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  1. Ma Long > Xu Xin is offline
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    #1

    Speaking German at German Clubs

    Hi everyone, fairly off-topic question, but if there are any German players or players that have trained in Germany here, how much German language is needed to get by at a club? I want to teach myself a foreign language, and I also plan on going to Germany in a few years where I'll be training at local clubs. I know it sounds silly to learn a language for table tennis, but it would help me decide which language I want to learn if I know it will help me in Germany. I also know most Germans know enough English to easily communicate with me, but I'm still not sure if it would be something they would do in a club environment.

    What language is predominantly at German clubs, German or English?

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    #2
    Hey MLXX,

    I learned German as an adault and can tell you that you can get functional enough VERY QUICKLY if you apply yoursself and work with enough effective approach..

    I did 6 months of back to back 6 week condenced University of Maryland semesters (means I did 4 of those)... that got me introduced to the basic structure of the grammar and some vocab... which is enough to carry yourself the rest of the way if you try. This was on a military base night school. You will likely NOT be doing that.

    You can take night classess at what is called Volkshochschule (A kind of school for adults covering many kinds of real cool topics (even Italian cooking)... now these are immersion right from the beginning, so you should supplement early to keep even if needed... but I can tell you I see all kind of my foreign friends from there who applied themselves and worked hard... after 6 months, they could function quite well.

    My belief about Germans towards foreigners (a type of foreigner) is they hate it when the foreigner demands everything... especially demanding communication be done in English, even though the person has an abiloity to work and learn, but did not (assumed to be because they do not want to)... I think Germans do not resepct that at all and I think i pisses them off. I would agree with that. If you are in another land for a long enough time and want to function there, then you need to do the work and effort. Many will not attempt as they do not want to fail... and you will fail a lot early on, but you fight through it.

    I believe German respect those why are trying to work towards learning the language and culture and show true effort... to these kind, I think Germans give extra leeway even if the foreigner is not doing very well early on.

    I would advise you make friends BEFORE you get to the area you intend. BEFORE. Make known what you want to do. Ask what night school operates when. Get with whatever club you like and let everyone there know what you are trying to do. I think you will be surprised at the support you will get.

    Personally, I think doing this kind of thing is a real blast. People in the world, the average citizen do NOT usually have an opportunity to go to another country and operate there... so if you can go there, learn language/culture and fit in, it is very enjoyable in many ways.

    You asked for real Germans to reply, and you should hear what they say as they are there and they are the real Germans. I provided my input as I did what you are trying to do in a different way way back in the day.

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    #3
    As for MY experience going to a German TT club as a foreigner...

    I bought a Volvo and got it delivered at the factory in Sweden in the early 2010s and drove down to a city pretty close to where TTD Member SugaD lives.

    I looked at what clubs did what at what hours and found a random place that had open training/play and saw it was at a huge city gym I knew and was comfortable getting to... so I went... I think they advertized open training for men for a 2 hour period at 8 PM.

    I went there, changed into uniform, and went to the court as a "Gastspieler"... They had a row of 10 tables setup. I just went it and had a hit with whoever was there... then they play match. After this, many asked for a match... sometimes I asked someone for a match.

    This is a full 10 years after I left Germany and never really spoke any German... no problem, I didn't lose much if any. I fit in right away had zero problem communicating. many of the members. We all enjoyed each other and we stayed there until the janitor kicked us out at 11 PM.

    MLXX, I think that even if you have the German speaking level of one month nightschool, but you show you are trying, I think you will have very few problems.

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  4. Ma Long > Xu Xin is offline
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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte
    Hey MLXX,

    I learned German as an adault and can tell you that you can get functional enough VERY QUICKLY if you apply yoursself and work with enough effective approach..

    I did 6 months of back to back 6 week condenced University of Maryland semesters (means I did 4 of those)... that got me introduced to the basic structure of the grammar and some vocab... which is enough to carry yourself the rest of the way if you try. This was on a military base night school. You will likely NOT be doing that.

    You can take night classess at what is called Volkshochschule (A kind of school for adults covering many kinds of real cool topics (even Italian cooking)... now these are immersion right from the beginning, so you should supplement early to keep even if needed... but I can tell you I see all kind of my foreign friends from there who applied themselves and worked hard... after 6 months, they could function quite well.

    My belief about Germans towards foreigners (a type of foreigner) is they hate it when the foreigner demands everything... especially demanding communication be done in English, even though the person has an abiloity to work and learn, but did not (assumed to be because they do not want to)... I think Germans do not resepct that at all and I think i pisses them off. I would agree with that. If you are in another land for a long enough time and want to function there, then you need to do the work and effort. Many will not attempt as they do not want to fail... and you will fail a lot early on, but you fight through it.

    I believe German respect those why are trying to work towards learning the language and culture and show true effort... to these kind, I think Germans give extra leeway even if the foreigner is not doing very well early on.

    I would advise you make friends BEFORE you get to the area you intend. BEFORE. Make known what you want to do. Ask what night school operates when. Get with whatever club you like and let everyone there know what you are trying to do. I think you will be surprised at the support you will get.

    Personally, I think doing this kind of thing is a real blast. People in the world, the average citizen do NOT usually have an opportunity to go to another country and operate there... so if you can go there, learn language/culture and fit in, it is very enjoyable in many ways.

    You asked for real Germans to reply, and you should hear what they say as they are there and they are the real Germans. I provided my input as I did what you are trying to do in a different way way back in the day.

    Cheers Echte, extremely useful comments you said, I'll take them into account. It seems like German isn't necessarily required for communication but it's considered rude to not put in much effort to the language at all. I'll definately look into those night classes while I'm there aswell.


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    #5
    I think you better learn some German.

    Some Germans refuse to communicate in English in Germany, even if they speak good English.
    These same Germans will speak with you in English in Australia.
    Many of the older Germans don't speak English at all.

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    #6
    Interesting to read how Germans are perceived as a German. 😁 My experience is that most Germans are very willing to speak English if they have the education. But maybe I am a bit biased because I'm an English teacher. 😉 Anyhow, my guess is that you won't have any problems communicating in a club and I also don't think that you have to learn German before you join one. If you want to learn the language properly I wouldn't advice you to go to a "Volkshochschule" because the quality of German classes there can be very poor. Try to find a proper language school (will be more expensive though). I would also try to find a smaller club where everyone plays against each other. This will help you to get to know people quicker.

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    #7
    You can pay an annual subscription and play in Borussia Dusseldorf, where not only English, but many other languages are acceptable.
    But I heard that its not like that in Borussia Dortmund TT club.
    And there are some clubs, where Turkish is more spoken than German.
    In Munich they will take your German, but for you it may be hard to understand a Minga.

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    #8
    I don't think that there will be any problems with speaking English. Just try to get some basics like greeting, what your name is and that should open the door for 99% of people - at least with everybody I know younger than 40.

    We germans are a little shy to speak English, because we always think we're doing mistakes that can be made fun of 😉

    in my opinion as a German, its best to search for bigger clubs in your area. Email them that you want to train with them and it's done. Even as a German in Germany I got asked some strange questions, why I want to train in a different club 🤣

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Short_Pimple
    I don't think that there will be any problems with speaking English. Just try to get some basics like greeting, what your name is and that should open the door for 99% of people - at least with everybody I know younger than 40.
    🤣

    In Germany the population under 40 is 35.8%.
    And 1/4 of them would not dear to speak English because of bad knowledge.
    And it may sound strange, but some of the lesser educated in the southern areas, speak better English than many in the richest and most populated parts of Germany.


  10. Baal is offline
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    #10
    I think you should just learn German for the sake of learning German. And if it helps you playing TT even better!!!

    As a general rule, if you're going to live someplace for any length of time, it seems like a reasonable thing to learn the language as best as you can. Nothing works as well as total immersion, but for that to work you need at least some background before you get there.These days, I pretty much only watch YouTube videos in French, and all the novels that I read are in French as well. This is in preparation for my retirement, which I hope to spend in the south of France somewhere. I can speak well enough to function in almost any situation, and my pronunciation is actually okay, but I still make WAY too many grammatical mistakes, and my writing is bloody awful. Also a lot of common slang and everyday fast speech tends to mess me up. That's the kind of thing that you improve really quickly when you live somewhere. I've got a few years to go so by the time I move thereI'm hoping to have made vast amounts of progress.
    Last edited by Baal; 07-18-2021 at 09:40 PM.

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    #11
    It is not that hard to learn how to count in German plus learn some words that would be used when playing TT.
    There are German TT forums where you can learn German. Use Google translate if you have difficulty.
    Google translate will also pronounce the words so you can hear them.
    The only problem with that is that sometimes the German isn't very good. Too much slang or idioms.




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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma Long > Xu Xin;
    What language is predominantly at German clubs, German or English?
    To be honest I don’t really geht the question… for sure, the predominant language in Germany is German….

    anyway, you will for sure find people who can and will talk with you in english, as long as they are able to.
    Opposing to some opinions posted, I don’t think German will refuse to talk english with you. Just as an example of my company: we had an Australian expat for 3 years in our department and in all meetings where she took part, everybody spoke english, although she was the only one who did not speak German (sometimes in big kickoffs with 60 people…)

    anyway, as in every country in the world, people will like it a lot if you try to speak their foreign language, especially if you will stay there for some time. In the example of my Australian colleague I mentioned, the other colleagues were not really amused, that she lived in Germany for 3 years and did not even try to learn the language… but I guess this will be the same in the whole world. Just imagine you would live in the US for such a long time without speaking and trying to learn english…

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  13. Der_Echte is offline
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    #13

    In the example of my Australian colleague I mentioned, the other colleagues were not really amused, that she lived in Germany for 3 years and did not even try to learn the language…

    This is the very attitude many foreigners have in other lands... live there, but NOT EVEN TRY to learn basic things to take care of themselves. That usually does not set well with the native population.

    There are a number of Americans oversees who one-up this and DEMAND things be done their way. That is a major escalation that will get the American nowhere fast. That is "Burning Bridges" stuff. These are the crowd that no only NEVER tries, but demands people cater to them - a real asshole attitude.

    In my first stay, I was just like the Australian lady, my first two years, I took zero German classes. (I was burned out from learning Korean) My wife tried to get discounts in the market (very tough to do anyway) and got nowhere... so she neagged me endlessly to learn German (you see SHE didn't try...)... I guess two years of lesser stress was enough vacation and I went to night school. 6 months later, I could function well.

    Coincicentially, wife and I afterwards visited a German family we had not seen in a while... the guy leading that house was all like "When the F did YOU learn German ??" as earlier in the year I was in the zero crowd... I told him 6 months ago.

    It can be that simple and someone could learn a lot less and still get a good response.

    I don't think that there will be any problems with speaking English. Just try to get some basics like greeting, what your name is and that should open the door for 99% of people - at least with everybody I know younger than 40.

    I would say this is barebone minimum that could be learned EASILY in a week and would add that it would be good to do at least that and be on track or have a positive trendline to learn more... I would opine that even the O40 crowd would respect true and sincere effort.
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    #14

    This is in preparation for my retirement, which I hope to spend in the south of France somewhere. I can speak well enough to function in almost any situation, and my pronunciation is actually okay, but I still make WAY too many grammatical mistakes, and my writing is bloody awful. Also a lot of common slang and everyday fast speech tends to mess me up. That's the kind of thing that you improve really quickly when you live somewhere.

    I think that is a very good attitude. MY wife wants me to become a multi-millionaire and have some residence in that region at least part time... If I actually manage to financially be able to do that on day, I am going back to hit the books and hit the practice circuit big time.

    My personal experince with French people in France is that those in the COUNTRYSIDE have an entirely different way to operate (Family important, they slow down, they see each other, relationships are more personal based than professional association, they know how to enjoy and be happy without trampling on anyone) I could get along with that crowd real easy and I do not believe it would take me very long to improve my French level to make it better.

    Baal's comments that he would need to be around the French in that area to pick up and improve how they actually talk is important, you do not learn that stuff from a dictionary. I was geat with Korean way back when I went to Korea, but after a few years of hanging out with the guys in TT centers and all the after missions, I turned into a certified Ajoeshi.
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    #15
    I haven't been in Germany for many years but I took enough German in high school to get around. I found German to be handy when in the Czech Republic since most didn't speak English but many spoke German because they had to communicate with the East Germans. German is also handy for reading technical specifications. Speaking or learning German for me is more a matter of brushing up since I know the grammar.

    I remember going to a trade show where I had to get a hotel room hours away from the show site in Dusseldorf. The Dusseldorf Mese. Each day I would ask for a round trip ticket in German from the person selling tickets. On the third day the person said in English that my German pronunciation was getting better. I had to take cabs and order food at local restaurants and do other things while in Germany. I could get by easily except for watch German TV. They talked to fast and used too many idioms and slang for me to follow.
    I was once escorted to an old German castle. I was asked to read and translate the plaque that told of historical info. I did so. It wasn't that hard.

    The same goes for when I visited Italy on business. I preferred the local Italian restaurants over the hotel restaurants.. Since we see so much Italiian food in the US it is easy to order in Italy. Getting a liter of beer is easy. BTW, I was in an Italian restaurant when Italy was playing France for the World Cup. Italy lost.

    However, now I am a moderator on a Chinese website. I must be the only foreigner now that is a moderator on a Chinese website nowdays. I have also played TT in China. I can score and ask for my ball and point to your ball and do the basics. It isn't that hard. For my moderator duties I really on Google translate. I post in Chinese and English. This is tolerated because I am internationally known and an expert in my field. . BTW, the Chinese butcher my last name which is German so I just go by my initials PEN. Using 2 or 3 characters for your name fits in with the Chinese since their names are two or three letter long..

    In short, It is easy to learn a few basics. In Italy and China I knew a few basics. In Germany/Czech republic, I knew a lot more because I had two years of German. Hoover, I approach all languages the same way. Know I, me, he, she, we, you (all) and they for the nominative, subjective and dative forms. Learn the possessive cases. After that it is a matter of vocabulary.

    BTW, Der Echte is German. It means the real.



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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma Long > Xu Xin
    What language is predominantly at German clubs, German or English?
    Bairisch, Fränkisch, Schwäbisch, Ruhrpott(isch), Hamburgisch, Kölsch (not the so called "beer"), Sächsisch, Hessisch, Berlinerisch and some more dialects... But most understand and speak Standard German
    How well do we speak English? Sometimes better than Oettinger scnr

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    #17
    Years ago (around 2005) I was in Germany on business visiting a colleague in Gottingen. While we were talking in his office, he got a phone call from someone in Munich, and after a couple of minutes of frustration he hung up and swore. He told me that whoever he was talking to insisted on speaking in Bairisch and he couldn't understand what they were saying. It was weird that whoever it was wasn't speaking standard German (not that I would have been ever to recognized the difference if I heard it).

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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Baal
    Years ago (around 2005) I was in Germany on business visiting a colleague in Gottingen. While we were talking in his office, he got a phone call from someone in Munich, and after a couple of minutes of frustration he hung up and swore. He told me that whoever he was talking to insisted on speaking in Bairisch and he couldn't understand what they were saying. It was weird that whoever it was wasn't speaking standard German (not that I would have been ever to recognized the difference if I heard it).

    As I said

    "In Munich they will take your German, but for you it may be hard to understand a Minga."


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    #19
    Ah yes, the Bayern accent that the northerners call so kommisch... interestingly, I learned my German in a region of Bayern (Franken).

    There is another dynamic... in gerneral, people in the north, if you do not know them personally go about their business and want to be left alone. You try to interact with them out of turn and you might piss them off a little. So... over time, tose in the north got a reputation... and the capital of one of the north regions north of Bayern is the state of Hessen... which by the way has the WONDERFUL cities of Frankfurt and Wiessbaden (Which I call a home city)...

    So to put it short, if you say you are from the north, you are supposed to act all cold to those you do not know... and if you are actually nice to people, then as a joke they will say you are NOT a Hesse (a person form state of Hessen).

    I think about every country on planet earth has this kind of stuff going on to a small or large degree.

    In USA, if you have someone from the state of Kentucky speaking to you after they drank 1 or 2 bottles of Jack Daniels.... the accent is so bad you would never understand... but what the heck, after that much alcohol, NO ONE should sound coherent.

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    #20
    I grew up at the Swiss border (on German soil but close to Zurich/CH) and my first language was the local dialect (Hoch-Alemannisch, close to Swiss German/Schweizerdeutsch). I only learned standard German (Hochdeutsch) in elementary school, and English, French, and Latin in high school. These days due to TV and YouTube most kids speak closer to standard German. But not everyone speaks English or has been to an English-speaking country, and to expect someone to speak English in Germany is asking for too much for the average German.
    If you speak to someone in German with a US accent, they will respond in their rendition of standard German (or in English if they speak English comfortably).
    So if someone doesn't respond in English it may not be because they don't want to, it may be because they are not fluent in English, especially in smaller villages (although the internet has helped there too).
    So I strongly recommend to learn German if you want to function in Germany. Start at the Goethe-Institut web site.
    To some extent this also works in the German-speaking part of Switzerland (the north part) - they will respond in standard German but with an accent which takes getting used to. I don't think you'll understand much if you learned standard German (Hochdeutsch) and they speak in Swiss German (Schweizerdeutsch) as it is very different from standard German.

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