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    #1

    Psoas injury - is it common for table tennis players

    Hi, I'm an amateur competitive TT player who has a sitting day job. So physically my routine includes prolonged sitting and then table tennis practice. Recently started to feel a pain that is quite well described as "Psoas syndrome". It's an injury of a muscle that starts in the lower back and then goes inside the pelvis, attaching to the femur. Hip flexor. I'm just wondering if it's a common issue for TT players, and if any of you have encountered this or have successfully dealt with it. Thanks!

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    #2
    Quote Originally Posted by vlad_s
    Hi, I'm an amateur competitive TT player who has a sitting day job. So physically my routine includes prolonged sitting and then table tennis practice. Recently started to feel a pain that is quite well described as "Psoas syndrome". It's an injury of a muscle that starts in the lower back and then goes inside the pelvis, attaching to the femur. Hip flexor. I'm just wondering if it's a common issue for TT players, and if any of you have encountered this or have successfully dealt with it. Thanks!


    thanks for your post. Been suffering from the kind of pain now for months. Had osteo and physio treatment, had the x-rays and my quack is
    sending me to an orthopedic surgeon to get an MRI scan and they are talking about an operation to free a squeezed nerve.
    I will put the idea of possible "Psoas syndrome". to my quack.
    It sure is aggravated always after TT especially through the forehand body rotations


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    #3
    Not sure if I had exactly the same problem, but my lower back pains ended after 1 month rest and 3 or 4 visits to osteopath. I couldn't sit in a normal chair and had to work using kneeling chair for a while . Now if I don't do good warm up before and good stretching after (I feel that stretching after is more important for me) , specifically for that region, pain is getting back. Luckily not for that long and not that strong, but enough to remind me about those procedures.

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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by vlad_s
    Hi, I'm an amateur competitive TT player who has a sitting day job. So physically my routine includes prolonged sitting and then table tennis practice. Recently started to feel a pain that is quite well described as "Psoas syndrome". It's an injury of a muscle that starts in the lower back and then goes inside the pelvis, attaching to the femur. Hip flexor. I'm just wondering if it's a common issue for TT players, and if any of you have encountered this or have successfully dealt with it. Thanks!

    Is it confirmed by a doctor?
    Because the symptoms are very common for many other conditiones.

    I think that all these conditons are more common for players playing very near and on the table with lot of pushes. It makes the lumbar region more tense and for longer periods. More dynamic and diverse playing provide regular muscle contracting-stretching cycles.

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    #5
    I get some pain in the hip region and I think it is from too short iliopsoas(iliacus + psoas muscles) from to much sitting while studying and to much playing tabletennis. The muscle is prime mover for hip flex ion and we do hip flexion a lot in tabletennis since we are sitting down while playing.

    I think it becomes better when stretching the muscle.

    Regarding non specific lower back pain. From what I remember it is the most common injury.

    I think that many players underestimate the strain tabletennis have on the body and with better physical training less injuries will occur. So I would consider more physical training, especially core.

    standing instead of sitting at your work would be good.

    Hope you can visit a good profession that can help you so it get better!

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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by langel

    Is it confirmed by a doctor?
    Because the symptoms are very common for many other conditiones.

    I think that all these conditons are more common for players playing very near and on the table with lot of pushes. It makes the lumbar region more tense and for longer periods. More dynamic and diverse playing provide regular muscle contracting-stretching cycles.

    More dynamic and diverse playing provide regular muscle contracting-stretching cycles.


    it is the same as telling a 70 year old person who goes for gentle walks every day to pick up pole-vault.
    "Because it would streeeetch all his back muscles"""
    My coach advised me to keep my game "tight" because he recognizes that old peoples capability of jumping around are too limited


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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    More dynamic and diverse playing provide regular muscle contracting-stretching cycles.


    it is the same as telling a 70 year old person who goes for gentle walks every day to pick up pole-vault.
    "Because it would streeeetch all his back muscles"""
    My coach advised me to keep my game "tight" because he recognizes that old peoples capability of jumping around are too limited

    Well, for the old people it's obvious, especially for the 70+ ones, I agree.
    Though we must make the difference between "tense" and "tight".

    How old are you?

    And how old is the OP?


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    #8
    I have a friend who has lumbar problems and who is working sitting.
    His best effective therapy is replacing the chair with a big ball for exercises /yoga ball/ every hour - one hour on the chair, one hour on the ball.


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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by langel

    Well, for the old people it's obvious, especially for the 70+ ones, I agree.
    Though we must make the difference between "tense" and "tight".

    How old are you?

    And how old is the OP?


    Of course i am over 70.
    When the coach was suggesting to keep my game tight he was of course not talking muscles but suggested to keep my game
    close to the table because some of us oldies will fall over if we jump after the wide balls.
    For younger and fitter players I think your advise is "spot-on"


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    #10
    Really the only way to possibly know what MIGHT be happening is to get an MRI. Even that doesn't always show everything that might be causing back pain.

    There are a lot of different things that could be causing your symptoms. And even if you know what it is, it may or may not be easy to do much about it with any confidence that it will actually work. There are a few cases where there will be an obvious surgical option and if so you can decide if you want to go through with it. It helped me incredibly about twelve years ago. But each case is unique. It turns out that a substantial portion of back pain is pretty mysterious, it hurts a lot, it is chronic, it limits motion, and yet nothing shows up on the MRI. Which is why people are willing to try all kinds of things that sometimes work and sometimes doesn't, and also, some back pain will go away by itself in time.

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    #11
    Baal;347286Really the only way to possibly know what MIGHT be happening is to get an MRI. Even that doesn't always show everything that might be causing back pain.

    There are a lot of different things that could be causing your symptoms. And even if you know what it is, it may or may not be easy to do much about it with any confidence that it will actually work. There are a few cases where there will be an obvious surgical option and if so you can decide if you want to go through with it. It helped me incredibly about twelve years ago. But each case is unique. It turns out that a substantial portion of back pain is pretty mysterious, it hurts a lot, it is chronic, it limits motion, and yet nothing shows up on the MRI. Which is why people are willing to try all kinds of things that sometimes work and sometimes doesn't, and also, some back pain will go away by itself in time.
    I'm in my late 40s.
    Having listened to my body well enough in the last few days I can confirm that pain is pretty localised to the iliacus and psoas muscles. My current theory is that what affects me the most is bending over when I pick the ball up. I can do that hundreds of times within one session in pretty much the same way, loading the hip flexors.
    I therefore still hope I will be properly diagnosed eventually. Will keep searching

    If you know a good doctor in the London area for this problem, I'll be grateful for a recommendation.

  12. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #12
    Yeah. It is hard to tell what is going on without an actual diagnosis. Also, it is worth understanding that our nervous systems are complex. Where you have pain, and where the problem actually is, they are not always the same.
    -
    If the issue is your iliopsoas, stretching it may or may not be useful. But it would not hurt trying.
    -
    However, the pain you are describing, and where you are describing it, could equally be caused by nerve impingement in the lumbar spin which sometimes can be exacerbated by bending over. For sure, this could cause referred pain right where you are describing.
    -
    And, without the kind of testing Baal referred to (MRI) it would be hard to tell what the cause of the pain is.
    -
    But, if you find something that helps that pain go away, keep doing it (perhaps, something like stretching the hip flexor muscle). BTW: the iliospoas is not the only set of hip flexor muscles. The quadriceps muscles are also primary hip flexor muscles. But they only cross the hip joint whereas, the most superior (highest on the spine) attachments of the psoas part of the iliopsoas crosses all the joints of the lumbar spin, the sacrum, and the hip joint.
    -
    Exercises that cause those muscles to work (leg raises) before stretching them might also be a good idea so that you are strengthening them and then taking a short amount of time to lengthen them.
    -
    Over the internet, it is hard to say what exercises or stretches would be useful for a person, particularly without seeing the person move and use their body. And it is worth knowing that, there is contradictory information on whether stretching muscles is useful. But I can say with certainty, when a lot of people I see try to stretch, they don't know what they are doing and cause more harm than good by how they try to stretch.
    -
    So, be careful. Anything you try on your own that makes what you have going on feel worse, is not what will help it get better.

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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 06-23-2021 at 01:39 AM.
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  13. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #13
    Based on the end of my last post, I decided this was time for a story. I was working with this guy who was a trainer for the NY Yankees for a short time in the early 2000s (maybe 2002 or 2003). I only worked with him a few times. And I am confident, in what he worked on with the baseball players, he knew what he was doing. But many he did not know how to stretch or get muscles to relax or release. He was really strong and he kept on trying to muscle or power the stretches in a way that would only make the muscles he was stretching tighter.

    Now, the thing is, for someone really flexible, what he was doing may have been fine. Because what he was doing would make the muscles tighter. I don't think he was in danger of hurting himself because he was in really good shape. But what he was doing made absolutely no sense for him because he definitely was making the muscles he was pulling on contract while he was pulling on them and the end result would have been to make those muscles shorter and tighter.

    But damn it was hard to get him to learn how to relax, let go, not try to go anywhere and just release into a shape that would let the muscles that were lengthening release into the length instead of tightening against it.

    Person by person, how a person would need to approach any particular "stretch" would really be different based on a lot of things including flexibility and fitness level.

    What am I leading towards with this? Advice in person is hard enough. Advice over the internet......be circumspect.
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by vlad_s
    I'm in my late 40s.
    Having listened to my body well enough in the last few days I can confirm that pain is pretty localised to the iliacus and psoas muscles. My current theory is that what affects me the most is bending over when I pick the ball up. I can do that hundreds of times within one session in pretty much the same way, loading the hip flexors.
    I therefore still hope I will be properly diagnosed eventually. Will keep searching

    If you know a good doctor in the London area for this problem, I'll be grateful for a recommendation.

    You don't need to bend in order to pick the ball up. Rather use your legs and squat, keeping your back straight.

    It's always good to visit a doctor, but some general advices - mind your playing posture. Try to avoid bowing your back and keep it straight. Level down and up using your legs. Open your shoulders. Do some footwork exercises. A good footwork helps a lot for the regular and proper muscle ease-tense cycles. Do some duck walking with straight back and hands behind your head. Always warm up before playing.



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    #15
    That happened to me too when I went to hiking the day after exhausting table tennis training. I remember at that time, I was biking 15km full speed to sports hall to play table tennis.

    I also sit all day at the job. Those stretches, massage ball, etc. nothing worked on me permanently, except time. For me, it took 2-3 weeks to feel normal again.

    Now I try to avoid doing everything in short time, table tennis, bicycle riding, hiking.

    I don't think stretches work on you after injury. You may damage the muscle that is already damaged.

    Now I care continuously practicing. Therefore I am trying to do foam rolling like this Instagram post. It helps me to live the next day like I didn't trained on previous day, plus magnesium intake
    https://www.instagram.com/p/CKZiwP7HhQB/

    But I don't do foam rolling to my lower back. Avoid that exercise unless you really know what you are doing.

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