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  1. Zyleyus is offline
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    #1

    What move to do when your tomahawk serve is returned

    Recently I've adopted Dima's forehand tomahawk serve, and it's quite a killer serve among my friends at school. Most of the times they didn't realize that this serve is so spinny and fails to return it. But whenever they doit with a push, it's a pain for me because I'm usually not aware of the spin on it, a light push is not enough and the ball often goes off the table from the sides due to the amount of sidespin on it.
    So if I serve it to the middle of the table and the opponent return it close to the net around the center line, what is the optimal move for me to do? And what's the spin on the ball, will the left spin become right spin or it's still left spin?
    Last edited by Zyleyus; 08-31-2021 at 02:41 PM.

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    #2
    No spin. Rip the crap out of it.

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    #3

    But the ball flies to the sides, obviouslt there's some sort of side spin. Seems like left spin to me as the ball flies to the left often.


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    #4
    If you serve from the same corner of the table as which hand you use to play i.e. if you are left handed serve on your left corner, aim diagonally across the table to the other corner, if you serve short the ball will most likely come straight back to you, if it comes back long, topspin it with as much spin and power as you can, these balls are very easy to hit back hard.

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  5. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #5
    You need to learn to read the spin so you can do whatever you want with the ball.

    If I was you, I would also learn to do the serve with enough less spin that your friends can return it so you can start learning to return their returns. As they get better at returning it, start adding more spin so you can use their returns to learn how to handle the spin on their returns.

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    #6
    I wrote it in another thread "For example a side spin serve is often mistakingly received with a soft back spin push, instead of harder direct/topspin hit/flick or even direct/topspin attack."

    I think that when your opponents were able to return your side spin serve, the return is most probably with no spin, or it still keeps your spin. I doubt that they could manage to reverse the spin.
    Anyway, when you return a side spin, you have to mind to what direction you have to move your body and your arm in order to reach the ball. If you move to the same direction of the side spin, you have to counter it with an opposite direction of the forearm, or the wrist.
    Have in mind that the softer is your touch, the more precise you have to be in reading, countering, or using the incoming spin.

  7. Gozo is offline
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyleyus
    Recently I've adopted Dima's forehand tomahawk serve, and it's quite a killer serve among my friends at school. Most of the times they didn't realize that this serve is so spinny and fails to return it. But whenever they doit with a push, it's a pain for me because I'm usually not aware of the spin on it, a light push is not enough and the ball often goes off the table from the sides due to the amount of sidespin on it.So if I serve it to the middle of the table and the opponent return it close to the net around the center line, what is the optimal move for me to do? And what's the spin on the ball, will the left spin become right spin or it's still left spin?
    I wish to share my experience. When I first started TT, there is this fellow in the club who beats most newbies with his super-duper killer side spin serve. These days, once I learn how to loop back his super duper side even with underspin serve, it is basically game over for him. Why? Coz he can dish out super-duper spinny serves but he cannot receive them back. Once the spin goes back to him, he goes haywire and his game plan all but crumble. I think you are similar in his shoe. It is so one sided.It is one thing to copy ( I purposely state "copy" ) another pro's serve but it is totally a different ball game to understand and utilize its intent and purpose.

    Do you know why Dima uses Tomohawk serve in the first place?

    Hint: These days my go to serve is the standard pendulum serve with side spin to the BH side of the opponent. I am right handed shake-hand player with FH dominant. I want the ball to be returned to my BH side. Can you tell me why?

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    Last edited by Gozo; 09-01-2021 at 08:18 AM.

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    #8

    Listen to what Gozo says. A serve has to have a purpose.
    If you can't handle the returns it's probably not the best serve for you.

    Practice a serve that sets you up to make the point when the return comes ...


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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by CLV

    Listen to what Gozo says. A serve has to have a purpose.
    If you can't handle the returns it's probably not the best serve for you.

    Practice a serve that sets you up to make the point when the return comes ...

    What the thread starter is thinking is ace serve.. He is trying to achieve ace serves to win his points and hopefully his game. However as you move up the ranks, this becomes harder and harder. The better players begins to know how to read spin and return appropriately. It is better to learn set-up serves as soon as possible because this will have a longer lasting beneficial effect and can bring you up to higher level and not stagnate so easily.

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    Last edited by Gozo; 09-01-2021 at 12:41 PM.

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    #10
    Dont be a keeper of the secret.... Just use it as much as you can a learn in the process.... And use your brain of course.

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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo
    I wish to share my experience. When I first started TT, there is this fellow in the club who beats most newbies with his super-duper killer side spin serve. These days, once I learn how to loop back his super duper side even with underspin serve, it is basically game over for him. Why? Coz he can dish out super-duper spinny serves but he cannot receive them back. Once the spin goes back to him, he goes haywire and his game plan all but crumble. I think you are similar in his shoe. It is so one sided.It is one thing to copy ( I purposely state "copy" ) another pro's serve but it is totally a different ball game to understand and utilize its intent and purpose.

    Do you know why Dima uses Tomohawk serve in the first place?

    Hint: These days my go to serve is the standard pendulum serve with side spin to the BH side of the opponent. I am right handed shake-hand player with FH dominant. I want the ball to be returned to my BH side. Can you tell me why?

    Very inspiring!
    But Actually I have no clue for the Dima question, please tell me the details.


  12. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyleyus

    Very inspiring!
    But Actually I have no clue for the Dima question, please tell me the details.

    I think this is part of his point. That you have no clue what kind of ball you would be looking to have come back at you and therefore, you are using your serves in a way that will not lead towards real improvement.

    Dima is very backhand oriented. A lot of the times, BH oriented players use serves with the kind of sidespin that a Reverse Penhold serve, a BH serve, or a Tomahawk serve all have because it makes it easy for you to attack the return with your BH. He is pretty good at attacking the return from his Tomahawk with his FH as well.

    So, Dima is not trying to win the point with the serve. He is trying to set up his opening attack.

    You probably should learn how to use your serves to set you up to attack the 3rd ball (the opponent's return of your serve).

    Which is the same reason I suggested you make it so your opponents could return the serve so you could learn how to handle the return. That is at least a start.

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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 09-01-2021 at 03:04 PM.
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    I think this is part of his point. That you have no clue what kind of ball you would be looking to have come back at you and therefore, you are using your serves in a way that will not lead towards real improvement.

    Dima is very backhand oriented. A lot of the times, BH oriented players use serves with the kind of sidespin that a Reverse Penhold serve, a BH serve, or a Tomahawk serve all have because it makes it easy for you to attack the return with your BH. He is pretty good at attacking the return from his Tomahawk with his FH as well.

    So, Dima is not trying to win the point with the serve. He is trying to set up his opening attack.

    You probably should learn how to use your serves to set you up to attack the 3rd ball (the opponent's return of your serve).

    Which is the same reason I suggested you make it so your opponents could return the serve so you could learn how to handle the return. That is at least a start.

    So I went back and reviewed Dima's match with Ma Long at the Olympics. (Where I remember ML said that Dima's tomahawks are hard to return in a interview after the match)
    The first one was returned to Dima's backhand so he did a rip and got one point straight. But all the other ones followed were returned to his forehand and he only pushed back. But returning to ML's BH made him unable to flick with his powerful FH. So this definitely is the battle between the best of the best.
    I guess I'll try to attack the return and add some varieties to the serve.
    (Really didn't look into the match that much when it was live, the only thing in mind was hoping that Dima would win lol)


  14. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyleyus

    So I went back and reviewed Dima's match with Ma Long at the Olympics.

    It seems that almost every time you post, you are posting from a different IP address (so, probably from a different location). TTDaily's Spam Catcher software does not seem to like one of those locations and so, identified you as a potential Spam Bot.
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    #15
    Dima's tomohawk serve is like this: It is an under side spin and if you were to return passively or casually, a slight touch and the ball will fly to the receiver BH side and out of the table. The server gets an easy point. Or else it will spin into the net. If you are spin sensitive and return it actively or with control, due to the nature of the spin, the ball will have tendency to go to the FH side or middle. If it is FH side, the server will loop kill with his FH topspin. If it goes to the middle then it is a BH loop kill. That is tomohawk serve's main usage. Since Dima is a BH dominant player, he will move to the center of the table, body squared and hunched to prepare for his killer BH loop kill.


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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo
    Dima's tomohawk serve is like this: It is an under side spin and if you were to return passively or casually, a slight touch and the ball will fly to the receiver BH side and out of the table. The server gets an easy point. Or else it will spin into the net. If you are spin sensitive and return it actively or with control, due to the nature of the spin, the ball will have tendency to go to the FH side or middle. If it is FH side, the server will loop kill with his FH topspin. If it goes to the middle then it is a BH loop kill. That is tomohawk serve's main usage. Since Dima is a BH dominant player, he will move to the center of the table, body squared and hunched to prepare for his killer BH loop kill.

    And if you push it back short with heavy backspin he flicks it

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    It seems that almost every time you post, you are posting from a different IP address (so, probably from a different location). TTDaily's Spam Catcher software does not seem to like one of those locations and so, identified you as a potential Spam Bot.

    Oh that's because using a vpn is faster for me to access this website, I guess I'll just turn it off when I post.


  18. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyleyus

    Oh that's because using a vpn is faster for me to access this website, I guess I'll just turn it off when I post.

    Send me a PM (some people say DM). I will send you an email to reach me. You can post from wherever you want. If your account gets frozen, you will email me and I will unfreeze you. I just wanted you to know why your account got frozen.
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    So I've tried to rip the return today but it didn't turn out so well. My opponent wasn't so skilled and he returns heavy spinned serves with a wierd twist of his wrist upwards and the ball is kinda high. But when I ripped it, it always went down onto the table before it even reaches the net. I consider my self a bh oriented player so my rips shouldn't be that bad, so should I try to flick instead of rip?

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Send me a PM (some people say DM). I will send you an email to reach me. You can post from wherever you want. If your account gets frozen, you will email me and I will unfreeze you. I just wanted you to know why your account got frozen.

    Dose that mean private message? (sry not native English speaker


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