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  1. latej is offline
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    #21
    Thanks. And yeah, that one I knew about too. It is US, and national is expensive, I don't need that. Provincial or commercial would be super-massive, EU or Ali...

    Im most confident to say, that a harder sponge wont give answers to your opponents.
    You're right. At the same time, I am most confident, that H42 will.

  2. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #22
    Some people said h3 is better close to the table. I was mostly testing it driving from far distance, and it just lacks a lot of bounce, even compared to other cheap chinese rubbers. Although as the tack wears off, it does seem to speed up a little. What are the bouncier chinese alternatives? Ive used tornado v5 and big dipper recently, both are good. Which rubbers are similarly dead like H3?

    So i felt disgusted by the h3 lack of bounce, so i just applied a ton of baby oil to it, and will see if that makes a difference.Â

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    #23
    You can try the hurricane 3-50, skyline 3-60, or now the new hurricane 8-80. They have springer sponges under the same tacky topsheet.
    There are other non tacky Chinese rubbers like the 729 presto series, or tin arc. I think the gold arc series is actually german made. And of course many more from other brands too.

  4. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #24
    So I tried putting 2 thick layers of baby oil on the H3Neo. It curled up quite a bit, and now the edges of the rubber wont stick onto the blade. It keeps detaching. Any advice on how to make it stay on the blade?

    In any case, the baby oil doesn't really seem to make a big difference. It still feels very mushy, with no elasticity or bounciness.

    Im starting to think that the Tornado v5 and Loki rubbers are real hidden gems. They are much cheaper than DHS, and they are quite a lot bouncier with lots of spin as well. I havent heard many people talk about them.

  5. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    #25
    Michael, any chance you can post video of you playing? All the threads you have posted and what seems to be driving your attention make me think, it would be worth the forum knowing how you play.

    With H3, you need decent, spin contact and a powerful stroke. I am wondering how your blade face is contacting the ball.

    Also, my experience is, Baby Oil is a terrible booster for H3. With a sponge as dense as H3, you are better off using a legit booster from one of the TT companies like Haifu or Dianchi.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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  6. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Michael, any chance you can post video of you playing? All the threads you have posted and what seems to be driving your attention make me think, it would be worth the forum knowing how you play.

    With H3, you need decent, spin contact and a powerful stroke. I am wondering how your blade face is contacting the ball.

    Also, my experience is, Baby Oil is a terrible booster for H3. With a sponge as dense as H3, you are better off using a legit booster from one of the TT companies like Haifu or Dianchi.
    Basically, I think I have very good topspin play. When people just see me player topspin to topspin drives, loops, blocks, they usually think Im a very good player (maybe like 1800). My big weakness is that I am very flatfooted and slow reaction. I am good during a practice situation where you are practicing one specific stroke. I am very bad in a game situation where it involves movement and reaction and adjustment. I think my rating would drop to like 1100. Especially the first 3 shots of the rally I have a lot of errors, or I am too lazy and slow to move into position. I cant seem to motivate myself to play faster.

    In any case, I am really out of shape, so H3 is hard for me to play effectively.


  7. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Basically, I think I have very good topspin play. When people just see me player topspin to topspin drives, loops, blocks, they usually think Im a very good player (maybe like 1800). My big weakness is that I am very flatfooted and slow reaction. I am good during a practice situation where you are practicing one specific stroke. I am very bad in a game situation where it involves movement and reaction and adjustment. I think my rating would drop to like 1100. Especially the first 3 shots of the rally I have a lot of errors, or I am too lazy and slow to move into position. I cant seem to motivate myself to play faster.

    In any case, I am really out of shape, so H3 is hard for me to play effectively.

    You trying to describe your play is not the same as you making a video with about 15 seconds worth of FH and 16 seconds worth of BH play. It won't matter if it is practice and you look your best. Nothing wrong with you showing us you at your best.

    Try to make a video and post.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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  8. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    You trying to describe your play is not the same as you making a video with about 15 seconds worth of FH and 16 seconds worth of BH play. It won't matter if it is practice and you look your best. Nothing wrong with you showing us you at your best.

    Try to make a video and post.

    Alright if I get a chance I will.


  9. mocker88 is offline
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    #29
    it's really a difference between rubbers and rubbers as well. When I started to play again about five years ago, I started with Chinese rubbers only. Right now I'm past fifty and perhaps I move the most among all of the players in the club where I'm playing. And I'm not a physical phenomena

    I have been going from an old Stiga Allround wooden blade with H3 and similar rubbers, and now ended up with a Yinhe V-14 PRO blade and H3N and H3 boosted on forehand. From the beginning I used the 39 deg rubbers with a little bit softer sponge, and now ended up with playing the 41 deg sponges. All in Commercial versions.

    To get the most out of these rubbers you have to play the Chinese style with the full arm swing and really get your foot work going. You wont get anything good out of plaing European style with Chinese rubbers and vice versa.

    Now there are some differences between sponges like if you buy the 37, 38, 39, 40 or 41 deg sponges compared to the Soft, Normal and Hard versions. The 37 deg I haven't used at all, but bought a 38 deg H3N and I wasn't happy at all with this one. Too slow, and not giving me that H3 kick when looping. At one time this spring I bought a H3 Hard from TT11, but the feeling from this one is that it's not hard. It's one of my slowest mushy rubbers of all times. I could perhaps compare it to a 38/39 deg.

    If you want something more lively, go for the 41 deg version, and I have found that the 2.15mm versions are more nice and give you better response when looping etc. But there are no shortcuts when playing Chinese rubbers. You have to work all the time, but when you do it right, you'll get rewarded

    If you want the H3 effect with a euro/jap feel, try out XIOM TAU II, but this one too requires some work.

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  10. lodro is online now
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    lodro is online now
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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by mocker88
    it's really a difference between rubbers and rubbers as well. When I started to play again about five years ago, I started with Chinese rubbers only. Right now I'm past fifty and perhaps I move the most among all of the players in the club where I'm playing. And I'm not a physical phenomena

    I have been going from an old Stiga Allround wooden blade with H3 and similar rubbers, and now ended up with a Yinhe V-14 PRO blade and H3N and H3 boosted on forehand. From the beginning I used the 39 deg rubbers with a little bit softer sponge, and now ended up with playing the 41 deg sponges. All in Commercial versions.

    To get the most out of these rubbers you have to play the Chinese style with the full arm swing and really get your foot work going. You wont get anything good out of plaing European style with Chinese rubbers and vice versa.

    Now there are some differences between sponges like if you buy the 37, 38, 39, 40 or 41 deg sponges compared to the Soft, Normal and Hard versions. The 37 deg I haven't used at all, but bought a 38 deg H3N and I wasn't happy at all with this one. Too slow, and not giving me that H3 kick when looping. At one time this spring I bought a H3 Hard from TT11, but the feeling from this one is that it's not hard. It's one of my slowest mushy rubbers of all times. I could perhaps compare it to a 38/39 deg.

    If you want something more lively, go for the 41 deg version, and I have found that the 2.15mm versions are more nice and give you better response when looping etc. But there are no shortcuts when playing Chinese rubbers. You have to work all the time, but when you do it right, you'll get rewarded

    If you want the H3 effect with a euro/jap feel, try out XIOM TAU II, but this one too requires some work.

    I was told by the people at TT11 that the only reason they were not selling the "numbers" (37 to 41) but soft medium and hard, was that Euro-regulation forbid this because the actual hardness could not be guaranteed. This is of course because of inconsistencies in either manufacturing or the end-control.

    I get a lot of rubbers that have stickers glued over the white squares on the back of the packaging, kinda making a H 40 /2.2 into H39 /2.2 , just to give an example.

    Therefore, buying a H3 or H3 Neo is """""""like opening a box of chocolate - you never quite know what you're going to get """""""😁

    This being said , I do love these rubbers, boosted or not boosted they give good service at a reasonable price.

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  11. Gozo is offline
    says May the Spin be with you!
     
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    #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Basically, I think I have very good topspin play. When people just see me player topspin to topspin drives, loops, blocks, they usually think Im a very good player (maybe like 1800). My big weakness is that I am very flatfooted and slow reaction. I am good during a practice situation where you are practicing one specific stroke. I am very bad in a game situation where it involves movement and reaction and adjustment. I think my rating would drop to like 1100. Especially the first 3 shots of the rally I have a lot of errors, or I am too lazy and slow to move into position. I cant seem to motivate myself to play faster.

    In any case, I am really out of shape, so H3 is hard for me to play effectively.

    You are not lazy but you are out of shape. Being is lazy is a mental state. Out of shape is a physical state. Most of the time it is the case of spirit is willing, but the body is weak. Getting in shape can help with the movement somewhat and don't worry too much, as when you play TT regularly, your weight should come down naturally, assuming your calorie intake remain constant or slightly reduced.

    Also in practice, the partner is cooperating with you to let you learn a specific stroke, but in a game, they are purposely contradicting you to make you lose the point. This is the greatest difference between practice & contest.

    Also, chinese tacky rubber are more physical demanding to play, no one is denying this fact. There are easier to play rubber out there, Donic Baracuda naturally comes to mind. Have fun. May the spin always be with you.


  12. mocker88 is offline
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    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    I was told by the people at TT11 that the only reason they were not selling the "numbers" (37 to 41) but soft medium and hard, was that Euro-regulation forbid this because the actual hardness could not be guaranteed. This is of course because of inconsistencies in either manufacturing or the end-control.

    I get a lot of rubbers that have stickers glued over the white squares on the back of the packaging, kinda making a H 40 /2.2 into H39 /2.2 , just to give an example.

    Therefore, buying a H3 or H3 Neo is """""""like opening a box of chocolate - you never quite know what you're going to get """""""😁

    This being said , I do love these rubbers, boosted or not boosted they give good service at a reasonable price.

    Yep. It's a bit of a lottery. But there is some consistency anyway. A H41 is usually harder than a H40, but of course a H41 could be better or not that good as the one before. I don't know what the regulations are here in Europe, but a "Hard" version shouldn't be softer than a H39 and all mushy I think. Then it would be better to sell these H37-41 and say that it's approximate in this area etc...

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  13. lodro is online now
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    #33
    Quote Originally Posted by mocker88

    Yep. It's a bit of a lottery. But there is some consistency anyway. A H41 is usually harder than a H40, but of course a H41 could be better or not that good as the one before. I don't know what the regulations are here in Europe, but a "Hard" version shouldn't be softer than a H39 and all mushy I think. Then it would be better to sell these H37-41 and say that it's approximate in this area etc...


    Europeans are famous for making strict regulations and laws. So, if i want to sell an item and claim it is a """39""" it MUST BE a "39"
    Hardness IS measurable, special little hand-held gadgets are available.

    Knowing about the absolute impossibility of getting it right, sellers have invented the 3 options of ""hard - medium - soft """
    These "classifications " are NOT measurable and therefore not "actionable", kinda like ""how long is apiece of string ?"" 😁


  14. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #34
    So, after letting the H3 soak in the baby oil for a few days, lose some of its initial tackiness, and most importantly moving the H3 to a heftier blade, the H3 does feel a bit livelier and playable. Maybe it deserves a 8.0 for speed. But it definitely feels way different from the initial play. Anybody else experience that the H3 gets faster after the first few plays?

  15. yoass is offline
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    #35
    Tacky rubbers do play faster when the tackiness wears off.

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    #36
    Harder sponge is not the answer.
    Technique is.
    This is fact.

    Another fact is that the optimal rubber was probably created long ago.
    I can't see where anything new is actually new.

    Others have already pointed out that the dwell time is shorter with hard rubbers.
    Now, I am trolling.
    Is is better to have a longer or short dwell time?
    USDC has already heard my arguments about long dwell times in a private message.
    I got no response.





  17. Der_Echte is offline
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    #37
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    Harder sponge is not the answer.
    Technique is.
    This is fact.

    Another fact is that the optimal rubber was probably created long ago.
    I can't see where anything new is actually new.

    Others have already pointed out that the dwell time is shorter with hard rubbers.
    Now, I am trolling.
    Is is better to have a longer or short dwell time?
    USDC has already heard my arguments about long dwell times in a private message.
    I got no response.

    I can say this about modern dynamic offensive rubbers.

    It is all about IMPACT.

    So, on one level, what BB says (that it is about technique) is right.

    A softer sponge (and also a supple topsheet) makes it easier for the topsheet to wrap the ball while you get bat speed up. I believe that is why some less than elite or less than advanced players do well looping with a softer sponge. They do not have the needed bat speed of control of impact to use a hard sponge of the same modern dynamic offensive rubber.

    A harder sponge of the same modern dynamic offensive rubber reuires both a fast bat speed and a different impact control to get that rubber to play right. Beggining, most intermediate, and some advanced players do not have this impact.

    For the longest time, I had the bat speed, but not the impact control to make good use of the harder spnged dynamic offensive rubbers. My improvement over the last couple years has now enabled me to begin to use these rubbers on FH effectively, even now I prefer 51 degree of my rubber over 47 of the same rubber on FH... and I was a user of soft rubber on FH... think T05FX, FX-S and similar ones.

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  18. Der_Echte is offline
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    #38
    I can say this - that when the TSOS (Scoobie Doo AKA Sergey) some day soon registers and starts talking on this forum, y'all gunna hear his voice about H3 real loud. The man got stuff to say and he isn't a slouch.

    He feels a lot like I do about H3, but hasn't come on the forums to reveal his views, which were already solidified YEARS before I became his friend.

    The REAL H3 expert on this forum (besides a real high post count dude who uses H3 UNBOOSTED) is the world's largest EJ by far - TTD member ERM, a former youth national player in TT and that racket sport that makes a lot of money.
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  19. IB66 is offline
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    #39
    A rubber such as Andro R53 has a hard(ish) 53 degree bouncy sponge, and a soft feeling grippy top sheet. this rubber requires a much better and consistent technique than the R48 version. R53 is not as forgiving, in that the PLAYERS CONTROL of the bat has to be better, So Andro's adverts for the R53/48 (and now I think there's now a 45 degree version), sum things up pretty well,
    "R53 For Me" (Simon Gauzy [PRO]) "R48/45 For You" (Us !!!) Its all down to better technique, timing, feel, consistency etc Once you attain a certain level of proficiency then some rubbers will be better suited to your standard of skill.

    Some players just don't like H3/H3neo/Skyline2/3/H8/H8-80 etc because they still retain, to varying degrees, that 'dead' feeling typical of Chinese style tacky rubber. The combination of a tacky rubber top sheet and the less bouncy hard sponges requires the user to to be able to produce additional power from their stroke technique, combined with brushing the ball.

    Remember that Chinese National Team Players (CNTP) don't necessarily use H3 variants on their FH side because they are blisteringly fast.
    Remember also that their rubbers will be tuned or boosted (at the factory!!!!!) to their personal liking or preference, so they will play quicker, feel softer etc
    For many years a 'go to' set up was H3 variant on FH and T05 BH, when they needed speed for FH smashes they would twiddle the T05 onto FH, because it gave some extra speed and was easier to finish a point with a flatter hit, where spin is not as important. flatter hits ARE NOT really H3's best characteristic!!
    The T05 was also better suited to their BH technique, in general terms, it's harder to produce the high end power/speed on the BH side which they are able to produce with their FH. So the faster bouncier T05 met the technique attributes better, there are now some CNTP's that use the softer 37 degree versions on their BH as its slightly better suited to this, rather than a hard 41 degree version.
    There may even be one or two using the softer versions on FH but I'm not 100% sure on this.
    So using a softer sponge version may be worth trying on your FH.

    If you are going to go down the boosting route then get some Seamoon, or Falco (long term) booster and give those a go.
    on a personal note, I just can't be bothered with the hassle of boosting!!!!🙄😄




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  20. Kuba Hajto is offline
    says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
     
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    Kuba Hajto is offline
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    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by IB66
    A rubber such as Andro R53 has a hard(ish) 53 degree bouncy sponge, and a soft feeling grippy top sheet. this rubber requires a much better and consistent technique than the R48 version. R53 is not as forgiving, in that the PLAYERS CONTROL of the bat has to be better, So Andro's adverts for the R53/48 (and now I think there's now a 45 degree version), sum things up pretty well,
    "R53 For Me" (Simon Gauzy [PRO]) "R48/45 For You" (Us !!!) Its all down to better technique, timing, feel, consistency etc Once you attain a certain level of proficiency then some rubbers will be better suited to your standard of skill.

    Some players just don't like H3/H3neo/Skyline2/3/H8/H8-80 etc because they still retain, to varying degrees, that 'dead' feeling typical of Chinese style tacky rubber. The combination of a tacky rubber top sheet and the less bouncy hard sponges requires the user to to be able to produce additional power from their stroke technique, combined with brushing the ball.

    Remember that Chinese National Team Players (CNTP) don't necessarily use H3 variants on their FH side because they are blisteringly fast.
    Remember also that their rubbers will be tuned or boosted (at the factory!!!!!) to their personal liking or preference, so they will play quicker, feel softer etc
    For many years a 'go to' set up was H3 variant on FH and T05 BH, when they needed speed for FH smashes they would twiddle the T05 onto FH, because it gave some extra speed and was easier to finish a point with a flatter hit, where spin is not as important. flatter hits ARE NOT really H3's best characteristic!!
    The T05 was also better suited to their BH technique, in general terms, it's harder to produce the high end power/speed on the BH side which they are able to produce with their FH. So the faster bouncier T05 met the technique attributes better, there are now some CNTP's that use the softer 37 degree versions on their BH as its slightly better suited to this, rather than a hard 41 degree version.
    There may even be one or two using the softer versions on FH but I'm not 100% sure on this.
    So using a softer sponge version may be worth trying on your FH.

    If you are going to go down the boosting route then get some Seamoon, or Falco (long term) booster and give those a go.
    on a personal note, I just can't be bothered with the hassle of boosting!!!!🙄😄

    For me, the biggest difference between bouncy grippy rubbers and dead hard tacky rubbers is that with the latter, in order to be effective you have to commit to the ball when the time is right. With the bouncy rubbers, I usually can afford a little bit more hesitation. That being said. I have a much harder time playing stupid fast and spinny balls with bouncy grippie rubbers. While playing with Battle 2, Hurricane 3, and whatnot I could whale as much force as I humanly could input. With Fastarc G1, Gewo El Pro 48, Rakza 7 and similar I have issues transmitting all the force to the ball. Usually, the ball goes way too deep into the sponge and hits the blade way too early.

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