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  1. lodro is offline
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    #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    Bouncier rubbers, such as esn are desired by top players for their speed and spin.

    The only reason chinese players use hard tacky rubbers, is that they apply large amounts of booster to the point where the rubbers have become bouncy and softer, while retaining tackiness. And typically it is only on forehand side

    if booster was banned, overnight chinese players would switch to dignics and tenergy.


    I think this statement is incorrect on at least 2 levels:

    First level boosters are actually already banned 😀
    Second: Chinese rubbers need different technique than other rubbers.


  2. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #62
    Perhaps, what MZ meant by “if booster was banned,” was actually: “if the ban on boosters was properly ENFORCED so that nobody could actually get away with using boosted rubbers….”

    But I do think you get something different from Hard, Tacky, Non-Catapult Chinese style rubbers.

    I think one thing you get from a rubber like H3 is: The SHORT GAME is so much better with H3 that many lower level players may win more games just because of how much easier it makes the over the table game (short game).

    The way a rubber like H3 works, the more you put into it, the more you get out of it on power shots.

    So, for a lot of amateur players, H3 might make it harder to play, at least until you really get used to how to use it. But for a pro with a lot of power, who trains with it a lot, one of the advantages in the attacking game is: YOU CAN SWING SO MUCH HARDER AND PUT SO MUCH MORE POWER BEHIND YOUR SHOTS WITHOUT LOSING CONTROL, that you can end up with shots that have the same top end speed but A LOT more spin.

    And I think I have already talked in another of MZ’s threads that also seems to be focused on top end speed without consideration of how much more important SPIN IS.

    So, there are many reasons why a top pro may choose to use a rubber like H3.

    But, coincidentally, some of what I spelled out above may in fact be why so many top Chinese players seem to fade and retire so much younger than so many players from other countries.

    If the equipment they use gets it’s best effects from a player who can use MAXIMUM EFFORT on EVERY STROKE, this is much more useful for a younger player who can do that to his body hour after hour match after match training session after training session.

    This is much harder for a player a little older.

    The Following 2 Users Like UpSideDownCarl's Post:

    latej and lodro

    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  3. lodro is offline
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    Senior TTD Member 224 638
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    lodro is offline
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    Senior TTD Member 638 224
    #63
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Perhaps, what MZ meant by “if booster was banned,” was actually: “if the ban on boosters was properly ENFORCED so that nobody could actually get away with using boosted rubbers….”

    But I do think you get something different from Hard, Tacky, Non-Catapult Chinese style rubbers.

    I think one thing you get from a rubber like H3 is: The SHORT GAME is so much better with H3 that many lower level players may win more games just because of how much easier it makes the over the table game (short game).

    The way a rubber like H3 works, the more you put into it, the more you get out of it on power shots.

    So, for a lot of amateur players, H3 might make it harder to play, at least until you really get used to how to use it. But for a pro with a lot of power, who trains with it a lot, one of the advantages in the attacking game is: YOU CAN SWING SO MUCH HARDER AND PUT SO MUCH MORE POWER BEHIND YOUR SHOTS WITHOUT LOSING CONTROL, that you can end up with shots that have the same top end speed but A LOT more spin.

    And I think I have already talked in another of MZ’s threads that also seems to be focused on top end speed without consideration of how much more important SPIN IS.

    So, there are many reasons why a top pro may choose to use a rubber like H3.

    But, coincidentally, some of what I spelled out above may in fact be why so many top Chinese players seem to fade and retire so much younger than so many players from other countries.

    If the equipment they use gets it’s best effects from a player who can use MAXIMUM EFFORT on EVERY STROKE, this is much more useful for a younger player who can do that to his body hour after hour match after match training session after training session.

    This is much harder for a player a little older.


    a very nice summary indeed.
    and all i can add is that as a person in my 70es , weak and crippled , even with unboosted H3 i can still give enough speed on the ball to
    catch out some opponents. Admittedly my opponents are neither Ma Long nor Fan Zendong 😁

    The Following User Likes lodro's Post:

    latej


  4. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #64
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro


    a very nice summary indeed.
    and all i can add is that as a person in my 70es , weak and crippled , even with unboosted H3 i can still give enough speed on the ball to
    catch out some opponents. Admittedly my opponents are neither Ma Long nor Fan Zendong 😁

    Â

    So I played with the fake ZLC more and compared it to my V-14 Pro. Speed and flex feel pretty similar. Honestly Im starting to really like the ZLC. The topspin drive and flick and chikita are all really good.Â

    The biggest issue for me is, the ZLC throw angle is really low. Its not a problem for topspin, but looping against underspin is really hard. The ball almost always goes into the net unless you make a big adjustment to your stroke. Its kind of tiring.Â

    Any advice for dealing with this? I thought maybe I should put H3Neo on it, and it might increase the throw angle.Â


  5. loyskie67 is offline
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    #65
    I also used fake blades from Alibaba, but the quality isn't good and the marking will peel off easily. To be honest, the feel and speed of the blade are quite good but for me, I'd rather buy a cheap Chinese blade that has a brand in it. Right now I'd like to sell my Kong Linghui special and buy the HRT PRO which had good reviews.

  6. lodro is offline
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    lodro is offline
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    #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Â

    So I played with the fake ZLC more and compared it to my V-14 Pro. Speed and flex feel pretty similar. Honestly Im starting to really like the ZLC. The topspin drive and flick and chikita are all really good.Â

    The biggest issue for me is, the ZLC throw angle is really low. Its not a problem for topspin, but looping against underspin is really hard. The ball almost always goes into the net unless you make a big adjustment to your stroke. Its kind of tiring.Â

    Any advice for dealing with this? I thought maybe I should put H3Neo on it, and it might increase the throw angle.Â


    With the neo fitted AND the correct wrist movement you should have no problems doing the back hand flick against an even
    heavily underspin serve


  7. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #67
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro


    With the neo fitted AND the correct wrist movement you should have no problems doing the back hand flick against an even
    heavily underspin serve

    Â

    The backhand flick is actually alright. Its the forehand opening loop that i am struggling with. Its just hard to get enough arch on the ball to get over the net.Â


  8. lodro is offline
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    lodro is offline
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    #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Â

    The backhand flick is actually alright. Its the forehand opening loop that i am struggling with. Its just hard to get enough arch on the ball to get over the net.Â

    sorry my forehand sucks, always has and now my decrepit shoulder is handicapping me even more than normal
    have another look at this video and maybe there is something you might be able to see that might help

    https://youtu.be/M9H6p2y1ZK0


  9. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #69
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro
    sorry my forehand sucks, always has and now my decrepit shoulder is handicapping me even more than normal
    have another look at this video and maybe there is something you might be able to see that might help

    https://youtu.be/M9H6p2y1ZK0

    Yeah again, its not the flick. Its the forehand loop against underspin that is hard.Â

    Â


  10. lodro is offline
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    lodro is offline
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    #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Yeah again, its not the flick. Its the forehand loop against underspin that is hard.Â

    Â


    Yes it IS hard and of course you know that every time we change to another blade there is a lot of adjusting to be done.
    Maybe a session with a coach will help, i am just a Table tennis clown, sorry


  11. latej is offline
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    #71
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Perhaps, what MZ meant by “if booster was banned,” was actually: “if the ban on boosters was properly ENFORCED so that nobody could actually get away with using boosted rubbers….”

    But I do think you get something different from Hard, Tacky, Non-Catapult Chinese style rubbers.

    I think one thing you get from a rubber like H3 is: The SHORT GAME is so much better with H3 that many lower level players may win more games just because of how much easier it makes the over the table game (short game).

    The way a rubber like H3 works, the more you put into it, the more you get out of it on power shots.

    So, for a lot of amateur players, H3 might make it harder to play, at least until you really get used to how to use it. But for a pro with a lot of power, who trains with it a lot, one of the advantages in the attacking game is: YOU CAN SWING SO MUCH HARDER AND PUT SO MUCH MORE POWER BEHIND YOUR SHOTS WITHOUT LOSING CONTROL, that you can end up with shots that have the same top end speed but A LOT more spin.

    And I think I have already talked in another of MZ’s threads that also seems to be focused on top end speed without consideration of how much more important SPIN IS.

    So, there are many reasons why a top pro may choose to use a rubber like H3.

    But, coincidentally, some of what I spelled out above may in fact be why so many top Chinese players seem to fade and retire so much younger than so many players from other countries.

    If the equipment they use gets it’s best effects from a player who can use MAXIMUM EFFORT on EVERY STROKE, this is much more useful for a younger player who can do that to his body hour after hour match after match training session after training session.

    This is much harder for a player a little older.
    This summary is great!

    Basically the same movement, only faster, and faster, and faster, ... and the ball still comes down to the table. Magic! That is only minor addition to 1 point in this summary!

  12. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #72
    So I played with more people's rackets around our little club. The more rackets I try, the more I am convinced that the different between expensive gear and cheap gear really is quite small, less than 15% difference. Im still curious to try a few more blades around the club, although I feel like Ive covered the major famous modern blades.

    These past days, I played with a Harimoto Innerforce ALC with Xiom Omega and Fastarc G1.
    I played with a Viscaria with Rakza 7 and Donic Acuda.
    I played with ZJK ALC with Tenergy.

    They were all good, but hardly different from my current setup. I have a Yinhe V14 Pro with Big Dipper. And I have the fake ZLC with Tornado V5 and Rxton1 (next I plan to try it with H3Neo). In terms of backhand and forehand loop-drive, there really is not much difference in speed and spin. If I was playing blindly, I couldnt definitely say one was better than the other.

    The Harimoto definitely felt slower, so the expensive rubber almost felt wasted on that blade. It was maybe slower than my own cheap blade setup.

    Viscaria and ZJK ALC were both fast, but maybe not so much different from my own. Maybe a little faster if you really swing with full power, but how often do you really get that chance in a rally?

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