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    #1

    Need Help Choosing First Custom Racket

    I have been playing table tennis for over a year now and finally, I am going to get my first custom bat. But I want to make sure that it is worth the value and that I don't want to regret for what I am buying. I am new to making custom bats so I am not sure which rubber and blade is good. I am a player that likes to play offensively, mainly speed with power and top spin (Favourite player: Ma Long). I would say that I am sitting in the middle of intermediate level (Long way to go to advanced level).
    Blade: Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro Black Edition (Flared)
    Forehand Rubber: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo Provincial 39’ (2.1mm)
    Backhand Rubber: Yasaka Rakza 7 (2.0mm)

    Feel free to give me suggestions of a custom bat that suits my style of play but I want to know if my custom bat above is worth the value, good durability and also suits the style of my play.


    Last edited by Kai7; 07-05-2021 at 10:46 AM. Reason: Decided that this would be a new option for me.

  2. WingTT is offline
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    #2
    In my experience, the TSPW is fastest 5 ply all wood I've played and it is too fast for how flexible it is leading to a loss of control at the very high end speed. I would go with a slower blade or a stiffer blade like the Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro blue handle(not the Black, which is faster and stiffer than the blue). The trend also is towards harder sponges especially for the forehand due to the plastic ball. I would go with something like the Nittaku Fastarc G1 or other ESN equivalents. The Rozena is fine but there are better performing rubbers for the price.
    Last edited by WingTT; 07-04-2021 at 12:45 AM.

  3. Kai7 is offline
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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by WingTT
    In my experience, the TSPW is fastest 5 ply all wood I've played and it is too fast for how flexible it is leading to a loss of control at the very high end speed. I would go with a slower blade or a stiffer blade like the Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro blue handle(not the Black, which is faster and stiffer than the blue). The trend also is towards harder sponges especially for the forehand due to the plastic ball. I would go with something like the Nittaku Fastarc G1 or other ESN equivalents. The Rozena is fine but there are better performing rubbers for the price.

    Thanks for the reply, but about the backhand rubber, what other better performing rubbers that has the same price as the Rozena? Can I have some rubber examples for it?


  4. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    #4
    Kai7, you made 2 threads, 6 hours apart with the same content. I have merged them. In the future, if you have a thread on a subject, post in that thread. You should not make multiple threads on the same exact subject.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  5. Kai7 is offline
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    #5

    I see, sorry it's my first time using and not really used to the system. Thanks!


  6. WingTT is offline
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kai7

    Thanks for the reply, but about the backhand rubber, what other better performing rubbers that has the same price as the Rozena? Can I have some rubber examples for it?


    The aforementioned Nittaku Fastarc G-1 is 4 for the price of 3 at tabletennis11.


  7. MOG is offline
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    #7
    I think you should stick to TSPW it is a fantastic blade.

  8. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MOG
    I think you should stick to TSPW it is a fantastic blade.
    Not sure he has the TSPW. If he is preparing to buy his first "custom" racket, then, I would assume he has been playing with prebuilt to date.

    Kai, do you have any footage of you playing. Even though people seem to feel very comfortable about what to get without seeing someone play, there really is no way of having a valid opinion about what someone should use without seeing them play.

    Or, do you play at a club and have access to a coach who could watch you and recommend something that would be good for you at your level?

    If you play at a club, trying rackets from your fellow club members would also help you decide what you want.

    The Following User Likes UpSideDownCarl's Post:

    MOG

    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  9. passifid is offline
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    #9
    Fastarc G1 is a good forehand rubber but rozena is a reliable rubber for backhand. I personally would just go with that for now it lets you develop into anything really it's a very middle of the road rubber. Better value would be maybe Vega intro or Europe. but I'm not a big fan of xiom rubbers personally.

  10. Kuba Hajto is offline
    says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
     
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    #10
    Tibhar Curious / Donic Dyjas + 2*x where x is:
    • Vega Japan - middle of the road, grippy does the job
    • Xiom Omega 5 tour / el pro 48 / g1 - faster but manageable
    • Whatever is cheap and somewhat premium
    • Vega X - stonks for most of our needs

    Anything you get, join a club and practice. I have an opinion that newer cheaper rubber will be better than other higher end. There is very little bad rubbers.

    Those 2 blades are powerful enough and easy enough to handle. I would maybe go for Vega X / G1 forehand and something with softer top sheet on backhand.
    Last edited by Kuba Hajto; 07-04-2021 at 02:04 PM.

  11. Kai7 is offline
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Not sure he has the TSPW. If he is preparing to buy his first "custom" racket, then, I would assume he has been playing with prebuilt to date.

    Kai, do you have any footage of you playing. Even though people seem to feel very comfortable about what to get without seeing someone play, there really is no way of having a valid opinion about what someone should use without seeing them play.

    Or, do you play at a club and have access to a coach who could watch you and recommend something that would be good for you at your level?

    If you play at a club, trying rackets from your fellow club members would also help you decide what you want.

    Unfortunately, I do not have any footage of me playing. But I do have a few friends that has rackets different than mine but one of them is a chopper, the other one is penhold while I am just offensive and aggressive in general. The best description I can give you is that I play close-mid range. My main trait is that I have high reactions, I also mainly play it with speed and power + topspin.


  12. Gozo is offline
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kai7
    I have been playing table tennis for over a year now and finally, I am going to get my first custom bat. But I want to make sure that it is worth the value and that I don't want to regret for what I am buying. I am new to making custom bats so I am not sure which rubber and blade is good. I am a player that likes to play offensively, mainly speed with power and top spin (Favourite player: Ma Long). I would say that I am sitting in the middle of intermediate level (Long way to go to advanced level).
    Blade: Tibhar Stratus Power Wood
    Forehand Rubber: Yasaka Mark V HPS Soft (2.0mm Red)
    Backhand Rubber: Butterfly Rozena (2.1mm Black)

    Feel free to give me suggestions of a custom bat that suits my style of play but I want to know if my custom bat above is worth the value, good durability and also suits the style of my play.
    If you want to emulate Ma Long style:
    1) DHS Power G7
    2) DHS Hurricane Hao 3
    3) Nittaku Acoustic all wood
    3) and finally you reach the final frontier - DHS Long 5x which is what ML is currently using.

    The prior three are what ML had used before in his TT pro career before coming to DHSL5x so I have heard. TSPW is not meant to support ML's play style.

    However, I want to put in a few good word for TSPW. It is a very nice to play all round style ( or perhaps Off- ). It will support club player very nicely especially if you use those medium fast rubber i.e, not those super fast hard tensor rubber. It has excellent control and can generate good spin and quite forgiving too. It can be a technical blade to develop your basic skill. Why do I say this? Because I have played with it before.

    Oh, I want to add: skip the Yasaka Mark V as it is a mushy rubber and too soft for modern larger diameter plastic ball. I find it lack power, at best it is only good for active blocking with good control. Unfortunately Mark V and is not offensive enough. This is speaking from my personal experience.

    I have no experience with BTY Rozena.

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  13. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    #13
    Anyone out there want to talk about the challenges of switching from a softer Euro/Japanese type of sponge/rubber combo where the topsheet is grippy not tacky and the sponge is springy, not energy absorbing, to a Chinese tacky type rubber where the topsheet is tacky/sticky and the sponge is dense and energy absorbing?

    Anyone want to talk about whether they boost when using H3 or just use it without adding boosters? And what the relative benefits/downsides to boosting or not boosting would be with a rubber like H3.

    The Following User Likes UpSideDownCarl's Post:

    MOG

    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  14. Kuba Hajto is offline
    says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
     
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    Kuba Hajto is offline
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Anyone out there want to talk about the challenges of switching from a softer Euro/Japanese type of sponge/rubber combo where the topsheet is grippy not tacky and the sponge is springy, not energy absorbing, to a Chinese tacky type rubber where the topsheet is tacky/sticky and the sponge is dense and energy absorbing?

    Anyone want to talk about whether they boost when using H3 or just use it without adding boosters? And what the relative benefits/downsides to boosting or not boosting would be with a rubber like H3.

    Nice bait.


  15. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto

    Nice bait.

    Well, Kai is using a premade racket with soft euro style rubbers on it, and has never tried Chinese rubbers. So I am trying to get people to give him more information because he does not seem to be able to try what he is getting ready to buy. Hearing stuff just from me is one thing. But, if he hears different opinions on the equipment, it could be more helpful to him.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  16. mocker88 is offline
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    #16

    I can't find your premade racket specifications anywhere. But it could be a little overkill to go with this setup after playing about a year. What exactly do you play with now?


  17. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #17
    If he wants to show you what he is using, I will leave that to him. Based on some information we talked about in PMs, this is what I recommended for him:

    One of these blades:

    1) Butterfly Primorac Off-
    2) Donic Appelgren Allplay
    3) Stiga Allround Evolution
    4) Xiom Offensive S
    5) Yasaka Sweden Extra

    Rubbers:

    Xiom Vega Europe on both sides or Vega Pro on FH and Vega Europe on BH
    or
    Tibhar Aurus Soft for both sides or Tibhar Aurus for FH and Aurus Soft for BH

    But I think, he may benefit from more information from different people about subjects like:

    - How you need different technique for a rubber like H3 than you do for a Euro style rubber.
    - The process of boosting and why or whether it is necessary for a rubber like H3.
    - Differences between Commercial, Provincial and National H3 and whether he will be able to tell the difference.
    - How easy/hard it has been for different players who switched from Euro catapult rubbers to a rubber like H3.

    My personal opinion is, if you start from the beginning with H3, you will be fine. If you start with Euro rubbers and try to switch to H3 before you are highly skilled at spin contact (tangential contact/ brush contact) and don't have the precision on this kind of contact or the skilled footwork to be in good position so you can take a good fundamental stroke, H3 can be a hard transition. Also, some people like the process of boosting. Others don't. So, Kai having some extra information might really be useful.

    I know different people have different opinions. I also know, I can use Hard Chinese Tacky rubber without a problem. I don't need any transition time. But that is because of how I contact and years ago, that would not have been the case. I know, when I stopped using H3, my two reasons were, I started hating the fact that I needed to boost every few weeks to a month (to me that is just a hassle). And, because of how I contacted the ball at the time (not sure this would still be the case but it might), I was wearing a dead patch in the topsheet where I contacted the ball within 3 weeks of putting a new sheet on. The spot where I contacted would feel like anti-spin while the rest of the sheet was still tacky. But the rest of the surface area did not matter because where I contacted was not acting like tacky offensive rubber anymore. It was functioning as if it was anti-spin. This happened to me with Commercial, Provincial and National versions.

    And, for me, when I switched back from H3 to Euro/Japanese catapult sponge type rubbers, my level jumped pretty quickly because, in some ways, they are easier to use.

    Where does H3 shine? Short game for sure. Where else? If you have high level technique, precise brush contact, and can get into position for each shot with good footwork and use your body, behind your shot on almost every shot, H3 can be amazing. If you tend to hit flat a certain percentage of the time, H3 may not be for you.

    And most people who start out with Euro catapult sponge with grippy (non-tacky) rubbers, it is likely a person playing for about a year, with no access to coach or club, will be making direct impact and not making spin contact.

    But, other people's perspectives, especially people who started with Euro type rubbers and switched to Chinese tacky rubbers, would likely be helpful for Kai.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  18. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    #18
    With all of what I posted above, it should be noted, I am basing that information on what Kai uses. I have not seen footage of him playing. So, I could be wrong. But it is much more likely that someone playing a short time with no access to a club or coaches would be making direct impact rather than the precision needed for making brush contact where the blade face is pointing directly down, you are contacting almost the very top of the ball, you are getting the topsheet of the rubber to grab the ball for forward momentum and spin. And you are touching the tiniest fraction of the edge of the ball: 0.2mm to 1mm of the edge of the ball rather than hitting the back of the ball.

    The precision to grab the edge of the ball, dig into the edge of the ball so the ball sinks part way into the rubber and sponge, so that the topsheet grabs and the sponge compresses part way but the ball never bangs into the wood of the blade, it can take a while to develop that.

    And, if you have not developed that yet, but want to play with H3, you have to be prepared for quite a while of failure before you can do that consistently and with precision. In a sense, that would be worthwhile. When you can do that every time, your level will jump considerably. But until then, you will be using an unforgiving rubber. And once you can do it, then H3 is pretty darn amazing at spinning the ball with good speed and power.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  19. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    #19
    BTW: Wang Chen, (who was on the CNT and moved to USA in 2000 and then played on the 2008 US Olympic Team) once told me: for a player under USATT 2500 rating, probably they can't really tell the difference between National and Commercial so should probably save the extra money.

    2500 USATT rating is a very high rated US player. 2500 would possibly put a player in the top 25 players in UK, if not, top 50. 2700 would be someone who could get to the top 300 in the world.

    So, basically, she was saying, if you are not close to the level of a professional player, the differences should not be anything important.

    It may be too simplistic. I could feel the differences. The real question is, could I really utilize the differences in a way that makes a difference to my level of play. And the answer is, right now, at my current level, probably not.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  20. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    #20
    I guess, more: here is a video that has exercises that are worth trying to practice to develop spin contact and control of your blade face:
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

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