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  1. Brian Zhao is offline
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    #1

    D09c vs H3Neo vs Rakza Z

    Here’s my comparison of 3 popular rubbers

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    Elraghy, Manto76 and 1 other


  2. lodro is offline
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    #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Zhao
    Here’s my comparison of 3 popular rubbers

    difficult to believe somebody who has a huuuuuuge Butterfly banner up on the wall 😁

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    SamTheMan


  3. Brian Zhao is offline
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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    difficult to believe somebody who has a huuuuuuge Butterfly banner up on the wall 😁

    Lol my TT club gave it to me as a housewarming gift. If I was actually sponsored by butterfly, I wouldn’t have ever bought any other rubbers haha

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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Zhao
    Lol my TT club gave it to me as a housewarming gift. If I was actually sponsored by butterfly, I wouldn’t have ever bought any other rubbers haha

    I don’t think that lodro believes you are sponsored by Butterfly. I think he points out that he is not surprised that a player who wears butterfly clothes, have a big butterfly banner on the wall, have several butterfly rubber packages on the wall, have earlier reviewed mostly butterfly products and always play with different butterfly blades and rubbers - would think that the butterfly product is the best one. Perhaps the love for the brand could make you a bit biased. 🤔

    However, I also prefer D09c over H3 and rakza Z. 😊


  5. lodro is offline
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by SamTheMan

    I don’t think that lodro believes you are sponsored by Butterfly. I think he points out that he is not surprised that a player who wears butterfly clothes, have a big butterfly banner on the wall, have several butterfly rubber packages on the wall, have earlier reviewed mostly butterfly products and always play with different butterfly blades and rubbers - would think that the butterfly product is the best one. Perhaps the love for the brand could make you a bit biased. 🤔

    However, I also prefer D09c over H3 and rakza Z. 😊

    Actually I was just trying to jank Brians's chain 😁


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    #6
    Why dont the Chinese pros use Dignics 09c? It seems the best of both worlds with the tacky grip and springy sponge. Wouldnt a top Chinese pro hit faster loops with Dignics than with H3?

  7. Brian Zhao is offline
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Why dont the Chinese pros use Dignics 09c? It seems the best of both worlds with the tacky grip and springy sponge. Wouldnt a top Chinese pro hit faster loops with Dignics than with H3?
    I think hurricane offers better control and spin. They already have plenty of power in their shots, so they don’t need extra power from the rubber. When they need extra power from the rubber to smash lobs, they twiddle to their red side which is usually some European rubber

  8. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Zhao
    I think hurricane offers better control and spin. They already have plenty of power in their shots, so they don’t need extra power from the rubber. When they need extra power from the rubber to smash lobs, they twiddle to their red side which is usually some European rubber

    Sure they have enough power, but wouldnt 10% more power help them win even more points? Most loop-loop rallies dont end that easily.


  9. Brian Zhao is offline
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    Sure they have enough power, but wouldnt 10% more power help them win even more points? Most loop-loop rallies dont end that easily.

    At that level, points aren’t won through power alone. There are other important aspects like spin, placement, variation, short game, etc. that H3Neo may do better than D09c. For example, Chinese players have some of the best short game in the world, and hurricane assists them because the sponge isn’t bouncy and the topsheet generates a lot of spin.

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  10. lodro is offline
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Zhao
    At that level, points aren’t won through power alone. There are other important aspects like spin, placement, variation, short game, etc. that H3Neo may do better than D09c. For example, Chinese players have some of the best short game in the world, and hurricane assists them because the sponge isn’t bouncy and the topsheet generates a lot of spin.

    Well spoken indeed. Often , while watching the pros play we can not actually see the "subtleness and variation of spin ans speed" that goes into the
    professional game.


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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Why dont the Chinese pros use Dignics 09c? It seems the best of both worlds with the tacky grip and springy sponge. Wouldnt a top Chinese pro hit faster loops with Dignics than with H3?
    D09C is barely tacky, Rakza Z is 'semi tacky', H3 Neo has the most tackiness of the 3, but there are some rubbers that have as much or more tackiness.
    The 'hard dead sponge' of H3 neo isn't the only factor that makes it slower, the level of tackiness has to be taken into account as well, having the most tackiness also reduces it's speed a little.

    There's also some opinions out there, rightly or wrongly that,H3 is capable of as fast or faster ball speeds than T05/D09C etc in that D09C/T05 'tops out' whereas H3 doesn't or it's top out speed is greater. that's one for BB to comment on!!

    All I know is that over short / closer distances, fast is fast!!

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    #12

    Isn't Rakza Z around 50-degrees and D09C around 55-degrees? With that difference in mind, isn't the greater top-end power of D09C what you'd expect? Might Rakza Z Extra Hard be closer to D09C, and be a better alternative for those who don't want to pay Butterfly prices?

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  13. AndySmith is offline
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Manto76

    Isn't Rakza Z around 50-degrees and D09C around 55-degrees? With that difference in mind, isn't the greater top-end power of D09C what you'd expect? Might Rakza Z Extra Hard be closer to D09C, and be a better alternative for those who don't want to pay Butterfly prices?

    Agree with manto on this - Razka Z is much softer than 09C, EH would be a more direct comparison. That said, Brian's review is great. It's always worth bearing playing level in mind with these things - I really love RZ on a fast-ish blade, seems to suit my bang average level perfectly. But Brian would no doubt want more power on tap than I do.

    Last edited by AndySmith; 10-12-2021 at 04:11 PM.

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Manto76

    Isn't Rakza Z around 50-degrees and D09C around 55-degrees? With that difference in mind, isn't the greater top-end power of D09C what you'd expect? Might Rakza Z Extra Hard be closer to D09C, and be a better alternative for those who don't want to pay Butterfly prices?

    Sponge Hardness taken on by Butterfly from D09c is 44 degrees. I have the 2 rubbers and I played for some time with rakza z, today they are in a petr korbel that I can lend to friends to play against me. Rakza Z for me has a serious problem, it doesn't transfer the sensitivity of the ball to the blade. The Dignics o9c in this respect is a superb rubber.the pleasure you get from playing with dignics 09c, it's worth spending some more money if it doesn't hurt your bills at home

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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ADurao
    Sponge Hardness taken on by Butterfly from D09c is 44 degrees. I have the 2 rubbers and I played for some time with rakza z, today they are in a petr korbel that I can lend to friends to play against me. Rakza Z for me has a serious problem, it doesn't transfer the sensitivity of the ball to the blade. The Dignics o9c in this respect is a superb rubber.the pleasure you get from playing with dignics 09c, it's worth spending some more money if it doesn't hurt your bills at home

    Butterfly 44 degree (Shore A scale) = about 56 degrees ESN (Shore O scale) So Rakza Z EH is more comparable to D09C as far as hardness is concerned, see Yogi's review of Rakza Z rubbers.


  16. Kuba Hajto is offline
    says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
     
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ADurao
    Sponge Hardness taken on by Butterfly from D09c is 44 degrees. I have the 2 rubbers and I played for some time with rakza z, today they are in a petr korbel that I can lend to friends to play against me. Rakza Z for me has a serious problem, it doesn't transfer the sensitivity of the ball to the blade. The Dignics o9c in this respect is a superb rubber.the pleasure you get from playing with dignics 09c, it's worth spending some more money if it doesn't hurt your bills at home

    I did not get that feeling from 09c, but I have been training with tackies all my tt life so, that might be a factor.

    WTB Butterfly Ovtcharov and Vodak Horejsi ALC PM me if you want to sell one.

  17. Chang is offline
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Why dont the Chinese pros use Dignics 09c? It seems the best of both worlds with the tacky grip and springy sponge. Wouldnt a top Chinese pro hit faster loops with Dignics than with H3?

    Heming Hu just started playing with Hurricane 3 on fh instead of Tenergy Hard and Dignics 09C. I dont remeber the exact reasons why, but he has the video on his youtube channel. Whats more, he recorded some videos on his instagram explaining what rubbers is he trying and how sponsorship from DHS works. He also says that Hurricane 8-80 on BH is better than Tenergy or Dignics. Basically, DHS player must play with DHS blade and DHS FH rubber. Also from what I read somewhere, there is huge sponsorship for chinese national team from DHS, same goes with balls for competitions.

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    ShakeHold PenHand


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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Chang

    Heming Hu just started playing with Hurricane 3 on fh instead of Tenergy Hard and Dignics 09C. I dont remeber the exact reasons why, but he has the video on his youtube channel. Whats more, he recorded some videos on his instagram explaining what rubbers is he trying and how sponsorship from DHS works. He also says that Hurricane 8-80 on BH is better than Tenergy or Dignics. Basically, DHS player must play with DHS blade and DHS FH rubber. Also from what I read somewhere, there is huge sponsorship for chinese national team from DHS, same goes with balls for competitions.

    Yes i have also watched heming hu's equipment videos, he basically switched after his butterfly contract expired and started using hurricane which he has stated to like more then he got sponsored by dhs( i think he is an exception since he's only semi-pro player in Australia and not a direct competitor to china) and started trying out their other products,
    But to say h8-80 is better than butterfly on the backhand is too general of a statement, if you look even within the CNT their are players such as fan zhendong, zhou qihao, lin gaoyuan etc, that still use dignics 05 on the backhand, so its really a matter of preference and style

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  19. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #19
    Also, why dont more euro and japanese players use hurricane?Â

    And why dont any pros use chinese rubber other than dhs. Is 729 or sanwei or yinhe incomparable?

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Also, why dont more euro and japanese players use hurricane?Â

    Id say by tradition...
    I'm one of them, I hate sticky and dead...

    Cheers
    L-zr


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