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  1. IB66 is offline
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    #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Bz26

    Well on first thought it may seem as only marginal money, but table tennis players aren't that rich, and especially like pro players you have to glue 2 new sheets every 3 days, so it isn't really convenient to ditch all the available options of your sponsor to continually get your rubbers on your own personel expense for a perceived maybe 5% to 10% benefit of tacky rubbers, ( national h3's are like 90 euros for one sheet 🙂) let's say you change both sides twice a week thats about 360 euros/week not worth it, so the thing is Sponsorship does play a role, the thing is d09c is the first high quality tacky rubber produced by a euro/jap company

    Butterfly, produced Tackiness D and C first, around the late 70’s early 80’s, these were as tacky as D09C, not sure how tacky they are now. But new sheet back then held ball for about 1 to 2 seconds. Sponge was fairly hard but not a spring sponge. Slower rubbers, better spin than the original Sriver.
    Bty also produced Spin Art, which can or could be seen as D09C’s direct predecessor, similar tackiness etc D09C has the latest spring sponge variant that the Diginics rubbers use.
    When BTY brought out the Tenergy series, which was and still is a hugely popular rubber, they maybe took their foot off the pedal regarding tacky rubbers?? Why bother when T05 etc was doing really well and selling !!!
    With Aibiss BTY have a slightly tackier top sheet, on a hard dense sponge, similar (ish) to H3, more expensive and many would say not quite as good as H3.
    D09C is still pretty lame in terms of tackiness !! But a great rubber especially if you like bouncy spring sponges.
    It would be interesting if Butterfly had a similar deal with DHS like lNittaku do, H3 on a BTY spring sponge…………!!!!!!


  2. Chang is offline
    says Este Milos Pleskos
     
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    Chang is offline
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    #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto

    Yeah.. and is exactly why boll used 09c prior to release... The answer is they use what they want as long as no one notices. Viscaria with Stiga handles... Rubbers with swapped markings... If a pro wants it, sponsor will make it work. A while ago Jap lady pro switched to Nittaku Hurricane from G1. She could because Nittaku makes it.

    And I don't think that the money is marginal. A pro will win with you even with a frying pan. Equipment will not help anyone. It only must give you confidence. If one is skilled enough he will win even with frying pan. One of the kids from our club defeated me with a notebook. Pros care about performance, and performance is in the hands..

    Well they could defeat you with frying pan, but no one would want to see that, neither would pay them for that. They care about equipment. That´s why Ma Long before 2015 has changed his racket like six or seven times. Beside extraordinaly high intensity training sessions, which is something every one of them has, the equipment is something that could make a difference at peak performance. Ma Long would defeat me with Stiga Allround + Srivers, but wouldn´t Fan Zhendong. I could defeat kids in our club with Srivers, but wouldn´t guys in my league. Beside training which a necessity, everyone searches for something that fits them the best. That was something that Heming Hu was talking about in on of his videos.

    Last edited by Chang; 10-16-2021 at 08:34 PM.

  3. Kuba Hajto is offline
    says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
     
    Elite TTD Member 627 1,471
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    Kuba Hajto is offline
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    #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Chang

    everyone searches for something that fits them the best. That was something that Heming Hu was talking about in on of his videos.

    That is fine.

    This is part of the hobby. That being said I don't agree with all you said. Equipment's only role is to make its user comfortable. One of the girls that I used to know won bronze medal at EU youth championships with Tibhar Curious + 2*MXP. The point is. The pros I know / used to know, play with sponsor-provided gear.

    I think we are straying from the subject.

    WTB Butterfly Ovtcharov and Vodak Horejsi ALC PM me if you want to sell one.

  4. ADurao is offline
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    #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Manto76

    Isn't Rakza Z around 50-degrees and D09C around 55-degrees? With that difference in mind, isn't the greater top-end power of D09C what you'd expect? Might Rakza Z Extra Hard be closer to D09C, and be a better alternative for those who don't want to pay Butterfly prices?

    Sponge Hardness taken on by Butterfly from D09c is 44 degrees. I have the 2 rubbers and I played for some time with rakza z, today they are in a petr korbel that I can lend to friends to play against me. Rakza Z for me has a serious problem, it doesn't transfer the sensitivity of the ball to the blade. The Dignics o9c in this respect is a superb rubber.the pleasure you get from playing with dignics 09c, it's worth spending some more money if it doesn't hurt your bills at home

  5. IB66 is offline
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    #65
    Quote Originally Posted by ADurao
    Sponge Hardness taken on by Butterfly from D09c is 44 degrees. I have the 2 rubbers and I played for some time with rakza z, today they are in a petr korbel that I can lend to friends to play against me. Rakza Z for me has a serious problem, it doesn't transfer the sensitivity of the ball to the blade. The Dignics o9c in this respect is a superb rubber.the pleasure you get from playing with dignics 09c, it's worth spending some more money if it doesn't hurt your bills at home

    Butterfly 44 degree (Shore A scale) = about 56 degrees ESN (Shore O scale) So Rakza Z EH is more comparable to D09C as far as hardness is concerned, see Yogi's review of Rakza Z rubbers.


  6. Kuba Hajto is offline
    says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
     
    Elite TTD Member 627 1,471
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    Kuba Hajto is offline
    says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
     
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    #66
    Quote Originally Posted by IB66

    Butterfly 44 degree (Shore A scale) = about 56 degrees ESN (Shore O scale) So Rakza Z EH is more comparable to D09C as far as hardness is concerned, see Yogi's review of Rakza Z rubbers.

    I wouldn't call it shore A and O. Someone on this forum made a very extensive post about it. Also Hagisv made a number of tests and the numbers were 5 degrees off advertised. Chinese use Shore A I think, and i refuse to acknowledge that butterflies 44 sponge is harder than 40 of (chinese shore A).

    The Following User Likes Kuba Hajto's Post:

    IB66

    WTB Butterfly Ovtcharov and Vodak Horejsi ALC PM me if you want to sell one.

  7. Kuba Hajto is offline
    says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
     
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    Kuba Hajto is offline
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    #67
    Quote Originally Posted by ADurao
    Sponge Hardness taken on by Butterfly from D09c is 44 degrees. I have the 2 rubbers and I played for some time with rakza z, today they are in a petr korbel that I can lend to friends to play against me. Rakza Z for me has a serious problem, it doesn't transfer the sensitivity of the ball to the blade. The Dignics o9c in this respect is a superb rubber.the pleasure you get from playing with dignics 09c, it's worth spending some more money if it doesn't hurt your bills at home

    I did not get that feeling from 09c, but I have been training with tackies all my tt life so, that might be a factor.

    WTB Butterfly Ovtcharov and Vodak Horejsi ALC PM me if you want to sell one.

  8. IB66 is offline
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    IB66 is offline
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    #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto

    I wouldn't call it shore A and O. Someone on this forum made a very extensive post about it. Also Hagisv made a number of tests and the numbers were 5 degrees off advertised. Chinese use Shore A I think, and i refuse to acknowledge that butterflies 44 sponge is harder than 40 of (chinese shore A).

    that's fine, I had the understanding that BTY and DHS both use shore A scale, perhaps not!!
    There's multiple factors how rubbers feel and play, not just the sponge hardness, so its only a guide, non specific really.


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