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  1. amitmnagarwal is offline
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    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by SFF_lib
    Top gear power and spin is one thing, the ability to manoeuvre angle, trajectory, spin and pace is definitely a superior property of H3.

    If you look at the recent ML, he won a lot of games not due to power, but due to his rapidly changing pace, placement, spin and power. He won with intelligence.

    With all due respect, European kids don’t train as hard as their counterparts in Asia, especially China. It has many negative impacts on Chinese children tbh.

    I suspect it’s the training that brew gold medallist in China after all. H3 probably only gives them a very slight edge at best.
    Traiing and more efforts is first thing which makes difference, Tools enable us to perform better.

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    #42
    Bottom line : If you are forehand dominant, grab a sheet of H3 and don't form an opinion until your 4th session

  3. Kuba Hajto is offline
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    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Musaab
    Bottom line : If you are forehand dominant, grab a sheet of H3 and don't form an opinion until your 4th session

    For a non boosted (even stock Neo) I would say that you need about 40hrs

    WTB Butterfly Ovtcharov and Vodak Horejsi ALC PM me if you want to sell one.

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    Jordan
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    #44
    From what i know, the reason top non-chinese players don't use hurricane is plain and simple,​​​​​Availibility, china just won't share it's rubbers with the rest of the world, if for example ovtcharov or timo boll want use hurricane they have to get it on their own personal expense and it is from what we can get (at most national version, but still not personalized to a proffesional needs), so the bottom line is that i don't think it's allowed for dhs to sponsor a player outside the chinese national team

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    #45
    Plus hurricane needs a special strong booster to get the best out of it { haifu seamoon national version) , so all in all its better for them to get personalized dignics, tenergy, etc. Than to dabble with this headache...
    But anyways i don't think the difference in performance due to the equipment is that significant, i believe chima would still be on top even if all top players used hurricane or if the chinese themselves played with dignics/tenergy

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    #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Bz26
    From what i know, the reason top non-chinese players don't use hurricane is plain and simple,​​​​​Availibility, china just won't share it's rubbers with the rest of the world, if for example ovtcharov or timo boll want use hurricane they have to get it on their own personal expense and it is from what we can get (at most national version, but still not personalized to a proffesional needs), so the bottom line is that i don't think it's allowed for dhs to sponsor a player outside the chinese national team

    This makes the most sense to me. I think many top non-Chinese players would use Hurricane if they had access to fresh CNT-quality boosted rubber every week. The reasons might have more to do with advantages in over the table play rather than power looping.

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  7. Chang is offline
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    #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Why dont the Chinese pros use Dignics 09c? It seems the best of both worlds with the tacky grip and springy sponge. Wouldnt a top Chinese pro hit faster loops with Dignics than with H3?

    Heming Hu just started playing with Hurricane 3 on fh instead of Tenergy Hard and Dignics 09C. I dont remeber the exact reasons why, but he has the video on his youtube channel. Whats more, he recorded some videos on his instagram explaining what rubbers is he trying and how sponsorship from DHS works. He also says that Hurricane 8-80 on BH is better than Tenergy or Dignics. Basically, DHS player must play with DHS blade and DHS FH rubber. Also from what I read somewhere, there is huge sponsorship for chinese national team from DHS, same goes with balls for competitions.

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    #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Chang

    Heming Hu just started playing with Hurricane 3 on fh instead of Tenergy Hard and Dignics 09C. I dont remeber the exact reasons why, but he has the video on his youtube channel. Whats more, he recorded some videos on his instagram explaining what rubbers is he trying and how sponsorship from DHS works. He also says that Hurricane 8-80 on BH is better than Tenergy or Dignics. Basically, DHS player must play with DHS blade and DHS FH rubber. Also from what I read somewhere, there is huge sponsorship for chinese national team from DHS, same goes with balls for competitions.

    Yes i have also watched heming hu's equipment videos, he basically switched after his butterfly contract expired and started using hurricane which he has stated to like more then he got sponsored by dhs( i think he is an exception since he's only semi-pro player in Australia and not a direct competitor to china) and started trying out their other products,
    But to say h8-80 is better than butterfly on the backhand is too general of a statement, if you look even within the CNT their are players such as fan zhendong, zhou qihao, lin gaoyuan etc, that still use dignics 05 on the backhand, so its really a matter of preference and style

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  9. ttarc is offline
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    #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Evil

    This makes the most sense to me. I think many top non-Chinese players would use Hurricane if they had access to fresh CNT-quality boosted rubber every week. The reasons might have more to do with advantages in over the table play rather than power looping.

    Jeon Ji-Hee (Skyline TG2 40° Blue Sponge and H8-80 on backhand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7BjM7E5xKM), Shin Yu-bin (Hurricane 3), Yang Ha-eun (H3), Hina Hayata (H3), Kasumi Ishikawa (H3), Jang Woojin (H3) or Jeoung Young-sik (H3 or did he switch to something from Xiom now) use these rubbers... and Nittaku at least in Japan not only sells their own Hurricane 3 Turbo variants but also H3 National Blue Sponge https://www.nittaku.com/products/rubbers/post-61 (for around $132/€113 at little bit cheaper from https://tt-japan.net/index.php?main_...oducts_id=4915 $107/€93...)
    Last edited by ttarc; 10-14-2021 at 11:43 PM.

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    #50
    Quote Originally Posted by ttarc
    Jeon Ji-Hee (Skyline TG2 40° Blue Sponge and H8-80 on backhand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7BjM7E5xKM), Shin Yu-bin (Hurricane 3), Yang Ha-eun (H3), Hina Hayata (H3), Kasumi Ishikawa (H3), Jang Woojin (H3) or Jeoung Young-sik (H3 or did he switch to something from Xiom now) use these rubbers... and Nittaku at least in Japan not only sells their own Hurricane 3 Turbo variants but also H3 National Blue Sponge https://www.nittaku.com/products/rubbers/post-61 (for around $132/€113 at little bit cheaper from https://tt-japan.net/index.php?main_...oducts_id=4915 $107/€93...)

    It does seem like there's a developing trend toward Hurricane and Hurricane-like rubbers at the top levels. D09c is really catching on among Butterfly players. Timo's been using it on both sides for a while now, Lee Sangsu also, and lots of players are now using it on forehand, like Ovtcharov, Apolonia, and Freitas. Also seems to be increasingly popular among sponsored US junior players.


  11. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Evil

    It does seem like there's a developing trend toward Hurricane and Hurricane-like rubbers at the top levels. D09c is really catching on among Butterfly players. Timo's been using it on both sides for a while now, Lee Sangsu also, and lots of players are now using it on forehand, like Ovtcharov, Apolonia, and Freitas. Also seems to be increasingly popular among sponsored US junior players.

    I feel like any top Chinese pro would also be great with D09c. Would want to hear their commentary about why they havent switched already.

    What is the reason Timo and others have switched to D09c? They have finally appreciated the benefits of tackiness?


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    #52
    Quote Originally Posted by ttarc
    Jeon Ji-Hee (Skyline TG2 40° Blue Sponge and H8-80 on backhand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7BjM7E5xKM), Shin Yu-bin (Hurricane 3), Yang Ha-eun (H3), Hina Hayata (H3), Kasumi Ishikawa (H3), Jang Woojin (H3) or Jeoung Young-sik (H3 or did he switch to something from Xiom now) use these rubbers... and Nittaku at least in Japan not only sells their own Hurricane 3 Turbo variants but also H3 National Blue Sponge https://www.nittaku.com/products/rubbers/post-61 (for around $132/€113 at little bit cheaper from https://tt-japan.net/index.php?main_...oducts_id=4915 $107/€93...)

    So all these girls are strong enough to bottom out the H3? I would really be interested to know why these girls chose H3 over D09c. I played with D09c the other day, and it almost felt like a perfect rubber to me, with spin and control from the tackiness, and speed from the spring sponge.

    Also are all these girls using the same National version of H3? where do they get supplied from?


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    #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    So all these girls are strong enough to bottom out the H3? I would really be interested to know why these girls chose H3 over D09c. I played with D09c the other day, and it almost felt like a perfect rubber to me, with spin and control from the tackiness, and speed from the spring sponge.

    Also are all these girls using the same National version of H3? where do they get supplied from?

    Top level females team have very strong legs and great techniques.

    Chinese National women’s team played US men’s team before. You can tell they can bottom out any H3.

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    #54
    Quote Originally Posted by SFF_lib
    Top level females team have very strong legs and great techniques.

    Chinese National women’s team played US men’s team before. You can tell they can bottom out any H3.

    Exactly, this is why I find it very difficult to find a credible answer to why Euro/Jap players arent using H3. If even top females can bottom out the H3, then Ovtcharov, Boll, and other top males certainly can as well. If H3 is so much better for control, spin, placement, bottomed out power (as some people claim), why dont Euro players use it.

    Sponsorship is not a credible answer, because no athletes value marginal money over performance. Not being "strong enough to bottom out" is not credible because even the girls can bottom it out.

    In my mind, D09c should be the ideal rubber, which is actually what Boll said. But then why arent the Chinese using it?

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  15. Kuba Hajto is offline
    says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
     
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    #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    Exactly, this is why I find it very difficult to find a credible answer to why Euro/Jap players arent using H3. If even top females can bottom out the H3, then Ovtcharov, Boll, and other top males certainly can as well. If H3 is so much better for control, spin, placement, bottomed out power (as some people claim), why dont Euro players use it.

    Sponsorship is not a credible answer, because no athletes value marginal money over performance. Not being "strong enough to bottom out" is not credible because even the girls can bottom it out.

    In my mind, D09c should be the ideal rubber, which is actually what Boll said. But then why arent the Chinese using it?

    Yeah.. and is exactly why boll used 09c prior to release... The answer is they use what they want as long as no one notices. Viscaria with Stiga handles... Rubbers with swapped markings... If a pro wants it, sponsor will make it work. A while ago Jap lady pro switched to Nittaku Hurricane from G1. She could because Nittaku makes it.

    And I don't think that the money is marginal. A pro will win with you even with a frying pan. Equipment will not help anyone. It only must give you confidence. If one is skilled enough he will win even with frying pan. One of the kids from our club defeated me with a notebook. Pros care about performance, and performance is in the hands..

    WTB Butterfly Ovtcharov and Vodak Horejsi ALC PM me if you want to sell one.

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    #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    Exactly, this is why I find it very difficult to find a credible answer to why Euro/Jap players arent using H3. If even top females can bottom out the H3, then Ovtcharov, Boll, and other top males certainly can as well. If H3 is so much better for control, spin, placement, bottomed out power (as some people claim), why dont Euro players use it.

    Sponsorship is not a credible answer, because no athletes value marginal money over performance. Not being "strong enough to bottom out" is not credible because even the girls can bottom it out.

    In my mind, D09c should be the ideal rubber, which is actually what Boll said. But then why arent the Chinese using it?

    Maybe nationalist mentality?

  17. lodro is offline
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    #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    Exactly, this is why I find it very difficult to find a credible answer to why Euro/Jap players arent using H3. If even top females can bottom out the H3, then Ovtcharov, Boll, and other top males certainly can as well. If H3 is so much better for control, spin, placement, bottomed out power (as some people claim), why dont Euro players use it.

    Sponsorship is not a credible answer, because no athletes value marginal money over performance. Not being "strong enough to bottom out" is not credible because even the girls can bottom it out.

    In my mind, D09c should be the ideal rubber, which is actually what Boll said. But then why arent the Chinese using it?

    in one of your posts you wanted all European players to start using DHS H3 rubbers , because these is the "winning rubbers"

    Now you want all the chines players to start using Dicnics09 because you and Timo Boll think these are the best rubbers.

    What about : Horses for courses ? 😁


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    #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    Exactly, this is why I find it very difficult to find a credible answer to why Euro/Jap players arent using H3. If even top females can bottom out the H3, then Ovtcharov, Boll, and other top males certainly can as well. If H3 is so much better for control, spin, placement, bottomed out power (as some people claim), why dont Euro players use it.

    Sponsorship is not a credible answer, because no athletes value marginal money over performance. Not being "strong enough to bottom out" is not credible because even the girls can bottom it out.

    In my mind, D09c should be the ideal rubber, which is actually what Boll said. But then why arent the Chinese using it?

    Well on first thought it may seem as only marginal money, but table tennis players aren't that rich, and especially like pro players you have to glue 2 new sheets every 3 days, so it isn't really convenient to ditch all the available options of your sponsor to continually get your rubbers on your own personel expense for a perceived maybe 5% to 10% benefit of tacky rubbers, ( national h3's are like 90 euros for one sheet 🙂) let's say you change both sides twice a week thats about 360 euros/week not worth it, so the thing is Sponsorship does play a role, the thing is d09c is the first high quality tacky rubber produced by a euro/jap company


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    #59
    And i don't think d09c is more ideal than a national h3, each have their strength and weaknesses, even timo boll stated in his review on youtube that the do9c attacks are still notbas "toxic" as h3 but it makes up for it in other areas,so it's is just like said earlier d09c is the first good tacky rubber produced by euro/jap that gives the players the option to start using if they see fit.

  20. lodro is offline
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    #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Bz26
    And i don't think d09c is more ideal than a national h3, each have their strength and weaknesses, even timo boll stated in his review on youtube that the do9c attacks are still notbas "toxic" as h3 but it makes up for it in other areas,so it's is just like said earlier d09c is the first good tacky rubber produced by euro/jap that gives the players the option to start using if they see fit.

    ************ d09c is the first good tacky rubber produced by euro/jap that gives the players the option to start using if they see fit. ***********

    .......and I would be willing to bet some important part of my body that very quietly Butterfly would be very happy to leave small parcels
    of Rubbers lying maybe in a locker room , for the Chinese players to "find" and on the quiet have a wee play with them......😁😁😁

    Come to think of it : ""Dear Butterfly, please visit my locker-room too..............""


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