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  1. Quinten is offline
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    #1

    Help with "feel"

    Good day. I am trying to understand what it is I am feeling with different set ups. I have been playing “seriously” only for the past year. But I have just reached a point where I notice the vibration and also sound of different blades when contacting the ball. My friend just got a new Stiga Offensive Classic (Limba/Spruce/Ayous) with Tenergy 80FX. I have been playing a Tibhar Pure Wood (Koto/Mahogany/Samba) with T 80FX along with an OSP Virtuoso Off-. I tried his Stiga and noticed right away the higher vibration and “hollow” sound it produced. It made me go back and forth through all of my blades to try and figure out if I liked that feel or not.
    Is this “feel” from the type of wood used to make these blades, and or process? I know lots of people talk about how they like the feel of Limba. Is it the “vibration” from the wood that they love? Or is it the softness of the surface, (related to dwell time)?
    I also determined that I prefer a more muted or dense feel. My Tibhar and even my Butterfly Innerforce Layer ALC (Limba/Limba/Carbon/Ayous) have way less vibration, slightly higher pitch and more solid feel to them over my OSP and Donic Persson Power allaround (both have more vibration).
    Am I missing out if I “learn” with blades that are more muted? What do I look for in the composition to help me know how a blade might feel?

  2. yogi_bear is offline
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    #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Quinten
    Good day. I am trying to understand what it is I am feeling with different set ups. I have been playing “seriously” only for the past year. But I have just reached a point where I notice the vibration and also sound of different blades when contacting the ball. My friend just got a new Stiga Offensive Classic (Limba/Spruce/Ayous) with Tenergy 80FX. I have been playing a Tibhar Pure Wood (Koto/Mahogany/Samba) with T 80FX along with an OSP Virtuoso Off-. I tried his Stiga and noticed right away the higher vibration and “hollow” sound it produced. It made me go back and forth through all of my blades to try and figure out if I liked that feel or not.
    Is this “feel” from the type of wood used to make these blades, and or process? I know lots of people talk about how they like the feel of Limba. Is it the “vibration” from the wood that they love? Or is it the softness of the surface, (related to dwell time)?
    I also determined that I prefer a more muted or dense feel. My Tibhar and even my Butterfly Innerforce Layer ALC (Limba/Limba/Carbon/Ayous) have way less vibration, slightly higher pitch and more solid feel to them over my OSP and Donic Persson Power allaround (both have more vibration).
    Am I missing out if I “learn” with blades that are more muted? What do I look for in the composition to help me know how a blade might feel?
    Stiga blades are known to have greater vibrations than other brands due its hollow handle design. Although other brands have hollow handles too, stiga has somewhat much more.
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  3. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #3
    How a blade feels to an individual person is a personal thing. You are allowed to like blades that have a more solid feel. I know lots of people who do not like the feeling of the Stiga Offensive Classic. I think it feels too hollow as well.

    Feeling in general: The way a blade feels should be distinguished from the player's ability to feel the ball's contact with the blade face (surface of rubber while glued to the blade). This is a skill that people have in varying degrees. But it is also a skill that can be developed....cultivated....and that develops over time as your skills in TT improve.

    Learning how to spin the ball, loop, push, serve, with delicate, tangential contact (brushing), while controlling the depth that the ball penetrates into the topsheet and sponge, help the skills of a TT player increase. For a player who does not have a lot of those skills of how to spin the ball or ways to touch the ball to increase spin, a blade that allows you to feel the ball contact better can help you increase those kinds of skills.

    A slower, all wood blade, can help you learn how to apply power into your stroke as well. But the more important skill is how you touch and contact the ball. So, that is a different discussion on feeling than the question you are asking.

    In the hands of a skilled player, whether the top ply is hard or soft, whether the blade has carbon or not, will not really make a difference because a skilled player will know how to contact the ball in a way to generate spin and power.

    However, for a player who is developing those skills, having a blade with carbon would block the players ability to feel the ball to some extent and could slow progress. Having a harder top ply could also cause the ball to leave the blade face too fast for the developing player to learn how to get the rubber and sponge to really grab onto the ball.

    So, for a higher level player, these things don't make much difference. For most of us, a blade that allows you to feel enough of the ball contact and allows you to learn how to get the rubber to grab onto the ball, will help you develop those skills.

    An Inner Fiber carbon blade should also not interfere too much with your ability to feel the ball on contact. So, maybe not as ideal as an all wood blade. But it still would be fine. A talented junior can often ignore all of the above and play with anything and still improve. Adult learners need more help than kids.

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    #4
    Personally, I tend to avoid blades that vibrate excessively because they cause me tennis elbow, a reason why I did not like few Stiga blades I tested. Maybe I'm a special case.

  5. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by pilami
    Personally, I tend to avoid blades that vibrate excessively because they cause me tennis elbow, a reason why I did not like few Stiga blades I tested. Maybe I'm a special case.
    Everyone has a right to their own personal choices of what they actually like. And when there is an actual issue, like, vibrations from a blade aggravating issues with a preexistent condition, then that is a good reason not to use a blade that has a lot of vibration. I also, don't equate "vibration" with the feeling you want from a blade. I would distinguish between vibrations you feel in your hand that are overpowering and distracting and don't feel good. With the feeling from a blade that allows you to feel the ball contact.

    But, the choice of what feels good to an individual really needs to be an individual choice. And a personal choice that has ramifications for the health of your elbow would need to be respected.

    I personally stopped liking Stiga blades a long time ago because, even though, some of them feel really good to me (not OC), they are invariably easy to break and seem to lack good finishing and manufacturing quality.

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    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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  6. IB66 is offline
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Everyone has a right to their own personal choices of what they actually like. And when there is an actual issue, like, vibrations from a blade aggravating issues with a preexistent condition, then that is a good reason not to use a blade that has a lot of vibration. I also, don't equate "vibration" with the feeling you want from a blade. I would distinguish between vibrations you feel in your hand that are overpowering and distracting and don't feel good. With the feeling from a blade that allows you to feel the ball contact.

    But, the choice of what feels good to an individual really needs to be an individual choice. And a personal choice that has ramifications for the health of your elbow would need to be respected.

    I personally stopped liking Stiga blades a long time ago because, even though, some of them feel really good to me (not OC), they are invariably easy to break and seem to lack good finishing and manufacturing quality.

    Yeah, the overpowering, distracting and don’t feel good vibrations are not desirable, it’s sort of as if the blade is amplifying the contract vibrations, So only the most perfect contacts feel right.
    On one hand it’ll make you want to hit ‘perfect’ strokes, but there’s a ‘margin of acceptability’ your confidence could take a knock if the ‘feel’ feels poor the majority of the time!!
    On the other hand a blade with no feel at all can make you think all your shots are just dandy!! May as well be a lump of 4 x 2!!!

    Finding the balance of how you would like your set up to feel can be frustrating and many get pulled into finding their perfect set up, again a margin of acceptability is advisable, in the ball park!!

    A poor (very poor!!!) golf shot results in the contact vibrations rattling up the shaft and into your fingers, hands and wrist, it ain’t nice and it hurts!!!
    So a blade with ‘muted’ feel is definitely a good idea if you have a injury or condition.

    It’s really very personal to each player!!

    Viscaria doesn’t give me the feel I really like, it’s still a superb blade!!
    but the all wood primorac does, as do the Appelgren Dotec control and my trusty old Grubba and many other all wood blades, ( the Dotec blade does have fibres but it doesn’t have the ‘feel’ of many carbon fleeces). Nittaku Acoustic and Acoustic inner have the feel I like, Acoustic inner with carbon layers, still feels extremely similar to the all wood Acoustic maybe 300mm to 450mm longer in shot length for a similarly played stroke, but they are getting a little more towards the edge of my personal ‘margin of acceptability’ for how I like a set up to feel Still really very good blades!!!
    Interestingly I’ve had a couple of Stiga blades -
    Allround Carbon classic - not a fast blade but I didn’t like it!! Gave them away!!
    Defensive Pro, which also has carbon layers, I like, still slow, for me it feels so much better than the Allround Carbon classic. Still not been interested in buying any Stiga blades whatsoever!!!

    Of course the choice of rubber effects how a set up feels as well !!!


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    #7
    Thanks for the direction guys. All good stuff. So I agree I don't want a set up that is mute. Just something that doesn't feel broken inside. IB66 you say a Primorac has a good feel. Does it fall into a fairly solid yet medium vibration type? And would the Korbel be the same? They are both Limba dominant blades. So Limba itself isn't necessarily the culprit of excessive vibration?
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    #8
    Hi,

    I haven’t used the Korbel so don’t know how it feels, Primorac all wood has a fairly solid feel but I get about the right amount of feedback from it for me!! Bear in mind feel varies person to person.
    Primorac is one of BTY best selling blades of all time!!! This speaks volumes in itself!!!

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Quinten
    Thanks for the direction guys. All good stuff. So I agree I don't want a set up that is mute. Just something that doesn't feel broken inside. IB66 you say a Primorac has a good feel. Does it fall into a fairly solid yet medium vibration type? And would the Korbel be the same? They are both Limba dominant blades. So Limba itself isn't necessarily the culprit of excessive vibration?
    I own a Primorac. It has a high degree of flex without a hollow feel.

    I reckon you should try Stiga Nostalgic ALL or OFF. I am using the OFF. It has a hard top ply and a soft mid ply. The overall feel is muted (little flex) but the feedback is good (thanks to the soft mid ply).


  10. yogi_bear is offline
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    #10
    The newer Stiga blades have lesser vibrations compared to the old ones even the all wood blades like Azalea or Energy wood v2.
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_bear
    The newer Stiga blades have lesser vibrations compared to the old ones even the all wood blades like Azalea or Energy wood v2.
    I've read all your reviews on Azalea. If not for the handle colour I would've bought one. Loving my nostalgic OFF so far. Good looking and great performance.

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    #12

    Another set of options to consider would be 7-ply allwoods. These generally have a nice, 'solid' (ie. not hollow) feel on contact. They also tend to give a bit more feedback than composite (ie. with carbon/synthetic layers) blades.

    7-ply allwoods range from 'not-much-more-powerful-than-a-powerful-5-ply' through to 'very-powerful'. There are others on this forum who have more knowledge than I do, but I think something like the Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro Blue is a good example of a quality blade at the tamer end of the spectrum and the Stiga Nostalgic VII is further towards the more extreme end. You can find a really helpful overview of a bunch of them here: https://ttgearlab.com/2017/02/16/sam...es-comparison/

    There's also a good variety of options in terms of outer ply and these will significantly influence how the blade feels at the instant you make contact with the ball. For example, those with Rosewood, Walnut, Wenge, Ebony or similar outer plies will feel sharper, whereas those with Limba, Spruce or Hinoki outer plies will feel softer.

    The main thing is, though, that 7-ply allwoods will give you a more solid feel (I think you said you prefer blades with a "dense" rather than "hollow" feeling) than 5-ply allwoods will, and they'll also give more feedback (thus helping you learn along the lines UpSideDownCarl explained in post #3 in this thread).

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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Manto76

    Another set of options to consider would be 7-ply allwoods. These generally have a nice, 'solid' (ie. not hollow) feel on contact. They also tend to give a bit more feedback than composite (ie. with carbon/synthetic layers) blades.

    7-ply allwoods range from 'not-much-more-powerful-than-a-powerful-5-ply' through to 'very-powerful'. There are others on this forum who have more knowledge than I do, but I think something like the Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro Blue is a good example of a quality blade at the tamer end of the spectrum and the Stiga Nostalgic VII is further towards the more extreme end. You can find a really helpful overview of a bunch of them here: https://ttgearlab.com/2017/02/16/sam...es-comparison/

    There's also a good variety of options in terms of outer ply and these will significantly influence how the blade feels at the instant you make contact with the ball. For example, those with Rosewood, Walnut, Wenge, Ebony or similar outer plies will feel sharper, whereas those with Limba, Spruce or Hinoki outer plies will feel softer.

    The main thing is, though, that 7-ply allwoods will give you a more solid feel (I think you said you prefer blades with a "dense" rather than "hollow" feeling) than 5-ply allwoods will, and they'll also give more feedback (thus helping you learn along the lines UpSideDownCarl explained in post #3 in this thread).

    Xiom Solo, Yinhe Pd 437, Sanwei Fextra, Clipper CR non-wrb are also good 7 ply blades.

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