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  1. UpSideDownCarl is online now
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    #21
    Since I think you are going to get to try H3 soon, when you do, let us know how you like it.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Since I think you are going to get to try H3 soon, when you do, let us know how you like it.

    Since my friend has been using that bat with the H3 for over a year now (Or maybe less), the grip isn't as grippy as the new H3 in the packets of course, but it was still good enough to produce decent amount of spins in my shots. As you said, there isn't much speed but once you get the right technique, the speed is really good. I only got a few good shots that has topspins and speed with power since I was inconsistent and did not have the right technique most of the time when I did the shots, but when I did a good shot, it felt good and made my opponents harder to receive the shot. Overall, I would say the H3 rubber felt decent and did not expect to be that bad.

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  3. UpSideDownCarl is online now
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    #23
    Cool. If you felt it, you have a better idea of what you are getting. With H3, you may like the Offensive S as a blade.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Cool. If you felt it, you have a better idea of what you are getting. With H3, you may like the Offensive S as a blade.
    What about the Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive? Everyone recommends that to pair it with the H3 Rubber.

  5. UpSideDownCarl is online now
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Kai7
    What about the Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive? Everyone recommends that to pair it with the H3 Rubber.
    Me personally, I hate that blade. Very hard and probably faster than you want, in my opinion. It is great for Penhold because of how, with penhold the angle you contact the ball makes it very easy to really brush the ball thinly.

    For Shakehand, I feel like the rebound and the time the ball stays on the blade face is way too short. That blade, I think, would give you a very small margin for error and make it much harder for you to really learn to spin.

    Other people will have different opinions. But my experience with it was: that is a hard, unforgiving blade.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Me personally, I hate that blade. Very hard and probably faster than you want, in my opinion. It is great for Penhold because of how, with penhold the angle you contact the ball makes it very easy to really brush the ball thinly.

    For Shakehand, I feel like the rebound and the time the ball stays on the blade face is way too short. That blade, I think, would give you a very small margin for error and make it much harder for you to really learn to spin.

    Other people will have different opinions. But my experience with it was: that is a hard, unforgiving blade.

    I see, what about the Stiga Clipper?

    Last edited by Kai7; 07-08-2021 at 11:16 AM.

  7. UpSideDownCarl is online now
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Kai7

    I see, what about the Stiga Clipper?

    So, why do you want a blade that is very likely much too fast for you?
    -
    You could get away with it. The Clipper is 7mm thick, 7 ply, so, stiff. It is pretty fast. It feels great. But if you are playing for only a year and coming from the premade racket you are coming from, it would basically be like going from driving lessons where someone in the passenger seat has a brake to make sure you don't hurt yourself, to driving a Lamborghini.
    -
    Offensive S is a good blade. It will probably be too fast for you. Probably you should get the Appelgren Allplay. But, get what you want. It doesn't matter that much.
    -
    Most players at your level get equipment that is too fast for them that requires more skill than they are capable of handling. Go for it. 6-7 years from now you might realize how, if you just got:
    -
    Stiga Allround Evolution with Vega Europe on it, and used that for a few years, you would have gotten better much faster as a result of having equipment that actually suited your needs.
    -
    But it is not the end of the world that you do what most enthusiastic newer players do about equipment and buy something that will be suitable for you in 2-3 years. Buying it now will just mean it will be good for you in 4-5 years. Not a big deal. Sometimes what you want is important too.
    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 07-08-2021 at 11:47 AM.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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  8. UpSideDownCarl is online now
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    #28
    BTW: 7mm thick is pretty darn thick. If you are used to 7mm thick it is not a big deal but you won't get much flex from a blade that thick. And if you are used to a blade 6mm thick or less, you may feel why that has its benefits.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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  9. UpSideDownCarl is online now
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    #29
    One more BTW: It is worth knowing that an Offensive S is like a 5 ply, thinner version of a Clipper that is toned down a little so it is not quite so fast.

    I still think it may be too fast for you. But, it still would be better for your development than a Clipper.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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    #30
    Hard to argue with Carl, but just my 2 cents:

    Get a Clipper/Viscaria and 2 sheets of T05.

    -If you don't, you will always be curious.

    -Only cure for curiosity is knowing.

    -Your skills will improve no matter what you use.

    -Having spent time in semi-serious Chinese clubs, most newcomers start with a Stiga OC/Korbel and move to Clipper/Viscaria after ~3 months. Most who tried to move past Clipper/Viscaria eventually come back to it.

    -Might as well get it and stop thinking about gear.

    -Yes, the combo is expensive, but you'll save on the long run by not being worried about "what else?".

    -Yes this comes from a former EJ.

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  11. Kuba Hajto is online now
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    #31
    Get a Virtuoso Off, it is like Xiom Offensive S, but nicer, better feeling and more premium.

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    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by lasta
    Hard to argue with Carl, but just my 2 cents:

    Get a Clipper/Viscaria and 2 sheets of T05.

    -If you don't, you will always be curious.

    -Only cure for curiosity is knowing.

    -Your skills will improve no matter what you use.

    -Having spent time in semi-serious Chinese clubs, most newcomers start with a Stiga OC/Korbel and move to Clipper/Viscaria after ~3 months. Most who tried to move past Clipper/Viscaria eventually come back to it.

    -Might as well get it and stop thinking about gear.

    -Yes, the combo is expensive, but you'll save on the long run by not being worried about "what else?".

    -Yes this comes from a former EJ.
    Or better yet, find clubmates with Tenergy 05/Viscaria combinations and try a bunch of them and come to the conclusion that you prefer other setups and wonder what the hype is all about. There, saved you a bunch of money.

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    #33


    It’s funny, because that post really reminds me of the thought process I went through when I wanted to choose my first custom bat, except that I wanted long pimples on my backhand. My bat progression went like this:
    1. Blade — Tuttle Allround (A cheap, unknown but slowish 5 ply all wood blade from Custom Table Tennis
    FH Rubber — DHS NEO Hurricane 3 (Red) — 2.15mm
    BH Rubber — DHS Cloud and Fog 3 (Chopping Long pips)

    2. Blade — Joola Aruna Off+ (A very fast OFF+ rated 3 wood, 2 carbon Hinoki-Carbon blade
    Fh Rubber — Nittaku Fastarc G1 (Black) — 2.0mm (A high throw European rubber, with good control)
    Bh Rubber — Joola Rhyzm P (Red) — 2.0mm (A low throw, bouncier European rubber)

    3. Blade — Eastfield Allround (Another obscure, slowish and cheap 5 ply all wood)
    Fh Rubber — Friendship 729 Battle 2 (Black) — 2.1 mm (Another Chinese rubber, slightly faster and bouncier than the Hurricane)
    Bh Rubber — Joola Rhyzm P (Red) — 2.0mm

    1. My experience with the Hurricane on the first all wood bat was great. I could make big swings and good brushing contacts, like the Chinese players and Ma Long and I felt very well in control of the ball, because of the hard sponge absorbing the power from the opponents’ shots and the slow blade. That was very comfortable, but you would obviously not be playing a defensive rubber on the backhand like me.

    2. My experience with the fast carbon blade and the European rubbers was less good. I was used to doing big swings with the Chinese rubber and slow blade and found I could no longer do so with the non-sticky and fast rubbers and ultra fast blade. I tried the Fastarc G1 on the backhand and found it comfortable for backhand top spins and flicks, but decided to find a new bat. I thought that my problem was that the bat was too fast.

    3. My experience with this bat was worse. I find the bouncier Chinese rubber 729 Battle 2 too low throw (I hit the net or overshot a lot) and the backhand European rubber too low throwing as well. I just couldn’t topspin.

    Therefore, based off of my experiences, here is my advice:
    1. Get a slow and affordable, but not dirt cheap, all wood blade. If you have 1 bat and get an expensive carbon blade that is much too fast for you, like the Viscaria, that will not be a nice experience. You will feel like you have no control and will have to avoid the big swing topspin attacks that are so fun to do with Chinese rubbers, because you will just overshoot. You will have bought a bat that you cannot make more controllable and it will have cost you a lot of money.

    2. Choose your blade based off of your forehand rubber. Typically, Chinese players play with a hard, slow Chinese rubber and a slowish blade (for professional standards), allowing them to swing hard and then get a faster backhand rubber (like Tenergy 05) to increase their backhand speed. So get a slowish blade (All to Off- in speed, like the Stiga Offensive Classic) with your Hurricane and gradually upgrade your backhand runners, eventually getting a Tenergy if you want. The advice would usually be to start with a slower topspin backhand rubber like the Nittaku Fastarc G1 or the Xiom Vega Pro. Get an all wood blade, not a Carbon blade.

    3. Get high throw rubbers on both your backhand and forehand (rubbers with a high spin to speed ratio). They are the rubbers to do topspin with. I found rubbers that were more speedy than spinny a nightmare to try and play topspin with. I would advice Hurricane 3 NEO on the forehand and Nittaku Fastarc G1 on the backhand. If you need more advice on high throw runners, there are countless other threads with information.

    4. Get affordable rubbers. If you’re playing a lot at an intermediate level, then you will not get good use out of £60 professional grade rubbers, like Tenergy. If you like them, then you have bought a great product that you can’t sustainably replace (if you can’t buy £120 worth of table tennis equipment every few months) when your rubbers wear out, you will be sad. If you don’t like them, then you have wasted a lot of money for rubbers that are likely too fast for you. Those runners are for professionals who get discounts and sponsorships and are difficult to get the most out of.

    I would buy:
    Blade — Stiga Offensive Classic or Stiga Allround Classic or Butterfly Primorac
    FH Rubber — DHS NEO Hurricane 3 or Provincial (In black color)
    Bh Rubber — Nittaku Fastarc G1

    If your forehand is too slow, get a coach or google how to improve your technique. Hurricane has a hard enough sponge that it should not ever be too slow for you, if you improve your technique. I didn’t find the transition from pre made bat rubbers to Hurricane too difficult.

    if your backhand is too slow, improve your technique. If it is still too slow, get a faster high throw rubber, like the Tibhar Evolution MX-P or Tibhar Aurus Prime. If it is still too slow, look at getting a faster blade.

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    #34
    My first emotion to seeing this kind of post where an OP reveals he so wants the CNT Power Player kinda setup... is to vomit, rinse mouth, then coherenty try to rationally articulate why such a setup is not gunna help a one year player very much...

    ... but when I play tourneys and see 99.whatever percent of my opponents' bat (those who are coached by very elite Chinese Amateur players) are almost entirely a BTY Viscaria or some Ma Long version with H3 juiced on FH and a Tenegy or Digital Diginicky rubber on BH and that is coaches "Orders" and the parents of kids so blindly comply like following the pied piper or the current wave of socialism pressures...

    ... so I can immediately say my first emotion is NOT gunna be some enduring truth and should be tempered.

    That means I should say to OP if you really want to possess and use the CNT Power Ranger gear... by all means go ahead and procure it and like it.

    Carl, Der_Echte, and any other sucker make frequent jokes about creating a mound of that H3 and CNT stuff to attract the Goon Squad and LOLROFL our LULZ Azz right off our pants at Goon Squad antics that so want this stuff.

    Even saying that... for real, here it is. If you want to grow as a player, figure our your play style you want to become and get equipment appropriate for that and go center of mass on that zone of appropriatness and stick with it for a few years with some professional assistance training. If you do not get said training and professional help, then it is very likely the equipment will not make much a difference and you could simply enjoy it without regret.

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    #35
    Like Der_Echte writes. After playing one year, perhaps you have started to figure out the way you like to play this game, or what style fits you the best. So, we had a "private" message conversation about this a while ago, and when you come from a $10 pre-made racket, everything else is a more advanced setup.

    You said that you have a Donic Sensation Line 500 with 1.5mm rubbers and almost no grip at all, and it's very light weight. If you want to try a carbon blade, go with a Palio CAT or DHS PG5, where the Palio CAT has a lower weight (around 70g), and the DHS PG5 (around 88g) also is a bit more controllable ALC blade

    Instead of H3N you could start with 729 Focus III Snipe, that comes in three different hardnesses 42/44/46 and also is quite light weight. This is a linear rubber that works with many styles, and it's cheap.

    https://revspin.net/blade/palio-cat.html
    https://revspin.net/blade/dhs-power-g-pg5.html

    https://revspin.net/rubber/focus-3-snipe.html

    This would make your setup more advanced, but not overkill and it will cost you about $35-$50 depending on what blade you choose. It could perhaps be the right way to go for you, and it could help you improving your skills and after some practice see which way you're heading...

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    #36
    Carl was hinting at the use of boosters with Chinese Tacky rubbers, and how much hassle this can be!!
    Booster’s effect the sponge by expanding them slightly and softening them up some.
    the expanded sponge stretches or tension’s the rubber top sheet slightly.
    So the feel is softer, and speed is increased slightly. Some say spin is better, I would say it’s easier for the player to produce spin!! But the increase isn’t much as far as I’m concerned.

    These characteristics are temporary and fade away.

    Depending on how you boost, and what booster you use the effect can last from 2-3 weeks up to 3 months according to some people.
    The boosting process takes time if done properly maybe 3 to 5 days+
    if you are using boosted rubbers and playing a lot, you will need a second set of rubbers that you put through the boosting process so they are ready to swap. So you need to plan ahead!!
    if you play once a week, then you’ll be ok to use 1 set of rubbers, remove from blade, re-boost and re-glue before your next session, if you play once a week I wouldn’t bother with boosters at all!!!

    HOME boosting of rubbers and use of boosted rubbers in sanctioned tournaments is classed as ‘Illegal’ by the ITTF, they are going to clamp down on the use of ‘factory applied boosters’ as well.
    Their testing protocols are looking like they are going to get tougher, making it easier for officials to expose treated set ups.
    At Local and lower level tournaments it appears a lot of people don’t really care if a person is using boosted rubbers!!

    There may be some Health Risks involved as well, I read that there are chemicals from the petrochemical industry in some boosters, Cancer related compounds etc so caution is advised!!

    I experimented with boosting rubbers, now I really can’t be bothered with it !! When you weigh it up it’s time consuming, COULD / MAY be harmful to you if you over expose yourself !! (Wear masks and gloves as a precaution). Effects can vary, Does IT make you play better - NO!! But it may help YOU control the equipment easier.

    There are rubbers out there now that are factory pre boosted, this is not only confined to Chinese Tacky rubbers, there are plenty of bouncy grippy rubbers that have been ‘tweaked’ and performance sort of drops off over a couple of months etc
    ‘Hybrid’ characteristic type rubbers- these have hard but more bouncy sponges, (some have) thinner tacky top sheets, this type of rubber tries to get the best characteristics from each type of rubber, ie Tacky Chinese say H3 and grippy bouncy bouncy rubber like T05 etc

    All in all, it’s not for me!! Others swear that boosting is the way to go!! You can make your own mind up!!!

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    #37
    Agree with IB66 with tuners, way too much a hassel for me... even if the process is pretty easy... it is not as convenient as gluing, drying, slapping it all on.

    Ironic he mentions hybrid rubbers as I recently made Tibhar K1 Hybrid Plus my official BH rubber... and I can say that rubber could serve as a FH rubber if needed. A monster on counters.

    At this stae of my life, I would only really want to use a tuner oil for the sole purose of softening the sponge a bit if I like topsheet but sponge is too hard... even so, just about every maker provides at least 3 sponge hardness for every rubber they market, so there is that.

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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte
    Agree with IB66 with tuners, way too much a hassel for me... even if the process is pretty easy... it is not as convenient as gluing, drying, slapping it all on.

    Ironic he mentions hybrid rubbers as I recently made Tibhar K1 Hybrid Plus my official BH rubber... and I can say that rubber could serve as a FH rubber if needed. A monster on counters.

    At this stae of my life, I would only really want to use a tuner oil for the sole purose of softening the sponge a bit if I like topsheet but sponge is too hard... even so, just about every maker provides at least 3 sponge hardness for every rubber they market, so there is that.
    Hi Der,

    I’ve tried quite a few ‘Hybrids’ but never got round to trying the Tibhar ones!! Maybe I’ll have to get a sheet or 2!!!!

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    #39


    What Carl said is true. At my club we have a USATT 2650 player (ranked 18 in the US) that has played on the CNT and is contact with DHS suppliers that can get him national rubbers, and is friends with CNT members (Ma Long and the other big names) . When I asked him about provincial and national rubbers he said that for most people the provincial and national are overkill, and there is hardly a difference. It's kind of like a diminishing return kind of thing. The only difference of provincial and national rubbers are that they have better qc, but the topsheet is essentially the same. The blue sponge takes in booster better since, it's more porous, otherwise all of it is the same. I liked the Kokutaku 007 better than my hurricane 3 neo, it has a blue sponge, and is porous.

    That being said, if you want to feed your inner EJ and try out the provinicial/national, go ahead. But for most people, the commercial is just fine.

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    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by IB66
    Hi Der,

    I’ve tried quite a few ‘Hybrids’ but never got round to trying the Tibhar ones!! Maybe I’ll have to get a sheet or 2!!!
    TTD Memebr, and likely, the world's largest EJ, gave Sergey Tsos a sheet to try, I tried it and immediately liked how I could counter topspin... I made a huge Table Tennis 11 order (Nexy Korea did not carry plus version) and my unit price per rubber ended up in low 30 USD per sheet. Not bad.

    This is a FIRM sponge. Usually, I am not a firm sponge kind of guy (even though I can make do on BH) but this one worked for me.
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