hi Yogi,

    How’s your COVID recovery going? Hope things are getting better for you.

    I agree that the ‘traditional’ definition is considered generally as a tacky rubber top sheet made by a Chinese company, combined with a sponge made by a Euro or Japanese company.
    So would a tacky rubber top sheet made in China, combined with a very dense, small pore hard sponge (traditional Chinese hard sponge clone) made by a European company be considered a ‘Hybrid’ rubber ?

    Possibly, when the ‘traditional’ Hybrid rubbers started appearing, it may have been just easier for the companies to have an arrangement to borrow each other’s products.

    However the likes of BTY’s Tackiness D, which has been around for years, Tacky top sheet (Japanese or Chinese rubber ??, likely to be BTY’s own)
    which also has a reasonably hard sponge 38/51 degrees depending on the shore scale used, is pretty close, 1 degree less than a 39/52 degree H3.

    So should Tackiness D be considered as having ‘hybrid’ characteristics???? (Although the sponge was not in the class of today’s BTY spring sponges) or was it at the time of its release to the market considered BTY’s effort at cloning a tacky Chinese rubber??

    At the end of the day, manufacturers were basically interested in combining the characteristics of both bouncy sponges and tacky top sheets.

    As I posted earlier in this thread, Characteristics are what I am trying to concentrate on.

    If anyone out there can come up with another nicely compact phrase or word for rubbers covering the ‘gap’ between CTR’s and ‘very bouncy, grippy Euro/Japanese rubbers then great!!

    I’m more than happy to use such a term!! 😀

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    Jul 2020
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    #76
    Thanks for the ranking, it was very useful, despite the difficulty that exists to objectively measure many of the characteristics ... everything could be objectively tested but it would maybe require complex machinery, slow cameras, etc., and a lot of time and money.

    In my personal experience, I have played on BH with Big Dipper (BH), Sieger Pk50 (BH), Rakza Z (FH and BH) and Dignics 09 C (FH and BH), also with Hurricane 8 soft on my BH. Those are the ones I've played the longest. I have also tested a short time: yasaka rising dragon, shining dragon, hovering dragon, thunder dragon, rakza X. Of all these, rising seemed the best for the FH and I understand that it is quite successful in Japan, but maybe I'm wrong because not I understand Japanese, although it is well raked on tt-japan dot net. Then, the one I liked the most of those for the backhand is hovering dragon, fast, less sticky than Rakza Z and with a lower shooting angle ... but very good rubber. Shining dragon seemed too soft, with little power, and hovering dragon I liked more, but still too soft ... Rakza X is good too for BH.

    Of the ones I played the longest, in the end the best rubber for my BH was Rakza Z because it allowed me to kill the effect of the sliced balls, being able to attack them with top and opening the offensive exchange or scoring winners. Rakza Z can be very violent on a Viscaria, and is also powerful on an Acoustic LG.

    I use Victas Triple Double Extra in the FH because it seemed very hard for the BH, but I know that Koki Niwa uses it in the BH (of course, he is a professional and hits him harder than me); I love this rubber too, I find it similar to a boosted national H3 (the best one, but very expensive because it last just 1 month or so), and to a Yinhe Jupiter 3 tour or a DPR Korea team: all those rubbers are really similar ... maybe Victas TDE has a slightly higher throw angle than them ? I don't know, but the feeling is beautiful.

    What surprises me a lot about the Victas TDE is that my friends who do not play with Chinese rubbers, when they have tried it, they have not had as much difficulty as with the h3, it is seen that the angle of fire is not that low, although it is more lower than that of rakza Z.

    I also love Sieger PK50 for the BH but I think it is a faster tire and it is harder for me to lift slice.

    H8 soft red is less reactive but very precise, it has given me good satisfaction.
    Argentina.
    Equipment: Yinhe V-14 Pro, Jupiter II Black, H8 Red ||| Stiga Infinity VPS, Yinhe Big Dipper

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