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  1. Majkl is offline
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    #21
    Really cool, we need some vids from the match ASAP.

  2. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte
    I do not know, it's up to Adam if I ever appear in his vid... but the pic is a good one. We played and I got it to 2-2 and Adam's good serves were a game decider. Even with the poor light distribution on that one court we played, I dealt with what Adam gave me until he upped his serves. I would serve, got long underspin, then spin heavy. Adam noticed I improved since a decade ago. I did not really bite on his snakes, pounded a good number of them, but his UNDERSPIN snake got me a few times for sure. Our No 1 player lost to Adam 0-3
    Adam is really pretty solid.

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    Der_Echte

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  3. Der_Echte is offline
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    #23
    Adam has been solid 2100 plus for many years I think.

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  4. Der_Echte is offline
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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Takkyu_wa_inochi
    if you play against him, my advice is to watch his videos and whenever he does a snake, you try to guess which way its going by saying it loud

    if you do this training with all his videos, i think your brain can see the pattern and you can guess right and surprise him with powerful smashes
    Well Takkyu,

    The match happened. After losing games 1 and 2, I did better with his serveand also on my own attack. He didn't get me much on his usual snakes...however, his UNDERSPIN snake got me several times. By the end of game 4, he had a more business-like approach and upped his serve game to win game 5. Match was certainly entertaining to watch. I did very well on my heavy spin openers. Adam got me on a counter-smash where I reached too far to hit his lob and didn't get full leverage... I deserved what I got - smashed right back.

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  5. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte
    Well Takkyu,

    The match happened. After losing games 1 and 2, I did better with his serveand also on my own attack. He didn't get me much on his usual snakes...however, his UNDERSPIN snake got me several times. By the end of game 4, he had a more business-like approach and upped his serve game to win game 5. Match was certainly entertaining to watch. I did very well on my heavy spin openers. Adam got me on a counter-smash where I reached too far to hit his lob and didn't get full leverage... I deserved what I got - smashed right back.
    He is tough. People look at video and think they can handle him. But, you can't tell till you have faced him. I remember when me, Adam and Edmund hung out and messed around at Spin years ago, Edmund told me he was too good. High praise from a really solid player. Clearly Adam took it easy on me because he was way way better than me.

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    Takkyu_wa_inochi

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  6. Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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    #26
    he is very consistent at lobbing and his round the net shots from both wings.

    but i've noticed he doesn't seem too good at blocking especially handling spin.
    i think to beat him find some serves where he cannot get immediately in his lobbing game and attack with a lot of spin, then its about being able to attack relentlessly

    I think one needs special trading from watching his videos to "guess / read better" his snake moves

  7. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #27
    Looking at video is one thing. I would love to see you play him.

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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 07-01-2021 at 03:26 PM.
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  8. Der_Echte is offline
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    #28

    I think one needs special trading from watching his videos to "guess / read better" his snake moves

    It is NICE to handle a snake, but honestly, at our level, the snake is only a few points and big entertainment. (Which is good, because TT is supposed to be an entertainment business)

    At our level, serve and serve receive become much more important to the outcome of the match and also to how the match is played. What you do not see in a vid, and MUST experience live and up front is a good player's serves.

    When I could receive the serve with enough quality to NOT give away the point immediately, I won almost all those points with either my heavy spin opener (he blocked a LOT of those WAY OUT) or my Quarter Pounder shot. He wasn't gunna do much lobbing against either of those shots. Where he received my serve with enough quality to avoid my spin or pounder shot, he was able to play the point how he wanted.

    That is pretty much how it goes, not really about snakes. He was able to control the match with HIS serves better than I was with mine. My receive was not good enough long enough, especially not good enough in game 5 to win. I showed my offense, point construction, shot selection, and adjustments were way higher quality than a player of my level. I am extremely happy with that as I never showed this level of performance in a toruney at this level vs one player his level, let alone vs 5 players his level.

    I did not get any results vs Adam's level that tourney, but I troubled those 5 players so much, the player, the coach, and all the team mates were conducting a joint session of emergency crisis management with much concern over the outcome of the match. There is absolutely NO WAY I was doing this to players 3 levels better than me last year, zero chance.

    Here are some examples:

    * vs Matt Winkler - mid 2200s forever... lost game 1, went up 2-1, led 5-3 in 4th.
    * vs Adam Bobrow - caught up to 2-2 with monuentum on my side - he upped serves and showed he was better and deserved the W
    * vs Adam's team mate kayla mid 2100s - I went up 2-0 she had NO ANSWER, then someone told her how to serve and I lost 16-14 in 5th with several bad breaks
    * vs Alan , a C-Pen single sided medium pips guy former 2200-2300... had a couple bad breaks from net each game (he got 3 nets, I hit 4 nets and out each game) and each game was to the wire he could not block my spin, EVEN WITH PIPS and dude is a high level player.
    * vs George - a deacdes long higher level player rated now mid 2200s Mediup Pips FH, Grass DTechs BH - I lose game 1, adjust, win game 2, then lose duece (twice I think) had him shittin bricks I pounded his LP returns so damn hard
    8 Vs Jim from same team, ANOTHER unorthodox Medium pips player formerly way higher current ~2100 level. Spun ball heavy, he blocked out a meter plus with MEDIUM PIPS. There was Chinese National EMERGENCY DECLARATION after games 1 and 2 and an arrest warrant issued against Der_Echte for murderous spin. I made mistakes in next few games and fought like crazy coming back from 2-5 at turnaround end on game five to win on my serve at 9-9 zero of the last two points went to plan just had to be real aggressive and WANT IT.

    As much as I troubled the 2000s crowd, I was NOT threatening the 2100-2300 crowd last year, not a chance. This tourney, I got the above oponents into some serious concern that a fat mid 50s dude was gunna overpower them with all-out offense. As much as I could see what was going on in a match last year, no way I was reading as good as this year - I make all kinds of effective adjustments to play the points the right way to win... if only I could receive even ONE SERVE PER GAME better, then almost all these outcomes would be different.

    I lost to some lower rated players on courts where light was wrong (too strong over table bounces at you and poor distributed on 2 courts) and I will have to live with it. Two matches I could not read impact, one could see ball at all. I ALMOST lost to a 1500 player who had a few 2000 level offense and could funnel me into that with 2 serves I am weak against, think Kayla gave her a $100 USD intel report. Had to pull that out at 9-9 vs HER serve. I was calm and ready to adjust and do what it took, she was reluctant to attack and that decided it. In 2 years, she will NEVER be doing that again I think.

    My rating will go down for sure I believe, but that isn't that take-away. What was important is that against opponents 3+ levels better than me, I could see the game, adjust, play the right shot, make quality shots opponents do not handle, excel in mental game, and keep pressure on opponent. I never showed this to this degree against this level of opponent before and that wsa damn encouraging, even if the resultant rating will end up disappointing.

    When I improve serve receive vs those two serves, I will be solid 2100 level for this state I am convinced. The rating level will reflect that when I improve serve receive.

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  9. Der_Echte is offline
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    #29

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    Last edited by Der_Echte; 07-01-2021 at 10:47 PM.
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  10. Kolev is offline
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    #30
    Although it should be a well kept secret, I would like to ask what kind a serve was the one that got you so badly....

  11. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #31
    Any serve in isolation is just a serve and you will get used to it. There is always more than meets the eye in decently high level play. My guess is, it was not a particular serve but the ability to mix serves, disguise, vary, and the game skill/tactics that go with the serves: how Adam is setting himself up with the 3rd ball after his serves.

    Adam likes to show the showmanship stuff. But he can do a lot more than snake shots. And, I am sure, when he is doing snake shots, he is clowning around and having fun. He may win points that way, but it is as much to frustrate the opponent and keep the opponent off balance, keep them from getting in a rhythm. I am sure he can play full matches without that kind of shot and play at basically the same level. But how he plays reflects his personality.

    I played a guy once who, back then, we were fairly evenly matched. Now, he is much better than me. We played this match and I won (back when I could take matches from him-I don't think I can even win games off him anymore unless he is being kind). After he said, you know, I probably would win more often if I did not drop back and lob, but it is a lot more fun for me to play that way.

    I think Adam is not too different. Just at a higher level. You can see how happy he is to play like the clown/trickster. But he is a dynamic player who has a lot of tools in his toolkit. And he may only pull certain tools out when the need arises.

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  12. Lula is offline
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    #32
    Is his playing style lobbing or does he play different in a real game?

  13. Der_Echte is offline
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    #33
    Lula, like Carl mentioned, Adam goofs off and plays any and every way that is fun for him and spectators.

    He DOES prefer to lob, fish, and snake many shots, but he can play more conventionally when he wants to. His mid 2100s to 2200s level skills are solid and legit true at that level, no hoax.

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    #34
    Not everyone here gets an exact idea what 2100-2200 means in reality. That's the american way to frame people and their skills. For many of us it means nothing....cause
    ​​​from what I've seen there are plenty of mid 2100 which look like total rookies compared to Adam who seems to have so much in his pocket plus being so entertaining to look at

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    Last edited by Kolev; 07-04-2021 at 10:01 PM.

  15. Der_Echte is offline
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    #35
    2100-2200 is the 70-90 percentile of Div 1 City in Korea... Many players of this class play Div 3 national level with 50%+ win percentage.

    Like Kolev said, every place has a way to classify players and one classification system may cause zero understanding to people in another country another system.

    Even in the classification system, no system is super efficient at properly classifying players.

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    #36
    I'm looking forward to seeing a Der Echte vs. Adam bout on YouTube.

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  17. Dan is offline
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    #37
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Let's see if this works:

    Can you see the photo now?

    Loving this guys. When two legends meet 🙌

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  18. Der_Echte is offline
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    #38
    2 legends?? Adam is 1.99 Der_Echte .01 yup that's it.

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