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  1. CLV is offline
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    #1

    Feedback on topspin form

    Hi guys,

    Finally got someone to film me while doing some topspins. In the movie I´m playing with a tumb-bandage for the first time. Having some trouble with wrist and tumb inflammation.

    What are the main points you think i can improve?

    Cheers
    Pieter

    Edit: i always get file type not allowed when attaching the video
    Last edited by CLV; 08-22-2021 at 12:55 PM.

  2. latej is offline
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    #2
    Quote Originally Posted by CLV
    Hi guys,

    Finally got someone to film me while doing some topspins. In the movie I´m playing with a tumb-bandage for the first time. Having some trouble with wrist and tumb inflammation.

    What are the main points you think i can improve?

    Cheers
    Pieter

    Edit: i always get file type not allowed when attaching the video
    You are a tall guy and you compensate that a bit with "round" back. You could put the feet a bit further apart - your right foot would be where it is, the left foot would be more apart from it, that would also get you a bit lower. You can experiment with it in the preparatory phase. Now when the forward motion starts, you transfer the power from the ground by pushing the right foot correctly, that also manifests by the "involuntary" motion of the non-playing hand. Your body starts rotating and the playing hand starts to move and initially all looks good to me. But at some point your body stops rotating and the non-playing hand starts to move up, like it were trying to join the playing hand. That phase doesn't look optimal. If it were correct, you'd also feel your chest more stretched - that is also related a bit to the "round" back which participates in preventing you from getting this chest-stretch. So ideally the body rotation doesn't stop, the chest gets stretched and then the playing hand joins the effort. Imagine throwing something via rotation to the left, without the "stretch" you kind of rob yourself of potential. HTH, thanks for the video.

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  3. CLV is offline
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    #3

    So your saving keep left hand down. More rotation wider stance. Will provide better weigth transfer and better shot.

    The round back is difficult to not do. I've had 3 back surgeries the last 5 years. So trying to get best possible. But my posture will remain faulty by nature

    Thanks for feedback. Will work on that


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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by CLV
    So your saving keep left hand down. More rotation wider stance. Will provide better weigth transfer and better shot.
    Yes. The left hand will stay down not because you consciously let it stay down, but as a result of the movement. It can go a bit up. More important is to get a bit more from that chest stretch.

    The round back is difficult to not do. I've had 3 back surgeries the last 5 years. So trying to get best possible. But my posture will remain faulty by nature
    Oh, I didn't mean you have "round" back always - when you stand straight it didn't appear to me at all. I meant that only when you assume playing position.

    Thanks for feedback. Will work on that
    You're welcome.

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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    Yes. The left hand will stay down not because you consciously let it stay down, but as a result of the movement. It can go a bit up. More important is to get a bit more from that chest stretch.



    Oh, I didn't mean you have "round" back always - when you stand straight it didn't appear to me at all. I meant that only when you assume playing position.



    You're welcome.

    I always have a round back even when lying down


  6. latej is offline
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by CLV

    I always have a round back even when lying down

    :-) Understand.

    I recommend TTNuri's videos on FH topspin mechanics, just in case you didn't go through it yet. Much better than my attempts to get the points across. There are also visualizations of sequences, also from other sports. It helps to put things into some frame and context, you know, given by our human condition, so to speak.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9k...wFYwmPT4wquTdQ

    He's one of many good couches out there.

  7. Gozo is offline
    says May the Spin be with you!
     
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    #7
    weight transfer is missing. Remember power from the ground. Pressure on right leg, then transfer to left leg as you rotate the waist. Over reliance on arm power which is doable if you are a strong man, however tendency to get repetitive shoulder injury in the long term.

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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo
    weight transfer is missing. Remember power from the ground.
    Nonsense!, unless is was a coal miner or oil driller.
    Power/energy comes from the player. How much weight is transferred is not as important as how fast it is moved.

    @CLV, it is easy too look good when not under pressure, you know where the ball will land and you are fresh. Let's see videos where you are playing against somebody. There is nothing like another person "grading" your shots.

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    Nonsense!, unless is was a coal miner or oil driller.
    Power/energy comes from the player. How much weight is transferred is not as important as how fast it is moved.

    @CLV, it is easy too look good when not under pressure, you know where the ball will land and you are fresh. Let's see videos where you are playing against somebody. There is nothing like another person "grading" your shots.

    Though scientifically right, in fact your post has to be considered as nonsense.

    You have to think not only about physics, but about physiology too, and regarding the player physiology is more important, natural and easy to understand and follow. Physics is always there, no matter you think of it, or not.

    So for the player "the weight transfer" is the right part of the hit mechanics, its what makes the Player to execute the kind of hit needed - required spin and Speed.

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    #10
    [quote="langel;351430"][p]Though scientifically right, in fact your post has to be considered as nonsense.
    How can you admit that I am scientifically right and then say what I say is nonsense?
    This is what I love (not) about TT forums. It is full of i#$%^!

    You have to think not only about physics, but about physiology too, and regarding the player physiology is more important, natural and easy to understand and follow. Physics is always there, no matter you think of it, or not.
    I am thinking about it. I am older and don't move like I did when I majored in TT in college. Not really but I played more TT than studying or spent time in classes.

    So for the player "the weight transfer" is the right part of the hit mechanics, its what makes the Player to execute the kind of hit needed - required spin and Speed.
    How much weight needs to be transferred? I can tell you that if it is about weight transfer I would be the best on this forum easily. I make Tinykin look small. Speed is what matters. I can twist my body and that translates to my paddle hand moving a lot and fast. You see I take into account physiology too.

  11. IB66 is offline
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    Nonsense!, unless is was a coal miner or oil driller.
    Power/energy comes from the player. How much weight is transferred is not as important as how fast it is moved.

    @CLV, it is easy too look good when not under pressure, you know where the ball will land and you are fresh. Let's see videos where you are playing against somebody. There is nothing like another person "grading" your shots.

    Hi BB,

    Power from the ground is also used in golf.
    A coach I used to have lessons with has a pressure plate in his coaching unit.
    He used to say he should use it more regularly when coaching.
    The idea is to make yourself weigh more during the swing process.
    One guy could add about 5 pounds!! Others struggled to add a pound or two!!
    i think the idea is to load up your legs and then ‘spring’ out so to speak. Put your weight into your legs/feet/ground and then use the ground to push off from. We do this regardless but it can be improved.
    So you are right in that the player produces the power / energy, it’s more a case of using the ground better as a tool to assist in the power transfer.

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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by IB66

    Hi BB,

    Power from the ground is also used in golf.


    There are frauds in golf too!?.

    A coach I used to have lessons with has a pressure plate in his coaching unit.
    He used to say he should use it more regularly when coaching.
    The idea is to make yourself weigh more during the swing process.
    One guy could add about 5 pounds!! Others struggled to add a pound or two!!
    i think the idea is to load up your legs and then ‘spring’ out so to speak. Put your weight into your legs/feet/ground and then use the ground to push off from. We do this regardless but it can be improved.
    Just because you push off on a pressure pad doesn't mean you weigh more. Your mass didn't increase.
    Only a couple of measly pounds? You should see what American football players could do.
    I am a mere 130kg. If I move at all, i will apply much more than that.
    I know, it isn't the transfer of weight. It is the speed of the paddle. The ball doesn't weigh that much.

    Do you have any idea how much force a TT ball applies to a paddle when the impact speed is only 10 m/s? Hint, it is much more than the wimpy 2 to 5 lbs of the golf players.
    Think about this. What is the impact force. Make some assumptions and do the math.

    So you are right in that the player produces the power / energy, it’s more a case of using the ground better as a tool to assist in the power transfer.

    Obviously I need something to push off from when I twist my body. If I were on a friction-less rotating table then twisting my body wouldn't be very effective.
    So the reason I can twist my body is that I can apply a force to to ground and the ground applies the same force back. The ground does not provide power it is just something to push off from.






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  13. IB66 is offline
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    There are frauds in golf too!?.


    Just because you push off on a pressure pad doesn't mean you weigh more. Your mass didn't increase.
    Only a couple of measly pounds? You should see what American football players could do.
    I am a mere 130kg. If I move at all, i will apply much more than that.
    I know, it isn't the transfer of weight. It is the speed of the paddle. The ball doesn't weigh that much.

    Do you have any idea how much force a TT ball applies to a paddle when the impact speed is only 10 m/s? Hint, it is much more than the wimpy 2 to 5 lbs of the golf players.
    Think about this. What is the impact force. Make some assumptions and do the math.


    Obviously I need something to push off from when I twist my body. If I were on a friction-less rotating table then twisting my body wouldn't be very effective.
    So the reason I can twist my body is that I can apply a force to to ground and the ground applies the same force back. The ground does not provide power it is just something to push off from.
    Totally agree, all I said was that the ground is a tool and can be used to better effect.
    For example sprinters spikes and starting blocks help a sprinter, likewise a good pair of trainers with grippy soles helps you use the ground. No point in applying all that force if your feet just slide away!!

  14. latej is offline
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    Nonsense!, unless is was a coal miner or oil driller.
    Haha, this is a good one, BB.

    Power/energy comes from the player.
    They mean it in the "Archimedes lever" sense. They mistakenly consider the ground as something truly stable :-)

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    #15
    Your left hand is in bad position even before the hit.
    Draw a line between the two elbows - this line should always go through the chest, before, during and after the hit.
    In your case its always in front of the chest.


  16. yoass is offline
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    #16

    Feedback on topspin form

    Just my .02€.

    An odd 40 yrs or so ago I was thoroughly trained for distinctive bh/fh stances. Bh parallel, fh at roughly a 30° angle (with variations as needed by placement).

    That came with a price: a stronger commitment, and less fluidity in fh-bh/bh-fh transfer. I’ve seen the distinction grow less pronounced, even in my own gameplay. My bh-fh transfer markedly improved.

    Yet my feet aren’t parallel; the bh has a slight angle, and the fh angle is bigger upon opportunity. Else; contortionism, indeed.
    Last edited by yoass; 08-22-2021 at 06:52 PM.

  17. Lazer is offline
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by yoass
    Just my .02€.

    An odd 40 yrs or so ago I was thoroughly trained for distinctive bh/fh stances. Bh parallel, fh at roughly a 30° angle (with variations as needed by placement).

    That came with a price: a stronger commitment, and less fluidity in fh-bh/bh-fh transfer. I’ve seen the distinction grow less pronounced, even in my own gameplay. My bh-fh transfer markedly improved.

    Yet my feet aren’t parallel; the bh has a slight angle, and the fh angle is bigger upon opportunity. Else; contortionism, indeed.
    Absolutely you can not achieve that for every shot. But you should strive for it. (which the coach in the video didn’t). The benefit with this is that you can get a shorter and snappier upper body twist and FH’s in the wrong corner does not become unnatural. I always have a BH stance to start with (like most players). When I need to play FH I try to take a step backward with my right leg and naturally end up in the right position. (This is the goal anyway).
    If you are using parallel feet and a body twist I’m not surprised you end up with back problems...

    Cheers
    L-zr

    Last edited by Lazer; 08-22-2021 at 07:11 PM.

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    #18
    You are holding back your forward motion. Let the leg and the body swing pass the ball. It won’t reduce your spin. On the contrary, you’ll feel like you are grabbing the ball and throw. (Physically not, I know)

    Some of the shots, not all, the right foot is not supporting your weight properly, move it back a little. Don’t think about 45 degree or a fixed position. Just feel that support.

    Regarding the back, find the right bent that makes you comfy most. I have the same back although I’m short, so I can understand. To be fair you look fairly comfy with it now. (People who don’t have a bent back won’t understand. When we stand, it looks straight ‘cause we’ve been training hard to do so all our lives. But it’s actually naturally more bent 😎 )

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  19. Kuba Hajto is offline
    says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
     
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    #19
    I might be wrong, but based on the video, I think that you might be a bit late. Like you strike the ball late. After it starts to fall.

  20. Lula is online now
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    #20
    This must be against backspin? If it is I think it looks pretty okey! Think the most important part against backspin is to work with the forearm which you do very nice.



    Wise to remember that technique do not need to be perfect as long as it is functional in game and suit the rest of your play.

    if this is against backspin and you can do a little higher opening loop that is on the table 12 times of 10 then it is a good start. Then the technique is working.. I agree with what some above say that you can use the body more but the ball is light and if you use the forearm that well I think it will always be an okey opening loop. When the opening loop always is on the table you can develop it further.

    If this is not against backspin I think you need to play much more forward.

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