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  1. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #41
    Do wish we could have seen you returning serves from someone who serves more than just simple, undisguised, topspin serves though. Seeing you respond to a variety of serves with backspin, sidespin etc, would be illuminating in helping to see whether you really would do fine upping the speed of your blade.
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  2. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula
    I think that if you change to a blade that is much faster you proably will win more points but i believe your developement will be not as good as with a slower blade. I think you thinking correctly when you are thinking about trying a faster 5-ply. Extra offenisve like someone said is proably one of the more affordable blades and you can use it like forever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula
    I have a hard time seeing that his current equipment is limiting his skills. Feel like the majority think that they can have faster equipment like you are saying and win more balls in the now but they have enough insigth or knowledge to see that it is limiting their potential for development. But, of course it can also be like you say that the the faster equipment is manageable for the player but i think this is not the case so often. The best would still be if he can try other friends rackets or blades.

    Baal;344938
    The only way to know is to try one. But the best way is to hit with a clubmate's racket before buying. Saves money.
    These posts are worth reading and understanding. To me, these are the most important posts in this thread.

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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 05-06-2021 at 01:57 AM.
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  3. Николай Петров is offline
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    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Yeah. I would say you could stay with what you have. You could go up a notch. I don't see you need it from the video. I do see what Lula said about how you hold the ball before you toss. If you did that in a competition, lots of umpires would call you on that. The rule states that the ball needs to be motionless in the open, upward facing palm, presented to the opponent before the toss. I would get used to holding the hand still with the palm facing up for a count of 2 or 3 before you toss. Interestingly, it will actually help other things about your serve as well.

    Nothing bad happens from using a slower blade that makes you work harder and makes you reset faster. Only good things come from that.

    But, if you got a new, faster blade, I don't think I would recommend an Infinity or a Rosewood for you.

    I would say you would be better off with something like a Xiom Offensive S, Simple, inexpensive, plays like a faster version of what you have so it will be easy to get used to....it would be fine to get something like that whenever you want. It will be a good step up in speed from where you are without being too big a step up.

    Can’t find penhold handle for xiom offensive s maybe something with similar characteristics would be good too maybe yasaka extra offensive?

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    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Николай Петров

    Can’t find penhold handle for xiom offensive s maybe something with similar characteristics would be good too maybe yasaka extra offensive?

    Yes, that's the point, cpen versions of Xiom Offensive S are difficult to get, that's why I didn't suggest it. Xiom Offensive S is not like YEO, it has the same Limba-Ayous construction as your Allround Classic, Primorac Off-, Korbel and OSP Virtuoso (they differ in weight, headsize, thickness, speed). Yeo has walnut-spruce-ayous I think. It has a harder touch and is faster. I stick to my Rosewood recommendation. It's very good blade and when you decide to change your blade in the future it's something you can grow on and play with for a long time.

    Last edited by MK73; 05-06-2021 at 07:30 AM.

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    #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Николай Петров

    Maybe Stiga Clipper would be a good choice then for me as a penholder?

    I was going to suggest the same ... Infinity VPS too is a good option ..

    You could also look at Butterfly Petr Korbel, or Tibhar Stratus Powerwood, if you want to stick with 5-ply.. However, I'm not sure if these are available in C-pen.

    Also, check-out the Stiga Nostalgic series of blades..

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    #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Николай Петров

    So on impact point I need more whipping power and going into the ball more is that what you are saying?

    What I am saying is the timing to impact needs more consistency. You have enough power for now, your issue is you do not time the fast end of your whip at the point of impact at the right time. You also mis-judge the point of impact. You also mis-judge where the ball will go. (which is pretty much the same thing)

    This is not an easy thing to get correct all the time if one starts as an adult player. it is a fine motor skill. It also involves a skill or reading what is on the ball and where it will go exactly when. These are not eask skills to develop quickly as an adult learner. Just about all adults struggle with this to a large degree.

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    #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte

    What I am saying is the timing to impact needs more consistency. You have enough power for now, your issue is you do not time the fast end of your whip at the point of impact at the right time. You also mis-judge the point of impact. You also mis-judge where the ball will go. (which is pretty much the same thing)

    This is not an easy thing to get correct all the time if one starts as an adult player. it is a fine motor skill. It also involves a skill or reading what is on the ball and where it will go exactly when. These are not eask skills to develop quickly as an adult learner. Just about all adults struggle with this to a large degree.

    I understand you now can you give me specific training drills to practice that or any hints for a faster way to fix that?


  8. latej is offline
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    #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Funk Fu Master
    I was going to suggest the same ... Infinity VPS too is a good option ..
    Because of what? It's revspin rating???

  9. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #49
    Quote Originally Posted by MK73

    Yes, that's the point, cpen versions of Xiom Offensive S are difficult to get, that's why I didn't suggest it. Xiom Offensive S is not like YEO, it has the same Limba-Ayous construction as your Allround Classic, Primorac Off-, Korbel and OSP Virtuoso (they differ in weight, headsize, thickness, speed). Yeo has walnut-spruce-ayous I think. It has a harder touch and is faster. I stick to my Rosewood recommendation. It's very good blade and when you decide to change your blade in the future it's something you can grow on and play with for a long time.

    Just a clarification:

    Stiga Allround Classic: Limba-Ayous-Ayous-Ayous-Limba

    Offensive S: Limba-Ayous-Ayous-Ayous-Limba

    Primorac & Korbel: Limba-Limba-Ayous-Limba-Limba

    Yes, they all have Limba and Ayous. But the Limba-Limba-Ayous construction is very different in playing characteristics than the Limba-Ayous-Ayous construction.

    I personally like Limba-Limba. But it is worth noting the diffence.

    For something more lively: Limba-Spruce-Ayous-Spruce-Limba will feel more alive and faster than either of the above, but it will hold the ball for less making it take more skill to spin. Limba-Limba holds the ball for longer than Limba-Ayous and feels more muted but allows you to generate more spin.

    In the end, it is a choice. Lots of good options. But I did not realize that the Offensive S was hard to get in a penhold grip.

    Yasaka Sweden Extra, it is different, it has a harder top ply than Limba. But it would also be a good choice that is not too big a speed jump. Where, I think, the Extra Offensive may be a bigger speed jump than would be productive based on what I saw in the video.

    Rosewood and Infinity: because they top ply of those blades is HARDENED, and they are trying to fancy, fast, all wood, they cost way more than they should and they may not be the best choice for value or for speed. They are both probably a bit faster than you should use. Not much, but more than would be productive, in my opinion, based on what I saw.

    However, I do still think the best option for your continued development is to continue using what you already have. Try the rackets of friends like Baal suggested, but continue using what you have at least for the next 6 months to a year.

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    #50
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    Because of what? It's revspin rating???

    Is that what you do ..? Which is why, perhaps, you feel the rest of us do the same ...


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    #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Funk Fu Master

    Is that what you do ..? Which is why, perhaps, you feel the rest of us do the same ...


    That's what I thought.


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    #52
    Rosewood and Infinity: because they top ply of those blades is HARDENED, and they are trying to fancy, fast, all wood, they cost way more than they should and they may not be the best choice for value or for speed. They are both probably a bit faster than you should use. Not much, but more than would be productive, in my opinion, based on what I saw.

    I still don't think that the Rosewood is too fast. It has the same speed level as the Korbel, different feel (its a tad harder because of the special nct treatment), but same speed.I have played with both blades, but let me also quote ttgearlab:

    "Rosewood NCT V shows very common characteristics of standard offensive 5-ply wood blade. Especially it is very close to Butterfly Korbel. It can be the alternative of Butterfly Korbel if the difference of shape will not be a problem."

    OP has to decide whether he wants to have a blade with a harder or softer feel if he wants to change in the future (Korbel vs. Rosewood). But does Butterfly sell c-pen Korbel blades? I suggested that blade because OP said that he liked to stay close to the table and I think the Rosewood quite good for that because its a bit thicker which is helpful for blocks. At the same time it can generate a lot of spin.

    Another thing is that c-pen blades are much lighter than shakehand blades, so the harder outer ply might compensate for the lack of power.

    With regard to the price: yes, the Rosewood is more expensive. You pay about 90 Euros for a Korbel (Japan) and 109 Euros for a Rosewood (at least in a German tt online shop). OP has to decide.


  13. Николай Петров is offline
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    #53
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Just a clarification:

    Stiga Allround Classic: Limba-Ayous-Ayous-Ayous-Limba

    Offensive S: Limba-Ayous-Ayous-Ayous-Limba

    Primorac & Korbel: Limba-Limba-Ayous-Limba-Limba

    Yes, they all have Limba and Ayous. But the Limba-Limba-Ayous construction is very different in playing characteristics than the Limba-Ayous-Ayous construction.

    I personally like Limba-Limba. But it is worth noting the diffence.

    For something more lively: Limba-Spruce-Ayous-Spruce-Limba will feel more alive and faster than either of the above, but it will hold the ball for less making it take more skill to spin. Limba-Limba holds the ball for longer than Limba-Ayous and feels more muted but allows you to generate more spin.

    In the end, it is a choice. Lots of good options. But I did not realize that the Offensive S was hard to get in a penhold grip.

    Yasaka Sweden Extra, it is different, it has a harder top ply than Limba. But it would also be a good choice that is not too big a speed jump. Where, I think, the Extra Offensive may be a bigger speed jump than would be productive based on what I saw in the video.

    Rosewood and Infinity: because they top ply of those blades is HARDENED, and they are trying to fancy, fast, all wood, they cost way more than they should and they may not be the best choice for value or for speed. They are both probably a bit faster than you should use. Not much, but more than would be productive, in my opinion, based on what I saw.

    However, I do still think the best option for your continued development is to continue using what you already have. Try the rackets of friends like Baal suggested, but continue using what you have at least for the next 6 months to a year.

    Thanks for the response carl I will be on stand by for now until I improve more and thanks for the explanation on the blade compositions.

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  14. latej is offline
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    #54
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Just a clarification:

    Stiga Allround Classic: Limba-Ayous-Ayous-Ayous-Limba

    Offensive S: Limba-Ayous-Ayous-Ayous-Limba

    Primorac & Korbel: Limba-Limba-Ayous-Limba-Limba

    Yes, they all have Limba and Ayous. But the Limba-Limba-Ayous construction is very different in playing characteristics than the Limba-Ayous-Ayous construction.

    I personally like Limba-Limba. But it is worth noting the diffence.

    For something more lively: Limba-Spruce-Ayous-Spruce-Limba will feel more alive and faster than either of the above, but it will hold the ball for less making it take more skill to spin. Limba-Limba holds the ball for longer than Limba-Ayous and feels more muted but allows you to generate more spin.

    In the end, it is a choice. Lots of good options. But I did not realize that the Offensive S was hard to get in a penhold grip.

    Yasaka Sweden Extra, it is different, it has a harder top ply than Limba. But it would also be a good choice that is not too big a speed jump. Where, I think, the Extra Offensive may be a bigger speed jump than would be productive based on what I saw in the video.

    Rosewood and Infinity: because they top ply of those blades is HARDENED, and they are trying to fancy, fast, all wood, they cost way more than they should and they may not be the best choice for value or for speed. They are both probably a bit faster than you should use. Not much, but more than would be productive, in my opinion, based on what I saw.

    However, I do still think the best option for your continued development is to continue using what you already have. Try the rackets of friends like Baal suggested, but continue using what you have at least for the next 6 months to a year.
    Thanks for the clarifications about the composition. I learned though, that it is not a sufficient condition. For example, Viscaria has Koto outer. I like it, but like you, I prefer limba. So I bought Yinhe V16, identical, but with limba outer. Yet it can't be compared with Viscaria, it is faster, less hold, gives strange cracking sound, has also higher frequency. So I learned that unless you play it, you don't really know. I know this is basics for you, but I wanted to write anyway.

    On the other hand, ttgearlab's measurement always so far precisely conincided with the blades and their feeling for me. So I value that site highly. Only once, they say HL5 is same as PG5, I tried PG5 and it was just somewhat fuzzy. It has hold, but the feedback is not very clear. But I think I simply just can't wish more from the blade which costs 25E.

    I agree absolutely with your paragraph about Infinity. This is simply the most overrated blade. It can be suitable for certain style, just not for OPs, and for mine neither. With Rosewood, I never tried it, however, since I by-experience believe ttgearlab, it looks for me very well in the range suitable for OP.

    To OP I'd say, it's good you try to stay low. You can even try to over-do it. I try as well to stay lower. With your FH topspin, the preparatory phase looks good, you rotate your body to the right and you help yourself with your non-playing hand, which gets into good position. But the hitting-phase seems to be done initially mostly by the playing hand, and not enough by the body. Which is proved by your non-playing hand - it stays in its position almost to the point where you hit the ball. If you had rotated the body, the non-playing hand would automatically get more to the left, at hit-time. That can serve as an indication. HTH.

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  15. Der_Echte is offline
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    #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Николай Петров

    I understand you now can you give me specific training drills to practice that or any hints for a faster way to fix that?

    There isn't a "Fast" or "Faster" way. You might help yourself out during practice by trying to use a little less power, a little lighter grip, and focus on meeting the ball in the right part of the impact zone... get that right first... get that right consistently, then progressively use more speed/power on the swing with a firming right at impact.

    That isn't the only way, but going that way will help you out a year or two down the road, instead of staying one's entire life missing the ball or not being on time at point of impact.

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    #56
    if you want 7 ply, which will give you more support, consider Clipper (non cr)
    if you want to stick with 5 ply, samsonov powerwood
    but whichever blade you get, footwork always comes first, shoulder, arm, hand, and blade come second
    Last edited by virtuososiu; 05-06-2021 at 10:15 PM.

  17. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #57
    Quote Originally Posted by MK73

    I still don't think that the Rosewood is too fast. It has the same speed level as the Korbel, different feel (its a tad harder because of the special nct treatment), but same speed.I have played with both blades, but let me also quote ttgearlab:

    You might notice I did not recommend the Korbel either. The blades I recommended were faster than Allround Classic and slower than Korbel, or Rosewood, or Clipper...... Based on what I saw in the video, in my opinion, he might be able to get away with playing with those blades without realizing they are too fast for him. But they would still slow his development more than would be beneficial. Whereas, something a little slower, but still faster than the Allround Classic would be good.


    Another idea would be the Stiga Allround Evolution.


    But it sounds like OP is being mature and sticking with what he has.
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    Thanks for the clarifications about the composition. I learned though, that it is not a sufficient condition. For example, Viscaria has Koto outer. I like it, but like you, I prefer limba. So I bought Yinhe V16, identical, but with limba outer. Yet it can't be compared with Viscaria, it is faster, less hold, gives strange cracking sound, has also higher frequency. So I learned that unless you play it, you don't really know. I know this is basics for you, but I wanted to write anyway.
    A blade made with very similar plies by two different companies with different techniques for treating the wood, gluing the plies.....etc it is unlikely you will get things that feel similar. You could try hundreds of "Viscaria Clones". None of them really feel like a Viscaria.


    Anything I say about the feeling of a blade comes from having had many of that same blade in my hand. So what I said about Limba-Limba blades, I could say a lot more. OSP's Virtuoso and Virtuoso + have much more feeling than a Butterfly Korbel or Primorac. That has to do with how the two different blade makers make their blades. All 4 of those blades are awesome. I would be happy using any one of them. But the OSP blades will feel crisper and more alive. The Butterfly blades will feel solid and (duller is not quite the right word because it sounds like something that isn't good, but it is less vibrant in a sort of good way).


    A Korbel or a Primorac does not feel anything like a faster version of an Allround Classic. But a Offensive S or an Allround Evolution, they do sort of feel like a faster version of the same blade. Evolution more so than the S. Offensive S is faster than the Allround Evolution. So, maybe the Allround Evolution would be an even better choice. Not sure if they make that with a penhold grip.


    Again, I am not saying any of that from something I have read. I have played with enough different versions of any of those blades that it is something I experienced. However, everyone feels things differently. So, someone else could say something different and still have a valid point.
    latej;344999
    On the other hand, ttgearlab's measurement always so far precisely conincided with the blades and their feeling for me. So I value that site highly. Only once, they say HL5 is same as PG5, I tried PG5 and it was just somewhat fuzzy. It has hold, but the feedback is not very clear. But I think I simply just can't wish more from the blade which costs 25E.
    Wood comes from something that was once alive. If you took 20 PG5s they would all feel different. Particularly something like a DHS blade that is not one of their premium blades and which costs a very low price, the quality control on those is not something they pay too much attention to. So, I have played a few PG5s. I did not like any of them. But some felt much nicer, crisper, clearer to me than others.
    latej;344999
    With Rosewood, I never tried it, however, since I by-experience believe ttgearlab, it looks for me very well in the range suitable for OP.
    As I said above, I am of the belief that something the speed of a Rosewood V, Korbel, Tibhar Stratus Power Wood, Clipper.... and many other blades, are a little faster than would be beneficial, at this point in time, for the OP.


    It is true he gets to decide. I think he is making an excellent decision to not get a new blade. In a year, Blades in the speed category of Korbel or Rosewood might be perfect. I just think those would slow his development at this point, based on the stuff I saw in his video. It is true, other people are entitled to have a different opinion. I am stating mine.

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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 05-07-2021 at 01:23 AM.
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    #58
    I can't see anybody mentioning Stiga Offensive Classic. One of my favorite blades ever. I don't currently own one, but I will get one eventually. One of my buddies has a real nice one. It is great for almost beginner and experienced players alike. Not slow and not too fast and good for Your wallet too. There is a reason they still make it... I think it deserves being mentioned in this context.

    Cheers
    L-zr

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    Last edited by Lazer; 05-07-2021 at 05:13 PM.

  19. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    I can't see anybody mentioning Stiga Offensive Classic. One of my favorite blades ever. I don't currently own own one, but I will get one eventually. One of my buddies has a real nice one. It is great for almost beginner and experienced players alike. Not slow and not too fast and good for Your wallet too. There is a reason they still make it... I think it deserves being mentioned in this context.

    Cheers
    L-zr
    I agree and think it would be a good blade for the OP.
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    #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    I can't see anybody mentioning Stiga Offensive Classic. One of my favorite blades ever. I don't currently own own one, but I will get one eventually. One of my buddies has a real nice one. It is great for almost beginner and experienced players alike. Not slow and not too fast and good for Your wallet too. There is a reason they still make it... I think it deserves being mentioned in this context.

    Cheers
    L-zr

    Agree also. This blade is just amazing. My only problem with is is transitioning out of it since it has this unique feel.

    Sleep Eat TT Repeat
    https://bit.ly/2K5tNbk

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