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  1. Haymi Shalom is offline
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    #1

    Picking blade and rubbers after using same blade for 20 years

    Hi all,

    I used to play table tennis for a few years when i was little (20 years ago), and i got back to it in the last year.
    I am currently using my old blade (Kong Linghui Euro), FH Acuda S2, BH Acuda S3.


    I understand that blades changed significantly and I want to get a new one.
    I've been reading so many reviews about so many blades I really have no idea at this point

    Level wise I'm a local league player, with solid technique for all shots but not too quick or too many tactics.
    With my current setup i feel like i have a lot of control (i find it relatively easy to loop backspin on both sides), but lacking speed (hard to "kill" a point).
    In my style of play I always try to attack first, sometimes with high loopy spins and sometimes lower arc. I don't like to get into counter punches and tend to go away from the table for defense if counter punching for more than 2-3 shots).
    Also if I'm being attacked first, I will tend to play more blocking style rather than counter looping (that's a footwork issue rather than preference I think )

    I'm looking for a setup that will enable me effectively attack with both FH and BH following a backspin. On the BH I'm looking also for a nice feel to place blocks. On my FH I currently struggle from mid range counter attack where the ball is not going back fast enough if I don't have a enough time for a large stroke).

    I read so much on the internet and at this point I think I'll go for either Viscaria or Timo Ball ALC, and I'm clueless about the rubbers (I thought about blue fire M3/2 previously), mainly as I'm not sure how to know which rubbers work with which.
    This week I'll also have a change to try Tiago Apolonia ZLC and Innerforce ALC, both with Tenergy but don't even know what can I learn from them as I don't they suit me.

    Important to note I only have access to Donic/Tibhar/Butterfly equipment, and at least for rubbers I hope to avoid Tenergy as it is so expensive

    Any thought would be really appreciated!
    Thank you for reading!
    Last edited by Haymi Shalom; 08-19-2021 at 03:15 PM.

  2. IB66 is offline
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    #2
    Hi,

    A good description of playing style etc, but if you have video footage of you playing, that would be great to see, this can help people advise etc

    Is your old KL Euro blade all wood or composite? I don’t know anything about this blade!!

    Viscaria and Zhang Jike ALC are very similar, I have a couple of Viscaria’s and one ZJ ALC.
    these blades are pretty fast, not the fastest by any means but pretty quick.
    If the KL Euro has fibres and is stiffish then you may well like a Viscaria/ZJ ALC, but they aren’t for me!!
    There has been some technical advancements with blades but nothing ground breaking!!!

    An Off- / Off all wood blade could be a good option, these will retain some good ‘feeling’ capabilities and still be fast enough with some tensor rubbers. BTY Primorac, Korbel, etc

    Another option is to have a blade made for you, by a maker such as Sergio who uses Hipnotic as his tag and SDC as his brand. You can see his work on the forum - SDC blades. Very high quality and great pricing!!

    Regarding rubbers,

    The Acuda’s that you are currently using should be fine to continue using, I think Donic may have upgraded to Acuda S1/2/3 blue (sponge is blue!!) i have tried std Acuda 2 and the Acuda blue S3 (I think!!) These were good tensor type rubbers and are a good option.
    I haven’t tried any of the blue fire / blue storm etc but have tried the Bluegrip C2 which is a slightly tacky ‘hybrid’ rubber to rival BTY’s D09C.
    Other options are Tibhar MXP , MXD is also meant to be good, although I haven’t tried that rubber, MXP is great straight out of the pack but looses a little performance over time (although some players prefer it that way!!) a fast and spinny rubber, Control is always in the hands of the user!!

    A lot of the Tensor rubbers are fairly similar so having used Acuda S2/S3 you should have a good idea of what you’ll get if you swap to another brand, for me the Tenergies feel a little harder, great for drives, flatter hits good spin etc but pricey!!

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    #3

    I think the Kong Linghui Euro is a 7-ply all-wood with a Padauk core ply and all six others Anigre.

    There are plenty of really good 7-ply all-woods around at the moment and, for a few reasons, I'd say it's probably not a bad idea to pick one of them for your re-entry to the sport rather than going straight to the composite blades.


    • First, 7-ply all-wood is what you're used to.
    • Second, they're (mostly) considerably cheaper then good composite blades and, given that many players experiment for a while when they come back to the sport, it might be more cost effective to start with.
    • Third, many of the current 7-ply woods are just as powerful as composites but are more forgiving and you'll probably have more fun getting more balls on the table.

    A good place for info on them is Patrick's site here: https://sites.google.com/view/thepongprofessor/home
    Also see his reviews on TT11: https://blog.tabletennis11.com/


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    #4
    Important to note I only have access to Donic/Tibhar/Butterfly equipment
    7-ply all-wood blades to consider from these brands would be:

    Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro (Blue)
    Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro (Black)
    Tibhar CCA 7
    Tibhar Akkad
    Donic Dyjas Ultra Power
    Donic Persson Seven
    Donic Original Senso V1
    Butterfly Korbel SK7
    Butterfly Hadraw SK
    Butterfly Hadraw SR

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    #5
    Kong Linghui Euro?!?!

    That blade is legendary! Any modern 7 ply will be a big step down from what you have. TB ALC might match the speed but I doubt exceed it, meanwhile far less crisp.

    Stick with it and get some new rubbers. With the money saved, might as well get a sheet of Tenergy.

    Bejesus, you want to replace Kong Linghui Euro?!?!

    Ahhhhhh!

    If you insist on switching, I might take it off your hands. How much does it weigh?

  6. Haymi Shalom is offline
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    #6

    Appreciate your thorough reply!

    Thank you very much for the really thorough response and reading my question! As mentioned in the below comments I think it's all wood
    My next practice is on Sunday so hopefully I can take a short video of me during a game, I hope I won't play too bad!

    And thanks about the info on the rubbers, I just learned the term "tensor rubbers" now as well haha. Your response makes me understand/think that the more important choice is the blade rather the specific tensor rubber i'll end up using.
    Quote Originally Posted by IB66
    Hi,

    A good description of playing style etc, but if you have video footage of you playing, that would be great to see, this can help people advise etc

    Is your old KL Euro blade all wood or composite? I don’t know anything about this blade!!

    Viscaria and Zhang Jike ALC are very similar, I have a couple of Viscaria’s and one ZJ ALC.
    these blades are pretty fast, not the fastest by any means but pretty quick.
    If the KL Euro has fibres and is stiffish then you may well like a Viscaria/ZJ ALC, but they aren’t for me!!
    There has been some technical advancements with blades but nothing ground breaking!!!

    An Off- / Off all wood blade could be a good option, these will retain some good ‘feeling’ capabilities and still be fast enough with some tensor rubbers. BTY Primorac, Korbel, etc

    Another option is to have a blade made for you, by a maker such as Sergio who uses Hipnotic as his tag and SDC as his brand. You can see his work on the forum - SDC blades. Very high quality and great pricing!!

    Regarding rubbers,

    The Acuda’s that you are currently using should be fine to continue using, I think Donic may have upgraded to Acuda S1/2/3 blue (sponge is blue!!) i have tried std Acuda 2 and the Acuda blue S3 (I think!!) These were good tensor type rubbers and are a good option.
    I haven’t tried any of the blue fire / blue storm etc but have tried the Bluegrip C2 which is a slightly tacky ‘hybrid’ rubber to rival BTY’s D09C.
    Other options are Tibhar MXP , MXD is also meant to be good, although I haven’t tried that rubber, MXP is great straight out of the pack but looses a little performance over time (although some players prefer it that way!!) a fast and spinny rubber, Control is always in the hands of the user!!

    A lot of the Tensor rubbers are fairly similar so having used Acuda S2/S3 you should have a good idea of what you’ll get if you swap to another brand, for me the Tenergies feel a little harder, great for drives, flatter hits good spin etc but pricey!!

  7. Haymi
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    For some reason I can't reply from my account, opened a new one (admins if I've done something wrong i'd be happy to know).
    Thank you everybody, really appreciate the comments!

    IB66, thanks a lot for your thorough response! I learned to term tensor rubber, and sounds like the tensor rubbers would be roughly the same so the key component that should be according to my style is the blade? I'd be happy to hear why you don't like the Viscaria to understand if i might feel the same way and what you personally prefer.
    I will also take a video of me playing to be able to share

    Manto76, I came back to table tennis a year ago so i'm definitely back. As I don't think I'll switch blades often I don't mind getting a more expensive blade. From you and lasta mentioned, seems like you both recommend wood blades. With what do most league players play nowadays? Is it that some prefer wood and some carbon or is it mostly carbon/wood atm?

    lasta, it's really interesting to hear. I was 12 when I got it from my coach and he never asked me what I wanted haha. If the old wood blades are better then what's all the hype with the carbon blades? If I end up switching blades I'll let you know the weigh without rubbers how much do you think they're roughly worth?

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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Haymi
    If the old wood blades are better then what's all the hype with the carbon blades? I
    Composite blades have been around for a long time, but sharply increased in popularity when the 40+ ball became the standard. At the time, the extra 'finishing' power that composite blades gave was really needed. However, in the last few years sponge/rubber technology has advanced quickly and they deliver considerably more power than they did in the 'good old days'. The result is that if you have a fast composite blade AND top-of-the-line high-performance rubbers you could end up with an uncontrollable beast of a bat (unless, of course, your skill/training level warrants such a bat).

    That said, there's not a huge difference in power production between a good 7-ply all-wood and one of the more moderate composites. For example the Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro Black (and a good number of other 7-ply allwoods) will give you just as much power as many 'inner' composite blades.

    In that case the choice is simply to do with affordability and preference.

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    #9
    Your blade is perfectly fine. I use many blades from your era and even a player in the top 10% of players can use many from this era just fine.

    The larger things with finishing are recognizing the chance, stepping forward to take it high while it is still closer to net (as opposed to letting it come long and fall down), and the ability to generate bat speed. The blade you have allows plenty of power transfer. You improve of the things that make the shot earlier or more powerful, you will do better. Very often, it is simply a matter of taking one step forward and striking in rhythm without crazy backswing.

    If you were a spinner, get a modern dynamic rubber in the sponge hardness of your preference. The makers use the words soft, spin , sound, FX, and Euro to describe the soft versions. Sometimes they use a number, the lower is softer.

    If you were a hitter, get something firmer, unless you grew up playing a soft rubber like Sriver FX.

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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Haymi
    For some reason I can't reply from my account, opened a new one (admins if I've done something wrong i'd be happy to know).
    Thank you everybody, really appreciate the comments!

    IB66, thanks a lot for your thorough response! I learned to term tensor rubber, and sounds like the tensor rubbers would be roughly the same so the key component that should be according to my style is the blade? I'd be happy to hear why you don't like the Viscaria to understand if i might feel the same way and what you personally prefer.
    I will also take a video of me playing to be able to share

    Manto76, I came back to table tennis a year ago so i'm definitely back. As I don't think I'll switch blades often I don't mind getting a more expensive blade. From you and lasta mentioned, seems like you both recommend wood blades. With what do most league players play nowadays? Is it that some prefer wood and some carbon or is it mostly carbon/wood atm?

    lasta, it's really interesting to hear. I was 12 when I got it from my coach and he never asked me what I wanted haha. If the old wood blades are better then what's all the hype with the carbon blades? If I end up switching blades I'll let you know the weigh without rubbers how much do you think they're roughly worth?


    Hi Haymi,

    Sorry I missed the notice on the PM. I'm not high level enough to tell you what league players use. But from having spent time in Chinese clubs, Stiga Clipper, Butterfly Viscaria/Timo Boll Spirit, and DHS Long 5 are standard fair and cover 90% of all players I've come across.

    I owned a penhold version of the KLH Euro and it is significantly more solid and satisfying as well as faster than any clipper-type blade. If you have troublke with mid distance speed, it's definitely not the blade lacking. As Der_Echte mention, step forward, take it with more confidence, that will solve all your problems.


  11. Haymi
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    Thanks again! I played today which bunch of rackets, the conclusion is that maybe my blade doesn't have to be replaced

    I played with
    Timo Ball Spirit with MX-P on FH and EL-P on BH. Felt very flat and too slow for me, found it hard to accelerate through the ball
    Viscaria with AK47 on both sides - weirdly one side felt completely dead without providing me any spin which was weird, as the other side was ok, but still too slow for me
    Apolonia ZLC with Tenergy05 on both sides - That was definitely the quickest. I really like the sound and feeling of hitting the ball, looping blocking and chopping all felt good. Downsides were that it was hard to control the return serve and it might be that I'll find it more difficult to loop the short, low close to table forehands.
    Innerforce (something similar to it that's not available anymore, not sure about the name) and Tenergy05 on both sides - This blade was supposed to be slow. I again liked the sound and feeling when hitting the ball. On the forehand I felt that that the arc is much higher, and the BH was less responsive to my looping, but I felt great control returning serve and blocking with the BE. So I felt i could get used to it

    In both of the last two rackets I felt thy were much more "responsive" to what I try to do from my current racket.

    This experience with your replies on the thread suggests one of two conclusion
    1) I need to get different, faster and more responsive rubbers from what I have (Donic S2 and S3)
    2) The Vascaria or Timo Ball blades are not an upgrade from what I have, and perhaps I should consider the pricier blades (I am willing to invest in the blade if necessary as it's once in a very long time )

    Here are some videos of me playing (6 months ago actually), I try to play more aggressive those days but that's still pretty much me The shorter videos are some "highlights" - photos.app.goo.gl/mNSnhuvvL7PEUKVg6

    Thanks for all the help!!

  12. Haymi
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    I totally agree with taking a step forward and I'll try to make note of the backswing. I indeed feel that most of my problems are not related to the blade, I tend to mis-hit a lot or completely miss the ball, something to do with both not recognizing the coming ball good enough and footwork.
    I'm not sure I know if I prefer hard or soft rubbers, it doesn't mean anything to me intuitively When I was young (I quit when I was 14) I played with this blade, Bryce FX on my FH and Sriver FX on my backhand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte
    Your blade is perfectly fine. I use many blades from your era and even a player in the top 10% of players can use many from this era just fine.

    The larger things with finishing are recognizing the chance, stepping forward to take it high while it is still closer to net (as opposed to letting it come long and fall down), and the ability to generate bat speed. The blade you have allows plenty of power transfer. You improve of the things that make the shot earlier or more powerful, you will do better. Very often, it is simply a matter of taking one step forward and striking in rhythm without crazy backswing.

    If you were a spinner, get a modern dynamic rubber in the sponge hardness of your preference. The makers use the words soft, spin , sound, FX, and Euro to describe the soft versions. Sometimes they use a number, the lower is softer.

    If you were a hitter, get something firmer, unless you grew up playing a soft rubber like Sriver FX.

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    #13
    If you stick with the Donic series, the 1 is firm, 2 is medium and 3 is soft sponge.

    This is kinda decptive with their latest gen, as 2 is not medium at all, the Bluegrip C2 is still prety darn hard sponge. Some of the modern gen firmer rubbers play softer.

    I used to have your preference with FH rubber - SOFT. but the latest gen tensors, a firm sponge plays softer. I use a 51 degree sponge on my FH, which was unheard of for me even last year.

    You could give the Bluegrip V1 a try if you like DOnic, Sergey Scoobie Doo used that rubber just fine and he prefers spin generation over power. He plays a good level with that stuff.
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    #14
    I've been using Acuda S2 for years. Now i switched to the Donic Bluestorm Z2.
    Same good control but better to play with the new plastic balls. 😉

  15. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Haymi Shalom
    Thank you very much for the really thorough response and reading my question! As mentioned in the below comments I think it's all wood
    My next practice is on Sunday so hopefully I can take a short video of me during a game, I hope I won't play too bad!

    And thanks about the info on the rubbers, I just learned the term "tensor rubbers" now as well haha. Your response makes me understand/think that the more important choice is the blade rather the specific tensor rubber i'll end up using.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haymi
    I totally agree with taking a step forward and I'll try to make note of the backswing. I indeed feel that most of my problems are not related to the blade, I tend to mis-hit a lot or completely miss the ball, something to do with both not recognizing the coming ball good enough and footwork.
    I'm not sure I know if I prefer hard or soft rubbers, it doesn't mean anything to me intuitively When I was young (I quit when I was 14) I played with this blade, Bryce FX on my FH and Sriver FX on my backhand.

    Haymi, these two posts that you made, you posted from a different location than the other posts. Likely it was from something like an internet cafe or a school wifi. I am not sure. But that IP address has other people who are suspicious and post spam. So, our spam catcher caught you for both posts. Unfortunately, you cannot have two accounts. And any time you post from that location, it is likely your account will get frozen as SUSPECTED SPAM, because of other people who post from that location.

    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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    #16
    Ha, noted - not writing posts from the office haha. Thanks!

    Thanks everyone I ended up getting Timo Boll ZLC after trying different ALC and ZLC blades.
    I wonder how you guys seeing it but I actually picked the racket that doesn't exactly suit my current playing style but rather that will help me with what I'm missing. For example, the ALC was more recommended for first quick attack with heavy spin, and the ZLC was more recommended for counter spins. I usually attack first with a lot of spin which made me think that maybe I don't need the blade's help for that, but rather for the counter spin where I use less effectively as I don't seem to currently generate enough power on those.
    I'll play with them on Sunday and update

    I moved my old rubbers Acuda S2 FH and S3 for BH. I think that I might start using the S2 for my BH and get a harder rubber for my forehand (to get a bit more direct feeling than loopy), would be happy to hear thoughts and recommendations!

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    #17
    what is your level? it sounds like you are a mid distance player?

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    #18
    Thanks everyone I ended up getting Timo Boll ZLC after trying different ALC and ZLC blades.
    Congratulations on finding a blade you like!

    Timo Boll ZLC is a very good blade. Before I use the current Viscaria, I used the boll zlc.
    I think I will switch back to the boll zlc next year because Viscaria's forehand is not easy to penetrate.

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