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  1. Funk Fu Master is offline
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    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
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    How is ak47 yellow? Is it faster than blue?

    The Sponge on the Yellow is a tad harder than the blue, but softer than the RED... The topsheet, on the other hand, seemed more springy/elastic to me, when compared to the Blue or Red. Also seems heavier than the other variants, but is still light-weight. I think, the blue is supposed to be faster, but, I can't make-out much of a differentce between Yellow & Blue, since I have the Yellow glued to a faster blade.. Very certain that its not as fast as the RED variant.. But, even on a Faster blade, I feel that the Yellow seems more controlled and consistent @ FH looping. I also feel that it offers higher net-clearance, compared to the Blue & Red. ..I prefer it on my FH.

    Last edited by Funk Fu Master; 09-16-2021 at 07:55 AM.

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    #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Funk Fu Master

    The Sponge on the Yellow is a tad harder than the blue, but softer than the RED... The topsheet, on the other hand, seemed more springy/elastic to me, when compared to the Blue or Red. Also seems heavier than the other variants, but is still light-weight. I think, the blue is supposed to be faster, but, I can't make-out much of a differentce between Yellow & Blue, since I have the Yellow glued to a faster blade.. Very certain that its not as fast as the RED variant.. But, even on a Faster blade, I feel that the Yellow seems more controlled and consistent @ FH looping. I also feel that it offers higher net-clearance, compared to the Blue & Red. ..I prefer it on my FH.

    If yellow has harder sponge, by definition shouldn't it be faster than blue? Why do you say blue is supposed to be faster?


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    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    If yellow has harder sponge, by definition shouldn't it be faster than blue? Why do you say blue is supposed to be faster?

    umm... I'm not sure if Harder Sponge necessarily translates to faster ... Take, for instance, a rubber called Reactor Corbor ... I think's it's sponge is harder than AK-47 Blue & Yellow, but it's way slower than either.. I've even seen a couple of Anti rubbers with rock-hard sponge, but darn darn slow.. There're several Classic Chinese tacky rubbers with sponge harder than T05, but nowhere as fast .. I think, apart from the sponge, the top-sheet also plays some part in the speed.


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    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Funk Fu Master

    umm... I'm not sure if Harder Sponge necessarily translates to faster ... Take, for instance, a rubber called Reactor Corbor ... I think's it's sponge is harder than AK-47 Blue & Yellow, but it's way slower than either.. I've even seen a couple of Anti rubbers with rock-hard sponge, but darn darn slow.. There're several Classic Chinese tacky rubbers with sponge harder than T05, but nowhere as fast .. I think, apart from the sponge, the top-sheet also plays some part in the speed.

    You cant compare across rubbers. But within the same rubber, H3Neo 40d should be faster than 39d or 38d. Thats why I thought Red should be faster than Yellow which should be faster than Blue. But can anybody confirm?


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    #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    You cant compare across rubbers. But within the same rubber, H3Neo 40d should be faster than 39d or 38d. Thats why I thought Red should be faster than Yellow which should be faster than Blue. But can anybody confirm?

    This is hard to say, because, if the red and the yellow sponges are different and have different rebound qualities, they will create different effects.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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    #46
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    This is hard to say, because, if the red and the yellow sponges are different and have different rebound qualities, they will create different effects.

    Â

    Â

    Right, but I thought that they are the same sponge, except with different hardness.Â


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    #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Â

    Right, but I thought that they are the same sponge, except with different hardness.Â

    Are they? Why are they different colors? I don't know the answers. But, it would be worth finding out if the sponge is the same but harder and a different color. Or whether the different color sponges have different characteristics.

    Like Orange and Blue Sponge on H3, the sponges are definitely not the same.

    The sponge for Rasanter R47 and R48 are definitely VERY VERY different.

    Is there a reason the sponge is a different color besides the hardness?

    And if the rubbers with Red, Yellow and Blue sponge all have different topsheets, then you are not talking about the same thing even if the names of the rubber is the same.

    But, perhaps someone who uses these rubbers and has tried all three can tell you the differences they felt. That isn't perfect since, two people will feel different things with the same equipment. But, it is better than nothing.

    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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    #48
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Are they? Why are they different colors? I don't know the answers. But, it would be worth finding out if the sponge is the same but harder and a different color. Or whether the different color sponges have different characteristics.

    Like Orange and Blue Sponge on H3, the sponges are definitely not the same.

    The sponge for Rasanter R47 and R48 are definitely VERY VERY different.

    Is there a reason the sponge is a different color besides the hardness?

    And if the rubbers with Red, Yellow and Blue sponge all have different topsheets, then you are not talking about the same thing even if the names of the rubber is the same.

    But, perhaps someone who uses these rubbers and has tried all three can tell you the differences they felt. That isn't perfect since, two people will feel different things with the same equipment. But, it is better than nothing.
    Â

    I asked one seller on Aliexpress, and he claimed that Yellow is faster than Blue. but sometimes they just make random claims.Â


  9. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Â

    I asked one seller on Aliexpress, and he claimed that Yellow is faster than Blue. but sometimes they just make random claims.Â

    To me, it sounds like, you should just start reading reviews from Yogi and figuring out things you would like to buy and try out. Or maybe, send him a PM and ask him recommendations of rubbers and blades from those Chinese manufacturers and since they are pretty inexpensive, get a few blades and a few rubbers to try.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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    #50
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    To me, it sounds like, you should just start reading reviews from Yogi and figuring out things you would like to buy and try out. Or maybe, send him a PM and ask him recommendations of rubbers and blades from those Chinese manufacturers and since they are pretty inexpensive, get a few blades and a few rubbers to try.

    Â

    Â

    So I finally got a chance to play with the fake ZLC racket. I want to write down my experience. This is NOT a review of a Table Tennis product, because I do not regard it as a real product, but just a curiosity. I glued a Tornado v5 on the forehand, and Loki Rexton 1 on backhand. First, the blade does in fact feel lively and bouncy. I was wondering if its actually just a Walmart blade with a nice painting on it, but it is in fact a legitimate playable blade. My backhand seemed to improve instantly with this blade, Im guessing because of the extra bounce. Quality of shots for serve, receive, loop, drive were all good. On the forehand though, I felt the throw angle was quite low. I felt myself needing to raise my stroke higher to get the ball over the table. So I guess its better for straight hitters, than brush loopers. The blade is not overly stiff, it has a decent flex and dwell time, but I initially didnt love the "feeling". I thought maybe because I normally user a inner-carbon blade, so Im not used to the feeling of outer carbon, or maybe these fake rackets just feature a sort of bland feeling.Â

    Ok so this is where the story gets interesting. As the fates would have it, while I am practicing, in walks a guy with a genuine Zhang Jike ALC blade with Tenergy on both sides. He sees my racket and shouts out "Oh you have the ZJK ALC! I was thinking about getting that one, can I try yours?". So I dont mention to him at all that its not genuine, and we trade rackets. We play for about 30 minutes with each others racket. The Tenergy is just lightning fast and easy to get spin. Its a fun change to play with it once in a while. The ALC blade honestly felt pretty similar to me. I didnt love the "feeling" of the ALC either. Speed and flex felt pretty similar as well. The other guy commented "I think I like your racket a little more". Keep in mind my racket had a $7 and $5 rubber glued to it. I asked him which blade he thinks is faster, and he said he thinks mine is faster. Of course, psychologically he still thinks my racket is the real item.Â

    Anyway, this is in no way a recommendation to get the racket. I just think its a interesting psychological experiment, and fascinating curiosity about the world of blades. Am I forgetting anything? Anything you want to know?
    Â


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    #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Â

    So I finally got a chance to play with the fake ZLC racket. I want to write down my experience. This is NOT a review of a Table Tennis product, because I do not regard it as a real product, but just a curiosity. I glued a Tornado v5 on the forehand, and Loki Rexton 1 on backhand. First, the blade does in fact feel lively and bouncy. I was wondering if its actually just a Walmart blade with a nice painting on it, but it is in fact a legitimate playable blade. My backhand seemed to improve instantly with this blade, Im guessing because of the extra bounce. Quality of shots for serve, receive, loop, drive were all good. On the forehand though, I felt the throw angle was quite low. I felt myself needing to raise my stroke higher to get the ball over the table. So I guess its better for straight hitters, than brush loopers. The blade is not overly stiff, it has a decent flex and dwell time, but I initially didnt love the "feeling". I thought maybe because I normally user a inner-carbon blade, so Im not used to the feeling of outer carbon, or maybe these fake rackets just feature a sort of bland feeling.Â

    Ok so this is where the story gets interesting. As the fates would have it, while I am practicing, in walks a guy with a genuine Zhang Jike ALC blade with Tenergy on both sides. He sees my racket and shouts out "Oh you have the ZJK ALC! I was thinking about getting that one, can I try yours?". So I dont mention to him at all that its not genuine, and we trade rackets. We play for about 30 minutes with each others racket. The Tenergy is just lightning fast and easy to get spin. Its a fun change to play with it once in a while. The ALC blade honestly felt pretty similar to me. I didnt love the "feeling" of the ALC either. Speed and flex felt pretty similar as well. The other guy commented "I think I like your racket a little more". Keep in mind my racket had a $7 and $5 rubber glued to it. I asked him which blade he thinks is faster, and he said he thinks mine is faster. Of course, psychologically he still thinks my racket is the real item.Â

    Anyway, this is in no way a recommendation to get the racket. I just think its a interesting psychological experiment, and fascinating curiosity about the world of blades. Am I forgetting anything? Anything you want to know?
    Â


    yes, please replace the loki rxton 1 with a rxton 5 😄


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    #52
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro


    yes, please replace the loki rxton 1 with a rxton 5 😄

    Have you tried the Rxton 1 and 5? Is there a big difference? I actually really like the Rxton 1. How does the Rxton 5 play?

    For my next rubber, I was considering the Rxton 5 or the Loki N80. Do you know the difference between them?


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    #53
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Are they? Why are they different colors? I don't know the answers. But, it would be worth finding out if the sponge is the same but harder and a different color. Or whether the different color sponges have different characteristics.

    Like Orange and Blue Sponge on H3, the sponges are definitely not the same.

    The sponge for Rasanter R47 and R48 are definitely VERY VERY different.

    Is there a reason the sponge is a different color besides the hardness?

    And if the rubbers with Red, Yellow and Blue sponge all have different topsheets, then you are not talking about the same thing even if the names of the rubber is the same.

    But, perhaps someone who uses these rubbers and has tried all three can tell you the differences they felt. That isn't perfect since, two people will feel different things with the same equipment. But, it is better than nothing.

    I have all 3, but on significantly different blades .. The Blue, Yellow, Red is the colour of the Sponge, for each variant .. In terms of Sponge hardness, I know for sure that the Blue is the softest @ 38° - 40°, the Red is the hardest @ 45° - 47°, and the Yellow sits in-between @ 40° - 42° .. Apart from the Hardness, I'm not sure whether the Sponge differs in any other aspect.

    I'm pretty sure that the Topsheet of the Yellow variant is quite different from the Blue & Red ... To me, it looks (seems just a tad shinny) different, and compared to Red & Blue, seems more elasticy/springy to the touch & also at play .. Flat-hits, and Top-spins, with the Yellow, produce a distinct Click sound. Not so with the Blue & Red. The Yellow, I feel produces a higher-arc, compared to the other 2. For some reason, I find that my top-spins with the Yellow, produce a lot of side-spin (Could it be due a handle over-grip on the setup with the Yellow Sponge ? )... In terms of speed, I can't make-out much of a difference between the Yellow & Blue. (Could be due to the Blades) ... But, I certainly find the Yellow to be more bouncy/Springy.

    The topsheet of the Red & Blue variants look Similar'ish .. Both have a mat-finish .. However, the Red seems grippier to me, and I can lift back-spins better with the Red.. Although, the Red is glued to a fast, Stiff/Hard blade, To me, it seems the Spinny'est of the 3. I find the setup with the Red, also blocks the best, with a pretty fast rebound (dunno if this makes sense to you guys) . The setup with the Red also seems to produce a lower arc, when compared to the Yellow & Blue.

    My Order of preference is Red, Blue, Yellow

    DiSCLAIMER : As I've mentioned earlier, I've always plays with these rubbers on significantly different blades Blue on an All+, Yellow on a Hinoki Off- blade, and Red on Stiff/Hard fast blade.. .. I've never played glued the 3 rubbers to the same blade..


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    #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Funk Fu Master

    I have all 3, but on significantly different blades .. The Blue, Yellow, Red is the colour of the Sponge, for each variant .. In terms of Sponge hardness, I know for sure that the Blue is the softest @ 38° - 40°, the Red is the hardest @ 45° - 47°, and the Yellow sits in-between @ 40° - 42° .. Apart from the Hardness, I'm not sure whether the Sponge differs in any other aspect.

    I'm pretty sure that the Topsheet of the Yellow variant is quite different from the Blue & Red ... To me, it looks (seems just a tad shinny) different, and compared to Red & Blue, seems more elasticy/springy to the touch & also at play .. Flat-hits, and Top-spins, with the Yellow, produce a distinct Click sound. Not so with the Blue & Red. The Yellow, I feel produces a higher-arc, compared to the other 2. For some reason, I find that my top-spins with the Yellow, produce a lot of side-spin (Could it be due a handle over-grip on the setup with the Yellow Sponge ? )... In terms of speed, I can't make-out much of a difference between the Yellow & Blue. (Could be due to the Blades) ... But, I certainly find the Yellow to be more bouncy/Springy.

    The topsheet of the Red & Blue variants look Similar'ish .. Both have a mat-finish .. However, the Red seems grippier to me, and I can lift back-spins better with the Red.. Although, the Red is glued to a fast, Stiff/Hard blade, To me, it seems the Spinny'est of the 3. I find the setup with the Red, also blocks the best, with a pretty fast rebound (dunno if this makes sense to you guys) . The setup with the Red also seems to produce a lower arc, when compared to the Yellow & Blue.

    My Order of preference is Red, Blue, Yellow

    DiSCLAIMER : As I've mentioned earlier, I've always plays with these rubbers on significantly different blades Blue on an All+, Yellow on a Hinoki Off- blade, and Red on Stiff/Hard fast blade.. .. I've never played glued the 3 rubbers to the same blade..

    You say Yellow is bouncier/springier, which sounds like a good thing. But you rated it last out of 3. Can you explain why?


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    #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    Have you tried the Rxton 1 and 5? Is there a big difference? I actually really like the Rxton 1. How does the Rxton 5 play?

    For my next rubber, I was considering the Rxton 5 or the Loki N80. Do you know the difference between them?


    i only ever got the 5 because Yogy bear said this is the best.
    I got them fitted both side of my BTY ALC innerforce and love the setup.
    It plays very similar to a hard Hurricane 3


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    #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    You say Yellow is bouncier/springier, which sounds like a good thing. But you rated it last out of 3. Can you explain why?

    I'm not a reviewer ... I'm not too savvy about it technicalities of blades or rubbers.. Infact, when talking about how a rubber is, I'm not too sure of what part the blade plays, and when talking about blades, I'm not too sure of what part the rubbers play.. What I share is based, purely on my feeling & experience with the equipment. Others may beg to differ.. I have not rated the rubbers, but just shared my preferences, which are based on my playing-style & skill.

    Bouncier/Springier may sound like a good thing to you, but I prefer to have less of these properties in my rubbers & overall setup. Hence the order of preference.

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    #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Funk Fu Master
    I'm not a reviewer ... I'm not too savvy about it technicalities of blades or rubbers.. Infact, when talking about how a rubber is, I'm not too sure of what part the blade plays, and when talking about blades, I'm not too sure of what part the rubbers play.. What I share is based, purely on my feeling & experience with the equipment. Others may beg to differ.. I have not rated the rubbers, but just shared my preferences, which are based on my playing-style & skill.

    Bouncier/Springier may sound like a good thing to you, but I prefer to have less of these properties in my rubbers & overall setup. Hence the order of preference.

    Bouncier/Springier may sound like a good thing to you, but I prefer to have less of these properties in my rubbers & overall setup. Hence the order of preference.

    I most definitely agree with this. The bouncier and springier - the more mistakes i make and the more difficult it is for me to control the shots.


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    #58
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro
    [p]Bouncier/Springier may sound like a good thing to you, but I prefer to have less of these properties in my rubbers & overall setup. Hence the order of preference.

    I most definitely agree with this. The bouncier and springier - the more mistakes i make and the more difficult it is for me to control the shots.
    And hence the question to our Original Poster. Michal, what is your definitive position on the question of ESN vs tacky-harder-chinese?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN5L..._rgJAuIr&t=86s

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    #59
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    And hence the question to our Original Poster. Michal, what is your definitive position on the question of ESN vs tacky-harder-chinese?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN5L..._rgJAuIr&t=86s

    Bouncier rubbers, such as esn are desired by top players for their speed and spin.

    The only reason chinese players use hard tacky rubbers, is that they apply large amounts of booster to the point where the rubbers have become bouncy and softer, while retaining tackiness. And typically it is only on forehand side

    if booster was banned, overnight chinese players would switch to dignics and tenergy.

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    #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Bouncier rubbers, such as esn are desired by top players for their speed and spin.

    The only reason chinese players use hard tacky rubbers, is that they apply large amounts of booster to the point where the rubbers have become bouncy and softer, while retaining tackiness. And typically it is only on forehand side

    if booster was banned, overnight chinese players would switch to dignics and tenergy.
    OK, that's definitive enough for me :-) I was not sure you already explored that kind of rubbers, because you are zooming on the difference between the 3 AK47 rubbers (nothing wrong with it), and for me the difference between them is not as significant, as the difference from them to say H3 or Battle 2. Obviously I like playing with H3, but it seems you've made your mind, and that's good too.

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