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  1. Dimitri is offline
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    #1

    Some advice please

    Hello everyone
    I have come back to TT after 30 years and rediscovered my love for the game. I visited a local TT store specializing predominately in DHS equipment so I bought a DHS 301 bat with DHS Hurricane 8 rubbers for FH and BH. Now my game is predominately played close to the table. I love speed and both my FH and BH shots are played flatter although I am not adverse to playing topspin on both FH and BH however it is not a heavy topspin where the bat starts from a lower point. My strength is flatter shots and blocking on both sides.
    My question is am I using rubbers to help my game or are there other rubbers more suited to my style of play ? Should I stick with Chinese rubbers or move to European style rubbers ?
    Back when I started playing you either used Yasaka Mark V or Butterfly Sriver.
    cheers
    Dimitri

  2. Gozo is offline
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    #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri
    Hello everyone
    I have come back to TT after 30 years and rediscovered my love for the game. I visited a local TT store specializing predominately in DHS equipment so I bought a DHS 301 bat with DHS Hurricane 8 rubbers for FH and BH. Now my game is predominately played close to the table. I love speed and both my FH and BH shots are played flatter although I am not adverse to playing topspin on both FH and BH however it is not a heavy topspin where the bat starts from a lower point. My strength is flatter shots and blocking on both sides.
    My question is am I using rubbers to help my game or are there other rubbers more suited to my style of play ? Should I stick with Chinese rubbers or move to European style rubbers ?
    Back when I started playing you either used Yasaka Mark V or Butterfly Sriver.
    cheers
    Dimitri
    The stickiness or tackiness is there to help make spin / ball rotation. If you are not using it to create spin, then there is not much point is using the tacky feature. As for flat-shot, a catapult / trampoline effect sponge is more ideally suited. However, my caveat is such:

    TT is a game designed to favour spin and to take advantage of the Magnus effect. A flat-hitter and plain blocker while may be seen to be effective at the moment, it can only bring you to a certain limit. As you progress to meet higher level player, you will find that they will easily negate and neutralize these flat hit with a fast block or create so much backspin with their return where you just don't have the opportunity to flat-smash anymore. Same goes for blocking, better player will smile and attack your block return incessantly.

    So, learn to spin at all cost. You'll thank yourself when you reach the higher levels.

    NB: I too went through the same phase. I can muscle my way through the lower skill players or noobs with flat-smash, but then after a while, I aspire to play with the higher level boys. So I have to learn to spin to bring my game closer to their level or else I will not get a chance to play with them and will remain at the low tier group.

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    #3

    I do spin, it's just not exaggerated like the Chinese style and to be honest I'm not sure if I want to be that player. I think to progress your game and move up the rankings you need an all round game not just focusing on one attribute. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for your feedback.

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    #4
    I from an era even before You. In those days the ball was different and easier to spin. The game has
    has changed to be more speed oriented than spin oriented. There are hardly any defensive players
    left anymore...

    I just hate sticky rubbers with little bounce (Chinese style). I like bouncy medium hard non sticky ones.
    I will recommend You Yasaka Rakza 7 (European style) on both sides.

    Cheers
    L-zr

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  5. ttarc is offline
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri
    Hello everyone
    I have come back to TT after 30 years and rediscovered my love for the game. I visited a local TT store specializing predominately in DHS equipment so I bought a DHS 301 bat with DHS Hurricane 8 rubbers for FH and BH. Now my game is predominately played close to the table. I love speed and both my FH and BH shots are played flatter although I am not adverse to playing topspin on both FH and BH however it is not a heavy topspin where the bat starts from a lower point. My strength is flatter shots and blocking on both sides.
    My question is am I using rubbers to help my game or are there other rubbers more suited to my style of play ? Should I stick with Chinese rubbers or move to European style rubbers ?
    Back when I started playing you either used Yasaka Mark V or Butterfly Sriver.
    cheers
    Dimitri
    Not only Mark V and Sriver, there were also Banda Coppa and Donic Vario to be used with lots of speed glue or in my case (the last two or three years afair before my 28 year TT hiatus) tacky, Chinese rubbers on the FH

    What I find interesting is that today some female top players are also using these kind of setups for their usually close(r) to the table play.
    Chen Meng: Hurricane 3 blue sponge, Hurricane 8-80
    Jeon Ji-hee: Bty Viscaria Golden, Skyline TG2 40° on FH, Hurricane 8-80 on backhand (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7BjM7E5xKM)
    Shin Yu-bin: DHS Hurricane Long 5, Hurricane 3 blue sponge FH, Tenergy 05 BH (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDJO6H57eF0)
    Yang Ha-eun: DHS Hurricane Long 5, Hurricane 3 orange sponge FH, Tenergy 80 BH (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h27aUudxUws)

    In short: Nothing wrong with your setup but some variability doesn't hurt i.e. from flat, fast hits with less/no spin to slow and fast shots loaded with spin. Depending on your backhand (style/technique) the softer Hurricane 8-80 might work better than the usual H8.

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    #6
    For flatter hitting I feel that there are some better alternatives to H3 / H3 neo etc.
    Putting some spin on is always an advantage, as the topspin pulls the ball back down onto the table.
    With H3 etc I find you have to be more precise when flat hitting, its not H3's best attribute, brush looping and brush top spins ARE.
    So as Lazer said Rakza 7 may be a better option. R48, D09C, T05 are very good for flatter hits but can still put loads of spin on the ball. as can Rakza Z.
    Rakza Z and D09C have slight tackiness, R48, T05 & Rakza 7 don't have any tackiness but have grippy top sheets.
    Personally I would say that flatter hits are easier with a Euro/Jap grippy top sheet & bouncy sponge, you can still brush loop as well.
    With the H3 type rubbers flatter hits are still possible, but the margin for error is smaller, so more precision could be needed.
    H3/H3Neo - tacky top sheet 'dead(ish)' sponge. (Chinese type rubbers) flat hits not their 'forte' can still be accomplished,
    D09C, Rakza Z, Xiom Tau 2 - tacky(ish) top sheet bouncy sponge (Hybrid rubbers, mix in between Euro/Jap and Chinese type) flat hits easier
    T05, R48, Rakza 7 - grippy top sheet, bouncy sponge (Euro/Jap type rubbers) better for flat hits.
    H8-80 is, for me, more towards a Chinese type rubber, the sponge does have more bounce, but if you put it in with the 'hybrid' type rubbers, it would be closer to a Chinese rubber than any of the hybrid rubbers I've mentioned. I use this rubber, and have for about 3 - 4 months now, I love the spin and looping capabilities of this rubber!! flatter hits are a little easier than with say, H3Neo, but only slightly.
    hope this helps, remember this is a 'personal' opinion!!!

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    #7
    Hybridrubbers like the guy above mention could be an good alternative. It is a mix between European rubbers and tacky rubbers with more lively sponge and tacky surface.

    I think tacky rubbers with hard sponge will make it difficult for you too flathit hard but I also believe that tacky rubbers will help you to still get some spin. So maybe hybrid is they way to go.

    you will probably get much more consistency if you can get more spin on your strokes. If you really want to flathit and want to use it further maybe you should consider trying short pimples. Easier to smash through spin with those.

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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri
    Hello everyone
    I have come back to TT after 30 years and rediscovered my love for the game. I visited a local TT store specializing predominately in DHS equipment so I bought a DHS 301 bat with DHS Hurricane 8 rubbers for FH and BH. Now my game is predominately played close to the table. I love speed and both my FH and BH shots are played flatter although I am not adverse to playing topspin on both FH and BH however it is not a heavy topspin where the bat starts from a lower point. My strength is flatter shots and blocking on both sides.
    My question is am I using rubbers to help my game or are there other rubbers more suited to my style of play ? Should I stick with Chinese rubbers or move to European style rubbers ?
    Back when I started playing you either used Yasaka Mark V or Butterfly Sriver.
    cheers
    Dimitri

    Hi Dimitri
    Take a look at some modern high performance SP rubbes
    like:-
    Moristo
    Spinlord Waran
    victas 101
    victas. 102
    victas 103

    which are all fast and capable of good spin when serving

    These rubbers are much more dynamic than the short pimples of 10 20 years ago.
    You will have the ability to counterdrive and block aganst the big spin players
    good luck

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    #9
    Thanks everyone for your replies. As I've mentioned I do spin on both sides just not exaggerated. You have given me some ideas that I will follow up on.
    cheers
    Dimitri

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    #10
    The rubbers are fine, although the hurricane 8 has a really low throw angle.

    The blade however, is not good for European style of play. It's a Chinese topspin focused blade. I would suggest something that's equally good in all shots, not optimized for topspin at the expense of other shots.

    Middle of the road all wood blades are Persson Powerplay or tibhar force pro black edition.

    I do not like to recommend carbon blades. However, you might be happy with a medium speed one as well.

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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeen
    The rubbers are fine, although the hurricane 8 has a really low throw angle.

    The blade however, is not good for European style of play. It's a Chinese topspin focused blade. I would suggest something that's equally good in all shots, not optimized for topspin at the expense of other shots.

    Middle of the road all wood blades are Persson Powerplay or tibhar force pro black edition.

    I do not like to recommend carbon blades. However, you might be happy with a medium speed one as well.

    I don't think so.
    That blade performs very similar to Long 5, but it doesn't make it just for Chinese rubbers and style only.
    It performs very well with euro tensors too.
    It would be great with Xiom Omega 7 Asia and Tour, and it has been tested and confirmed by some of our pro players.
    Though the blade is not of the same quality and consistency as the Long 5.

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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by langel

    I don't think so.
    That blade performs very similar to Long 5, but it doesn't make it just for Chinese rubbers and style only.
    It performs very well with euro tensors too.
    It would be great with Xiom Omega 7 Asia and Tour, and it has been tested and confirmed by some of our pro players.
    Though the blade is not of the same quality and consistency as the Long 5.

    You didn't get the point. I never said it would be for Chinese style only. However, since OP's playing style clearly isn't primarily focused on looping most balls, it's not an ideal choice. He would do better with a blade with more all-round features. And bringing up pro players is irrelevant, they are looking for different features than average players.

    Besides that, the blade just bends too much, it's not stable enough for Abs balls. Also very inconsistent quality - mine had 75g! Maybe the thicker core version fixed those issues. Anyways, I would not recommend the normal version.


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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeen

    You didn't get the point. I never said it would be for Chinese style only. However, since OP's playing style clearly isn't primarily focused on looping most balls, it's not an ideal choice. He would do better with a blade with more all-round features. And bringing up pro players is irrelevant, they are looking for different features than average players.

    Besides that, the blade just bends too much, it's not stable enough for Abs balls. Also very inconsistent quality - mine had 75g! Maybe the thicker core version fixed those issues. Anyways, I would not recommend the normal version.

    Maybe your conclusions are based on the low weight of 75 gr. only.

    The usual weight of both DHS 301 and 301X is between 85-92 gr.

    The blade is designed to play better with harder rubbers like the ones I've mentioned, as well as with Gold Arc 8, especially with it's 50 deg version.
    And it loops well.

    Of course the technique is a must.

    If your point is that the OP lacks the technique and needs ALL+ blade with softer rubbers, its another story, but looping with such combo needs it's techniques too.

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by langel

    Maybe your conclusions are based on the low weight of 75 gr. only.

    The usual weight of both DHS 301 and 301X is between 85-92 gr.

    The blade is designed to play better with harder rubbers like the ones I've mentioned, as well as with Gold Arc 8, especially with it's 50 deg version.
    And it loops well.

    Of course the technique is a must.

    If your point is that the OP lacks the technique and needs ALL+ blade with softer rubbers, its another story, but looping with such combo needs it's techniques too.

    You're still missing the point. It's not about whether a blade is capable of performing certain shots. It's about what kind of shots it is optimized for.

    Implying that by all-round features I mean he should use an ALL blade is also a miss. OP said he is more a speed than a spin player. Which by default should make clear to anyone knowledgeable in equipment that most Chinese equipment isn't an optimal fit. He will do better with a reasonably stiff blade. And that can be anything across the speed range of TSPW to FPBE to primorac carbon.


  15. Kuba Hajto is offline
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeen

    You're still missing the point. It's not about whether a blade is capable of performing certain shots. It's about what kind of shots it is optimized for.Implying that by all-round features I mean he should use an ALL blade is also a miss. OP said he is more a speed than a spin player. Which by default should make clear to anyone knowledgeable in equipment that most Chinese equipment isn't an optimal fit. He will do better with a reasonably stiff blade. And that can be anything across the speed range of TSPW to FPBE to primorac carbon.

    Agreed. When you go flexible you sacrifice a bit of flat hitting performance. As MOG can attest to I believe.Dear OP it is not whether you spin the ball, it is whether you brush it. If you hit relatively flat you still can add some decent spin.I believe that you could be possibly happy with some good 7 ply blade. As other mentioned Tibhar 7 plies are excellent, even Tibhar Curious. The mentioned Samsonov and Bernadette blades are very good as well. I highly recommend looking for a used 7 ply blade, because there is a lot of them circulating. Sanwei Fextra should also be pretty good. It's only like 20$...

    When it comes to rubbers. If you would retain a little bit of Chinese tacky feel (there is a certain feeling about how rubber grabs the ball).you can check Nittaku Fastarc G1, Xiome Omega V Tour/Asia and MXS. If you would like something that is very good in between I can highly recommend Gewo El Pro 48 (underpriced underappreciated gem in my opinion). If you would something that is particularly spin insensitive but can deliver spin Donic Bluefire is good choice. If you would like something very fast and bouncy then MXP. There is also Tenergy 05 which I particularly do not recommend because I think that it usually is a bit too small for too much for us amateurs, it has a high price and most of us won't be able to get benefit, meaning all mentioned premium rubbers will be just as good if not better.I particularly like Bluefire and Gewo because they have extremely high performance and are easy to use. There is also nothing bad with mixing and matching rubbers. I went with G1 FH because I wanted stiffer top sheet and with Gewo El Pro 48 on BH because I wanted a flexible top sheet with nice bounce.

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    Last edited by Kuba Hajto; 10-03-2021 at 08:20 AM.
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    #16
    If you are a flat hitter, blocking style of game, then check out LOKI T3. It's quite fast, not that spinny, and could work for you.

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto

    Agreed. When you go flexible you sacrifice a bit of flat hitting performance. As MOG can attest to I believe.Dear OP it is not whether you spin the ball, it is whether you brush it. If you hit relatively flat you still can add some decent spin.I believe that you could be possibly happy with some good 7 ply blade. As other mentioned Tibhar 7 plies are excellent, even Tibhar Curious. The mentioned Samsonov and Bernadette blades are very good as well. I highly recommend looking for a used 7 ply blade, because there is a lot of them circulating. Sanwei Fextra should also be pretty good. It's only like 20$...

    When it comes to rubbers. If you would retain a little bit of Chinese tacky feel (there is a certain feeling about how rubber grabs the ball).you can check Nittaku Fastarc G1, Xiome Omega V Tour/Asia and MXS. If you would like something that is very good in between I can highly recommend Gewo El Pro 48 (underpriced underappreciated gem in my opinion). If you would something that is particularly spin insensitive but can deliver spin Donic Bluefire is good choice. If you would like something very fast and bouncy then MXP. There is also Tenergy 05 which I particularly do not recommend because I think that it usually is a bit too small for too much for us amateurs, it has a high price and most of us won't be able to get benefit, meaning all mentioned premium rubbers will be just as good if not better.I particularly like Bluefire and Gewo because they have extremely high performance and are easy to use. There is also nothing bad with mixing and matching rubbers. I went with G1 FH because I wanted stiffer top sheet and with Gewo El Pro 48 on BH because I wanted a flexible top sheet with nice bounce.


    You definitely can't recommend Xiom Omega V Asia as a "hitting-snapping" rubber.
    It's a hard-semy hard sponge with a hard top sheet and is sensitive to the incoming spin.
    It's a thin-brush style spin rubber, and it's not meant for passive play, though it is fast and accurate with well techniqued spin shots.
    Xiom Omega V Tour is a bit softer sponge and a softer top sheet, but is more reactive and more sophisticated in many aspects.
    Both rubbers are not meant for hitters, they are high-spin style rubbers.
    So I can't get your arguments.

  18. Kuba Hajto is offline
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by langel
    You definitely can't recommend Xiom Omega V Asia as a "hitting-snapping" rubber.
    It's a hard-semy hard sponge with a hard top sheet and is sensitive to the incoming spin.
    It's a thin-brush style spin rubber, and it's not meant for passive play, though it is fast and accurate with well techniqued spin shots.
    Xiom Omega V Tour is a bit softer sponge and a softer top sheet, but is more reactive and more sophisticated in many aspects.
    Both rubbers are not meant for hitters, they are high-spin style rubbers.
    So I can't get your arguments.
    Please read whole text and not name of the rubbers only. OP liked tacky rubbers. I proposed ab option which retains some parts of the feeling one get from tacky rubbers, but more towards his preferences. Omega V Asia is a very good blocker. If you do not trust my judgement read tt11 review. Their opinion is far more trustworthy than mine. https://blog.tabletennis11.com/xiom-...a-tour-reviews

    Regarding the rubber properties. I had somr of those rubbers. My old coach bought a sheet from me as well. All of them were softer than advertised and the top sheet was softer than G1. All of the sheets excelled at blocking and spin generation with relatively small movements. It was so bad that my old coach was able to get enough hook spin to through off my alignment only using his wrist.
    Last edited by Kuba Hajto; 10-04-2021 at 07:02 AM.
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri
    Hello everyone
    I have come back to TT after 30 years and rediscovered my love for the game. I visited a local TT store specializing predominately in DHS equipment so I bought a DHS 301 bat with DHS Hurricane 8 rubbers for FH and BH. Now my game is predominately played close to the table. I love speed and both my FH and BH shots are played flatter although I am not adverse to playing topspin on both FH and BH however it is not a heavy topspin where the bat starts from a lower point. My strength is flatter shots and blocking on both sides.
    My question is am I using rubbers to help my game or are there other rubbers more suited to my style of play ? Should I stick with Chinese rubbers or move to European style rubbers ?
    Back when I started playing you either used Yasaka Mark V or Butterfly Sriver.
    cheers
    Dimitri

    i heard that clipper wood blades is very popular in china, maybe that could be an alternative of blade, or a viscaria. jsut have in mind that i do not have experience of the dhs 301. good luck


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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto
    Please read whole text and not name of the rubbers only. OP liked tacky rubbers. I proposed ab option which retains some parts of the feeling one get from tacky rubbers, but more towards his preferences. Omega V Asia is a very good blocker. If you do not trust my judgement read tt11 review. Their opinion is far more trustworthy than mine. https://blog.tabletennis11.com/xiom-...a-tour-reviews

    Regarding the rubber properties. I had somr of those rubbers. My old coach bought a sheet from me as well. All of them were softer than advertised and the top sheet was softer than G1. All of the sheets excelled at blocking and spin generation with relatively small movements. It was so bad that my old coach was able to get enough hook spin to through off my alignment only using his wrist.

    I have played with Omega V Asia and Tour for years and I still have them on some of my blades. Tour is a much better blocker than Asia, but passive play is not the essence of their properties.


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