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  1. Николай Петров is offline
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    #1

    Short and Long Stroke Players

    So guys really confused topic for me how do people divide short and long stroke players the only really short stroke player I know is Robert Gardos and probably Ma Long and Xu Xin have a little bit longer strokes than others but that is all just small difference based on technique and how is there different equipment recommended for each type? I think most professional players have good long and complete stroke on backhand and forehand and if the stroke it short it wont be complete that is how I understand it. Probably you can use shorter stroke close to the table but still idk if some one has any idea what those internet coaches mean by short and long stroke players would be great and how are some blades for short and some for long stroke players?

  2. Lula is offline
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    #2
    What is a short stroke and what is a long stroke?

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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula
    What is a short stroke and what is a long stroke?

    I think he means the amount of swing when doing forehand loops in this particular case.

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  4. Николай Петров is offline
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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_bear

    I think he means the amount of swing when doing forehand loops in this particular case.

    Yeah forehand and backhand topspin stroke the distance the arm travels I guess from impai the beginning of the stroke to the end.


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    #5
    Yes, but i meant it is hard to discuss since we really do not have any definition what is long and what is short 😁 As long as the stroke is functional for youtr style of play and have good quality then it is good!

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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Николай Петров
    So guys really confused topic for me how do people divide short and long stroke players the only really short stroke player I know is Robert Gardos and probably Ma Long and Xu Xin have a little bit longer strokes than others but that is all just small difference based on technique and how is there different equipment recommended for each type? I think most professional players have good long and complete stroke on backhand and forehand and if the stroke it short it wont be complete that is how I understand it. Probably you can use shorter stroke close to the table but still idk if some one has any idea what those internet coaches mean by short and long stroke players would be great and how are some blades for short and some for long stroke players?

    I assume you are talking about FH strokes. You talk as if a player only uses a short or long stroke. It depends on the situation and the time available.
    Short strokes would be better as long as the paddle reaches the desired contact speed. The problem is that the acceleration must be higher when using short strokes so there is more stress on the body.

    I have never heard of the term long or short stroke players. What does it matter? In the end you must do what works at the time.


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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Николай Петров
    So guys really confused topic for me how do people divide short and long stroke players the only really short stroke player I know is Robert Gardos and probably Ma Long and Xu Xin have a little bit longer strokes than others but that is all just small difference based on technique and how is there different equipment recommended for each type? I think most professional players have good long and complete stroke on backhand and forehand and if the stroke it short it wont be complete that is how I understand it. Probably you can use shorter stroke close to the table but still idk if some one has any idea what those internet coaches mean by short and long stroke players would be great and how are some blades for short and some for long stroke players?
    There is what is called variation of swings. Depending on your recovery and how fast you are. Large swings are ideal but there are times your swings are shorter if you are out of position l.
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  8. Gozo is offline
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    #8
    Here is my take:

    Short stroke: Elbow is closer to the body, Better control and faster recovery time. Best for those who play fast counter attacker near table style. Example Harimoto and many female pro players uses this style.

    Long stroke: Elbow is further from body. Utilise whole body whipping motion to generate massive power. Playing style is best for power looper mid to far table. Classic example is Ma Long and Dima.

    Hope this helps.

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    #9
    This totally depends on how far you are from the table and how fast the ball is approaching you. Ma Long doesn't take a long swing if he is 2' behind the table. He doesn't like to be only 2' off, so he is called a long-stroke player. The ultimate short-stroke player I guess is LSW. But if she got pushed back a few meters her stroke would magically become long. I don't think this is a relevant way to categorize players, and definitely not a good way for amateurs to select equipment, unless you mean something different from how I took it.

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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Brs
    This totally depends on how far you are from the table and how fast the ball is approaching you. Ma Long doesn't take a long swing if he is 2' behind the table. He doesn't like to be only 2' off, so he is called a long-stroke player. The ultimate short-stroke player I guess is LSW. But if she got pushed back a few meters her stroke would magically become long. I don't think this is a relevant way to categorize players, and definitely not a good way for amateurs to select equipment, unless you mean something different from how I took it.

    Ma long does long swings near the table especially on initial opening loops or if he is in position to do so.

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    #11
    Probably this has to do with their fh rubber, to some extent.

    H3 especially at 42 degree requires a large force to activate the blue sponge. Whereas Tenergy rubber requires less force to be activated.

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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by SFF_lib
    Probably this has to do with their fh rubber, to some extent.

    H3 especially at 42 degree requires a large force to activate the blue sponge. Whereas Tenergy rubber requires less force to be activated.

    Also, with the blade or both. If you are using a Sardius with T64, you need a lesser amount of swing because of the greater speed the combo will offer you.

    Last edited by yogi_bear; 06-07-2021 at 12:16 PM.
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  13. Gozo is offline
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    #13
    Something further for me to add:

    1. A long stroker would probably benefit from a more flexy blade with tacky rubber which produces a spinnier curvature ( low throw ) trajectory.

    2. A short stroker would benefit from a stiffer blade and bouncier rubber if his / her playstyle is a hitter.

    3. A short stroker would benefit from a stiffer blade with softer gripper rubber if hes / her play style is a controlled looper style.

    I may be wrong, but this is how I feel.

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  14. Funk Fu Master is offline
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by SFF_lib
    Probably this has to do with their fh rubber, to some extent.

    H3 especially at 42 degree requires a large force to activate the blue sponge. Whereas Tenergy rubber requires less force to be activated.

    wait .. so, you're saying that their stroke-style depends on the rubber/blade they use .. ?

    Dang !!! I've been playing for 30+ years, and all these years I thought, that the rubber/blade depends on the stroke-style, and not the other way around.... Now, I'm going to buy the most expensive rubber & blade - That ought to raise my level to atleast semi-pro..


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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo
    Something further for me to add:

    1. A long stroker would probably benefit from a more flexy blade with tacky rubber which produces a spinnier curvature ( low throw ) trajectory.

    2. A short stroker would benefit from a stiffer blade and bouncier rubber if his / her playstyle is a hitter.

    3. A short stroker would benefit from a stiffer blade with softer gripper rubber if hes / her play style is a controlled looper style.

    I may be wrong, but this is how I feel.

    Yep ... I have a long stroke, with an exaggerated back-swing, and even follow-through, on both, my FH and BH, and I prefer hardish / tacky rubbers/sponges....

    I've tried T05 several times, but never quite liked it ... .can't exactly say why .. Recently, I tried a T05 Hard, and found it to be a lot better, comparatively.. .. same with Dingus 09C... I also prefer the H3N and MX-S to T05 .. probably for the same reason..


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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Funk Fu Master

    wait .. so, you're saying that their stroke-style depends on the rubber/blade they use .. ?

    Dang !!! I've been playing for 30+ years, and all these years I thought, that the rubber/blade depends on the stroke-style, and not the other way around.... Now, I'm going to buy the most expensive rubber & blade - That ought to raise my level to atleast semi-pro..

    Stroke-style probably has to do with who you were coached by and how your peers played. The stroke would probably be adapted if you played with a very hard rubber compared to a softer rubber.

    Longer swings with efficient technique means higher racket speed in comparison to a shorter swing assuming the technique is equal. All pro players can shorten their stroke when they need to i.e. against a faster ball or when they're close to the table. With softer rubbers there's less need to maximize swing speed so you don't need to have a very long swing as you'll likely bottom out the rubber the softer it is.

    Therefore, if you use a longer swing (with good technique so you have fast swing speed) for a softer rubber you're likely bottom it out and there was no need to use a longer swing when you'd get similar output with a shorter swing, which could be better for recovery time. Most players probably don't think about this and have just intuitively adapted their swings or they haven't and don't need to because their technique is so good that they'll get enough racket speed even with a bent arm or shorter backswing.

    What SFF_lib said is a part of the story. It's possible that if you use hard tacky rubbers you intuitively realize you need faster racket speed and assuming your technique is already good, a way to get faster racket speed is to use a longer backswing and a straight arm swing. If you use euro rubbers you might intuitively realize you don't need a long swing and that a bent arm swing is sufficient. For the top players all of this was probably learnt pretty early on..






  17. Der_Echte is offline
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    #17
    Tha incoming ball is going to make the player decide what to do. The position (bot in relation to table and the ball) and potential return will have a say in that decision making if one is prudent.

    ,,, but what the heck, not everyone is prudent or prudent often enough.

    Some situations, even away from the table, it may behoove one to use a compact stroke... often this involves not so optimal position.

    One easy way to piss away points like water is to use a real aggressive swing when not in position and/or when you mis-judge ball arrival time, coordinates, and vector.
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  18. Funk Fu Master is offline
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    #18
    One easy way to piss away points like water is to use a real aggressive swing when not in position and/or when you mis-judge ball arrival time, coordinates, and vector.
    guilty on most counts.. especially with gentle side-spin to my extreme FH .. I'll swing to hit a FH top-spin, and completely miss the ball..

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    #19
    The ball doesn't care if you use a long stroke or a short stroke as long as the speed of impact and where the impact on the ball occurs is the same. Short strokes require a higher acceleration to reach the same speed. Higher accelerations are harder on the body.




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