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    #1

    Forehand rubber recommendation

    May I know some fh rubber (butterfly) recommendations for ovtcharov innerforce alc please? I’m more like a basic/pre intermediate player. I’ve plan to use rozena on bh and looking for fh. Feel free to suggest everyone!!

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    #2
    Why do you need such expensive rubber if you are beginner? You could literally play with a $5 rubber and be perfect for you.Â

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    I would suggest getting something rather cheap. Equipment does not matter that much when learning. I would maybe even consider ovtcharov alc too fast for beginner, but that is your choice. I think palio ak47 * 2 would be good fit.
    WTB Butterfly Ovtcharov and Vodak Horejsi ALC PM me if you want to sell one.

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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Ksh
    May I know some fh rubber (butterfly) recommendations for ovtcharov innerforce alc please? I’m more like a basic/pre intermediate player. I’ve plan to use rozena on bh and looking for fh. Feel free to suggest everyone!!
    tenergy 05 or Dignics 05, I have this blade and it's pretty straightforward, don't buy the tenergy 19 for this blade because it has a lower arc and it gets harder in stressful moments during the game.


    when you master the blade well put Bh Dignics 09c and fh dignics 05 you get a hell of a machine

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    #5
    If you're a beginner, I think it's much better to start off with a 5-ply wood blade instead of a carbon blade to develop your feeling and technique, especially if you don't get regular coaching. And you definitely don't need fancy $80 butterfly rubbers. Seen way too many people using $350 butterfly setups with zero feeling for the ball who will top out at the 1300-1400 level if they're lucky. Yasaka Rakza 7 or Rakza 7 Soft is a great all-round rubber. Even a humble Mark V rubber is more than adequate at this stage.

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    #6
    My sentiments are usually pretty much what Andy said... however, out of BTY rubbers, Rosena is pretty reasonable for OP needs, lasts a decent time, and doesn't cost a fortune.

    Often, I am inclined to say a needed rubber is the one that comes with a few years of footwork and foundational training.
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyK
    If you're a beginner, I think it's much better to start off with a 5-ply wood blade instead of a carbon blade to develop your feeling and technique, especially if you don't get regular coaching. And you definitely don't need fancy $80 butterfly rubbers. Seen way too many people using $350 butterfly setups with zero feeling for the ball who will top out at the 1300-1400 level if they're lucky. Yasaka Rakza 7 or Rakza 7 Soft is a great all-round rubber. Even a humble Mark V rubber is more than adequate at this stage.
    Hi AndyK,

    How long does a Rakza 7 last? which costs 53$ and how long does an 87$ Dignics 05 last?

    And how much money do you spend on rubbers until you get evidence that Butterfly's rubbers actually have no competition?

    The Rubber Dignics 05 is practically perfect, and it's perfect for a beginner to evolve. It is not difficult to use and encourages player development, the better he plays the more visible his performance will be.

    For a tenergy 05 in Bh in a beginner it is complicated to evolve but if a person has money why not a Dignics 09c or a Dignics 05?that in reality and if the accounts to money are done well, it even becomes cheap

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    #8

    The Rubber Dignics 05 is practically perfect, and it's perfect for a beginner to evolve.

    That is absolutely the most hilarious sentence I have heard uttered in hte last two days. D05 suitable for a USATT 800ish level of player?

    Not saying it is mission impossible, but in the early days before one gets foundations, a faster blade and quicker rebounding rubber will allow a player to make a medium shot with only a little effort and a 1/4 jerky stroke... that becomes a habit and then it is almost too late to retrain the mind.

    If there is profesional help all along the way, one can get there with the setup you champion, but that is rarely the case for our average fanboy BTY post from the protytypical intermediate player whose class in larger number data show to be intermediate basement level. Hey, everyone starts somewhere, so nothing bad on that, just that so many identify as intermediate when they are only intermediate on a very low end level. These rocketship setups are typically not gunna be the most beneficial to a developing player in the early years.

    I would not recommend rocket gear to a newer player, unless it is the thing that makes it easy to do th tasks they do... if it is whack the ball close to table and forget about the kind of impact for spin, then sure. Otherwise, there is other gear much more suitable that will give a newer player b etter chances to grow.

    I have to say this about myself, I played for 10 yrs and made a level a little short of USATT 2000... and all along, I still had (and still have) some flaws with ball striking. I had to use softer rubbers for a couple years to develop a better and deeper penetration into the topsheet and sponge at impact... then used a medium 47 degree rubber (MX-K) then a 51 now (Etika) and I can say now my imact is a lot more suited for a firmer sponge.

    The point being is everyone is not immediately ready to use rocket gear well enough to make it worth it.

    But what the heck, it is dude's own money, sometimes a dude gotta toss money away like pissing on the grass in order to learn for one self how things work..
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ADurao
    Hi AndyK,

    How long does a Rakza 7 last? which costs 53$ and how long does an 87$ Dignics 05 last?

    And how much money do you spend on rubbers until you get evidence that Butterfly's rubbers actually have no competition?

    The Rubber Dignics 05 is practically perfect, and it's perfect for a beginner to evolve. It is not difficult to use and encourages player development, the better he plays the more visible his performance will be.

    For a tenergy 05 in Bh in a beginner it is complicated to evolve but if a person has money why not a Dignics 09c or a Dignics 05?that in reality and if the accounts to money are done well, it even becomes cheap

    Slightly off on the arithmetic there, based on my experience. My retailer of choice, Table Tennis 11, sells Rakza 7 rubbers for $42.43 with a 4th rubber free if three are purchased, making the cost of each rubber $31.82 with no tax for me in the US. And the four rubbers should last him 18-24 months if he cleans them regularly ,unless he's playing 5 hours a day.
    https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/yasaka-rakza-7

    Echoing Der Echte's sentiment, I definitely do not recommend buying Dignics or Tenergy for beginners. That's like a 16 year old intern sporting a Rolex watch and Ferragamo shoes at his first Wall Street internship...

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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte
    That is absolutely the most hilarious sentence I have heard uttered in hte last two days. D05 suitable for a USATT 800ish level of player?

    Not saying it is mission impossible, but in the early days before one gets foundations, a faster blade and quicker rebounding rubber will allow a player to make a medium shot with only a little effort and a 1/4 jerky stroke... that becomes a habit and then it is almost too late to retrain the mind.

    If there is profesional help all along the way, one can get there with the setup you champion, but that is rarely the case for our average fanboy BTY post from the protytypical intermediate player whose class in larger number data show to be intermediate basement level. Hey, everyone starts somewhere, so nothing bad on that, just that so many identify as intermediate when they are only intermediate on a very low end level. These rocketship setups are typically not gunna be the most beneficial to a developing player in the early years.

    I would not recommend rocket gear to a newer player, unless it is the thing that makes it easy to do th tasks they do... if it is whack the ball close to table and forget about the kind of impact for spin, then sure. Otherwise, there is other gear much more suitable that will give a newer player b etter chances to grow.

    I have to say this about myself, I played for 10 yrs and made a level a little short of USATT 2000... and all along, I still had (and still have) some flaws with ball striking. I had to use softer rubbers for a couple years to develop a better and deeper penetration into the topsheet and sponge at impact... then used a medium 47 degree rubber (MX-K) then a 51 now (Etika) and I can say now my imact is a lot more suited for a firmer sponge.

    The point being is everyone is not immediately ready to use rocket gear well enough to make it worth it.

    But what the heck, it is dude's own money, sometimes a dude gotta toss money away like pissing on the grass in order to learn for one self how things work..
    I must have explained myself wrong, when I wrote beginner I didn't mean like a kid starting out. For that I even recommend Joola all 4 you! For beginners but with some practice I still think that Dignics 05 is not an impediment to play, on the contrary it is a rubber that makes you want to take advantage of it and evolve. If you play slowly the ball goes slow, if you play hard the ball goes fast. Unlike Tenergy 05, which I only recommend for players with a lot of practice. I have 4 blades with Dignics 05 on 2 sides and when I lend it to friends who don't know how to play they react very well. But these are opinions, without creating conflictsYou can make a funny test, train a person 1 year to play and evolve with the markv and another person with the dignics 05, at the end of that year put the 2 to play against each other. They have to have a similar level.
    Last edited by ADurao; 10-22-2021 at 04:51 AM.

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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyK

    Slightly off on the arithmetic there, based on my experience. My retailer of choice, Table Tennis 11, sells Rakza 7 rubbers for $42.43 with a 4th rubber free if three are purchased, making the cost of each rubber $31.82 with no tax for me in the US. And the four rubbers should last him 18-24 months if he cleans them regularly ,unless he's playing 5 hours a day.
    https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/yasaka-rakza-7

    Echoing Der Echte's sentiment, I definitely do not recommend buying Dignics or Tenergy for beginners. That's like a 16 year old intern sporting a Rolex watch and Ferragamo shoes at his first Wall Street internship...

    It's a point of view, I don't actually buy material over the Internet! If so, it's actually cheap. Although buying 4 rubbers is an investment to stick with that rubber for a long time not to lose the money. Especially for use in FH. The good thing about this sport is that people think differently and in the end nobody is completely right or completely wrong. what matters is to give the opinion amicably!

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    #12
    ADuaro,

    I did acknowledge that it could be a valid way, since there is no single correct answer in table tennis. I am also of the mind like you that the way of the pundit is not the only way by default, That is certainly true.

    However, many successful players and coaches will clearly articulate the things I said about certain quick rebounding equipment being a detriment to development for the reasons that were already well articulated. Carl is of this mind too, it took me a while to get to a similar inclination.

    If someone can present a case well articulated and logical, it is worth looking at.

    I have seen firsthand some successful coaches recommend things by default that would make a pundit coach eyes bug out and throw a fit... my coach in Korea inisisted all her new players start out with a BTY Schlager Carbon and a couple of early gen mid firm low throw control oriented offensive rubbers (maybe a little firmer than Rosnea and some faster).

    On the face, it would seem a rediculous setup to begin with... but what the old school Koreans emphasize is open bat solid impact much more hit than spin impact play close to table develop footwork to use the FH to the max. Most begginning players there sign up for 2x a week 20 minute multiball lessons with coach (who is often an ex-pro) and get real good real fast at close to teh table bang the ball back and forth a gazillion times.

    After 3 months, many of her new players could bang it back and forth with coach or other similar FH consistent hitting player 100-500x nearly hugging the endline. I cannot and will not do 10 hits like that in a row, I do not use the FH hit a whole lot in m playing style. The equipment recommended by my coach it turns out, makes it MUCH easier to do that shot (fast, low spin FH close to the table). So, it turns out there is a very good reason to use this kind of gear... also later, it has power away from table and the old school coaches will not care if you do not learn any significant spin even in Div 1 regional.

    As a recreational player just arriving in Korea, I had the best BH topspin vs underspin in the city... that is how little they valued the BH topspin. I value it a lot. She developed players her way and it works for her vision. I develop players using my vision and it works. it takes holistic understanding to do things well and get other adults to understand.

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    #13

    I agree with Andy's recommendation for something along the lines of Rakza 7.

    What others have said about different coaching strategies and so on is perfectly valid but, in the absence of any information along those lines, a proven rubber like Rakza 7 seems a sensible recommendation. Something like a Xiom Vega Japan could also be a good option depending on preferences for a slightly harder/softer feel.

    Alternatively, if the OP would like to try a Chinese rubber, then DHS Hurricane Neo 3 (the cheap version) would also be suitable. I'm sure there are other good options in the Chinese-style category, I just don't know enough about the category to make any other recommendation.

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ADurao
    And how much money do you spend on rubbers until you get evidence that Butterfly's rubbers actually have no competition?
    Hi ADurao,
    I'm glad to hear that you've found Butterfly rubbers such a good fit for your game. 👍
    That said, I don't think I can agree with your assessment of the competition - or 'lack thereof' as you seem to perceive it. Some of us actually prefer other rubbers - and not just for cost reasons. True story!


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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte
    ADuaro,

    I did acknowledge that it could be a valid way, since there is no single correct answer in table tennis. I am also of the mind like you that the way of the pundit is not the only way by default, That is certainly true.

    However, many successful players and coaches will clearly articulate the things I said about certain quick rebounding equipment being a detriment to development for the reasons that were already well articulated. Carl is of this mind too, it took me a while to get to a similar inclination.

    If someone can present a case well articulated and logical, it is worth looking at.

    I have seen firsthand some successful coaches recommend things by default that would make a pundit coach eyes bug out and throw a fit... my coach in Korea inisisted all her new players start out with a BTY Schlager Carbon and a couple of early gen mid firm low throw control oriented offensive rubbers (maybe a little firmer than Rosnea and some faster).

    On the face, it would seem a rediculous setup to begin with... but what the old school Koreans emphasize is open bat solid impact much more hit than spin impact play close to table develop footwork to use the FH to the max. Most begginning players there sign up for 2x a week 20 minute multiball lessons with coach (who is often an ex-pro) and get real good real fast at close to teh table bang the ball back and forth a gazillion times.

    After 3 months, many of her new players could bang it back and forth with coach or other similar FH consistent hitting player 100-500x nearly hugging the endline. I cannot and will not do 10 hits like that in a row, I do not use the FH hit a whole lot in m playing style. The equipment recommended by my coach it turns out, makes it MUCH easier to do that shot (fast, low spin FH close to the table). So, it turns out there is a very good reason to use this kind of gear... also later, it has power away from table and the old school coaches will not care if you do not learn any significant spin even in Div 1 regional.

    As a recreational player just arriving in Korea, I had the best BH topspin vs underspin in the city... that is how little they valued the BH topspin. I value it a lot. She developed players her way and it works for her vision. I develop players using my vision and it works. it takes holistic understanding to do things well and get other adults to understand.
    I really liked your testimony, it's really a charm to know other game philosophies. I'm 46 years old and play table tennis for 30 years, with some stops and starts in between. Today with 2 daughters and a wife at home I need table tennis so I don't hear them at home hahahahahaha It's my therapy. 10 years ago I took classes with the Portugal coach and he told me the better your material, the greater your capacity for evolution. He recommended me Viscaria, who I still adore today, and Rozena. I quickly moved to tenergy 05 because I already had a lot of experience, I felt difficulties at BH but I overcame. Today this coach recommends Dignics 05 to anyone who can, he is a reference here in Portugal because he is the coach of national teams. The reality is that dignics adapts well to what you do, I wish you had the opportunity to play this rubber for a week. Don't trust too many reviews, check one by Timo Boll with Dan. And check out Dima Ovtacharov's about Dignics 09c vs Tenergy 05. What Dima says about 09c fits into 05. Basically, he tells dignics if you do little, the rubber do little, if you do a lot, rubber does a lot. Unlike Tenergy 05 which is exactly the opposite. Note that my table tennis product brand that I love the most is Yasaka, but I was given over to some Butterfly products.

    big hug here from Portugal
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    Last edited by ADurao; 10-22-2021 at 04:19 PM.

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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Ksh
    May I know some fh rubber (butterfly) recommendations for ovtcharov innerforce alc please? I’m more like a basic/pre intermediate player. I’ve plan to use rozena on bh and looking for fh. Feel free to suggest everyone!!

    To make it simple, why don't you also use rozena for the forehand side?

    Keep practicing up to the point there's a need for setup adjustment, mostly going for a harder rubber on the forehand side first, then followed by backhand.


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    #17

    Hi,

    My 2 cents - If you are a Butterfly fan-boy, don't mind shelling-out the cash, then I'd say Rozena .. Not exactly an entry-level - intermediate rubber, but it should be okay.. Plus, it's pretty durable..

    However, there're other cheaper, yet perhaps, equally good or even better options for a player of your level ..Check out ..
    • Xiom Vega Europe
    • Yasaka Rakza or Rakza Soft
    • Tibhar 5Q
    • TSP Agrit

    Cheaper Chinese-make rubbers (You may face quality & durability issues.)
    • Palio AK-47 Blue or Yellow
    • Friendship Focus III Snipe
    • Sanwei T88-III


    It may also be worth looking at some Chinese Tacky (or semi-tacky) rubbers... I truly believe that they help stroke-development.. Yes, they're demanding, and would be the hard-way to develop strokes, but they do good, in the long run .. I'd recommend something like DHS Hurricane 3 Neo (38° - 40°), or Friendship Transcend, Yinhe Mercury III

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