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    #1

    Switch from inverted rubber to SP in BH

    which short pips u require little adjustment time to switch smoothly from a regular rubber?

    my playing style with bra is mainly blocking, pushing, sometimes opening

    in serve reception I try to avoid my backhand because I don't have a lot of feeling with it.

    which studs do you recommend?

    I had read that spinlord waran and TSP spectol out are popular pips.

  2. Short_Pimple is offline
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    #2
    For a first try Friendship 802-40. It's cheap, spinny and has a good controll.

    Coming from inverted, try a thick sponge 2.0 or more.

    If you find yourself comfortable with it, you can go either way. More deception with a less spinny pip or faster with a Tensor Pip.

    Waran and Spectol are popular, but both are quite extrem in their behavior. Spectol is hard and has decent effect on the opponent, Waran is really fast and capable of good spin. If it has to be one of those two, take waran. The transition from inverted is easier.

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  3. Lula is offline
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    #3
    Why do you want to try short pimples? I think it will help your receiving game and it will proably be easier to open against backspin but will have less quality. It is going to be easier to smash but blocking is in my opinion much easier with backside. Maybe could win a bit on effect from the short pimple block.

    802-40 is good but i find it pretty hard aswell.

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    #4
    Lula is right, as always haha.

    On the passive side, you won't get any benefits in the blocking and pushing department, openers are debatable.

    If you like risk and smash at the first opportunity, then yes, short pips are very satisfying.

    802-40 was one of my favorites, but very hard (relatively) and not inverted like at all.

    Victas 102 and Blowfish are good transitions. If you like TSP, the Spinpips series are more spin oriented than Spectols.
    Last edited by lasta; 10-31-2021 at 11:17 AM.

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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula
    Why do you want to try short pimples? I think it will help your receiving game and it will proably be easier to open against backspin but will have less quality. It is going to be easier to smash but blocking is in my opinion much easier with backside. Maybe could win a bit on effect from the short pimple block.

    802-40 is good but i find it pretty hard aswell.

    I want to switch because i have no feeling in BH spin. I the rally i always play close to the table and just hit with BH.

    If they serve long in my backhand i always have troubels with it.

    I hope that short pips Will help me in my game.


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    #6
    I search for a short pip that just can do everything do ‘oké’ i mostely play FH in the game.

    but i cant avoid my backhand every point 😅

  7. Lula is offline
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by CamperBel

    I want to switch because i have no feeling in BH spin. I the rally i always play close to the table and just hit with BH.

    If they serve long in my backhand i always have troubels with it.

    I hope that short pips Will help me in my game.

    Try it and se how you like it! Staying close is good. How long have you played tabletennis? I think everyone have problem with spin in the beginning.


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    #8
    Moristo SP in 1.8 sponge is the pips you want. You can play them exactly like inverted but with less quality, and it's much more forgiving of bad contacts when you use it to spin. Landing an okay shot on the table 80% of the time wins a lot more points than making a very good shot 20% of the time.

    They are terrible for pushing unless you have a stupid opponent who pushes back a pips push. But they are excellent for opening vs backspin and against short serves. Blocking is fine. Where you may have trouble is against long dead serves to your backhand. If you have the mobility the best answer for those is to pivot and play a forehand.

    Using short pips this way to cover a weakness works. You can transition in only a few weeks. And it's a very satisfying, fun way to play. But you will not be using the short pips to their potential if you spin with them. At some point you may want to learn to hit properly flat with the pips. That could take some years.

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula

    Try it and se how you like it! Staying close is good. How long have you played tabletennis? I think everyone have problem with spin in the beginning.

    I play now for 10 years and i am a B player in Belgium.


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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Brs
    Moristo SP in 1.8 sponge is the pips you want. You can play them exactly like inverted but with less quality, and it's much more forgiving of bad contacts when you use it to spin. Landing an okay shot on the table 80% of the time wins a lot more points than making a very good shot 20% of the time.

    They are terrible for pushing unless you have a stupid opponent who pushes back a pips push. But they are excellent for opening vs backspin and against short serves. Blocking is fine. Where you may have trouble is against long dead serves to your backhand. If you have the mobility the best answer for those is to pivot and play a forehand.

    Using short pips this way to cover a weakness works. You can transition in only a few weeks. And it's a very satisfying, fun way to play. But you will not be using the short pips to their potential if you spin with them. At some point you may want to learn to hit properly flat with the pips. That could take some years.
    Thx for the answer. I give it a try! You played with a lot of different short pips?

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    #11
    I've been first playing the Nittaku Moristo SP (max. thickness) on the backhand, and then the Yinhe Uranus Pro (medium sponge, max thickness), for more than a year. On the forehand I play inverted Yinhe Moon or Nittaku FastArc G-1.

    I did OK with the Yinhe Uranus Pro on the backhand, and a good review is on YouTube:
    https://youtu.be/GwW4orPAM-Y (may have to switch on Close Captioning)

    I switched back to inverted backhand a couple of weeks ago. Blocking, flat hitting, and rolling with the pips was OK, and pushing resulted in weak underspin as others have noticed. Serves were surprisingly effective with the pips, and serve return was easier than with inverted.

    However, I had a hard time in tournaments against other pips players (short or long), especially dead balls. I would have to get to the ball fast and hit a precise flat hit, no help from top spin with the pips.

    So I think the Uranus Pro is a good short pips rubber to try (at << $20 with shipping) and it is fun to play:
    http://www.princett.com/EN/USD/produ...ubber-391.html

    Start with the medium sponge, the soft sponge is more jumpy and less easy to control especially with a fast racket. Most pips players recommend a 7-ply racket like the Stiga Clipper variety (or e.g. Yinhe Purple Dragon 437). Carbon rackets worked for me too (like Yinhe T7S) or maybe Sanwei Fextra 7 ply. Yinhe Pro 5W works well too (Walnut top, 5-ply).

    I think by playing short pips my backhand got a lot stronger especially for hitting. Now with inverted this works equally well, plus inverted has the safety net of harder push or higher arc over the net due to top spin.

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    #12
    What is the effect of the diffrence pimple construction?

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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula
    Why do you want to try short pimples? I think it will help your receiving game and it will proably be easier to open against backspin but will have less quality. It is going to be easier to smash but blocking is in my opinion much easier with backside. Maybe could win a bit on effect from the short pimple block.

    802-40 is good but i find it pretty hard aswell.
    I have been able to get 802-40 with 35 degree sponge. I don't know what scale that was using. I thought that was a soft sponge. I bought the 802-40 years ago from zeropong but they nolonger sell it.

    One of my practice partners switched from inverted to 802-40 on his BH. He rolls balls when he needs to but most of the time he flat hits low over the net and deep. The balls tend to just skid off the table. He is very accurate at hitting white lines.

    I prefer 802-40 1.8mm for my BH.

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    I have been able to get 802-40 with 35 degree sponge. I don't know what scale that was using. I thought that was a soft sponge. I bought the 802-40 years ago from zeropong but they nolonger sell it.

    One of my practice partners switched from inverted to 802-40 on his BH. He rolls balls when he needs to but most of the time he flat hits low over the net and deep. The balls tend to just skid off the table. He is very accurate at hitting white lines.

    I prefer 802-40 1.8mm for my BH.

    I find it difficult to understand this. I have used 802-40 that i have bought from japsko and tt11, that is suppose to have a 35 degree sponge. I find them very hard. Then i bought two 802-40 from our chinese coach. He got them from some pro friend in China. Also 35 degree and they were much softer. Different scales? i agree that the rubber is very good, but big difference between these too. For just blocking i think the hard one i used was easier but much easier to smash back everything with the softer one i tried.


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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula

    I find it difficult to understand this. I have used 802-40 that i have bought from japsko and tt11, that is suppose to have a 35 degree sponge. I find them very hard. Then i bought two 802-40 from our chinese coach. He got them from some pro friend in China. Also 35 degree and they were much softer. Different scales? i agree that the rubber is very good, but big difference between these too. For just blocking i think the hard one i used was easier but much easier to smash back everything with the softer one i tried.

    Friendship legacy rubbers' QC have gone a long way down nowadays. FYI, I've used up more than 12 sheets of 802-40, none were identical. Sometimes the 38 degree sponge is harder than the ones labelled 42...

    In any case, even the 35 is is "hard" compared to most ESN stuff, the topsheet is to blame. Not a bad thing mind you. Some were harder than expected, some were slower than expected, but all playable.


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    #16
    What is the difffence between Nittaku moritso SP AX and Waran Spinlord?

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by CamperBel
    What is the difffence between Nittaku moritso SP AX and Waran Spinlord?

    I can't tell you about waran, but the moristo ax is very different from the regular moristo. Moristo ax has the pimples aligned horizontally and regular moristo are vertically. That makes the ax version even easier to spin with, but harder to hit with. plain moristo can be used effectively in a more normal short pip hitting style so i prefer it over ax. But someone else could feel the opposite.


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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Brs

    I can't tell you about waran, but the moristo ax is very different from the regular moristo. Moristo ax has the pimples aligned horizontally and regular moristo are vertically. That makes the ax version even easier to spin with, but harder to hit with. plain moristo can be used effectively in a more normal short pip hitting style so i prefer it over ax. But someone else could feel the opposite.

    The Spinlord Waran are to horizontally


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    #19
    I suggest using any 'classic' short pips in 1.8mm thickness (if you prefer to play close to table hitting and blocking off the bounce) or 2.0mm (if you have some tendency to go back one step behind doing some rallies)

    By 'classic' means some short pips that has been used by most short pips backhand user known, such as :

    1. Stiga Clippa 1.8mm/2.0mm (proven to be the most versatile for backhand usage. Enough spin, good speed, pretty stable in blocks, and some 'sink effect' due to opponent's misreading)

    2. 802-40 (get the 35 degree hardness, or anything the softest one available. Definitely more spin than Clippa, less 'sink effect')

    3. Butterfly Challenger Attack 1.9mm (good control, 'sink effect' is between Clippa and 802-40, but slower than Clippa on agressive/active strokes. Better control at blocking, some 'float' might occured while blocking)

    4. Nittaku Moristo SP 1.8mm/2.0mm (feels like the softer version of Clippa, and some more improvement. Greater 'sink effect' yet still generate approx. the same level of spin)

    5. TSP spectol 1.8mm/2.0mm (a bit more 'sink effect' compared to the first 4, less sensitive to spin. Of course, less spin. Mostly preferred for pure drive/flat hit style)

    Some 'new generation' short pips which I've tried personally, if you prefer to use something 'funky', and of course needs some adjustments and intensive trainings to maximize the potential if coming from inverted :

    6. Yinhe Uranus Poly 2.0mm (good spin to keep the ball safely into the table, good control in drive/flat hit. Not too fast for backhand, very stable in blocking and sometimes giving uncomfortable balls due to hard topsheet and medium sponge hardness. Almost as stable as most short pips like Clippa, Challenger Attack, etc.)

    7. Spinlord Waran 1.8mm (pretty unique. Good spin generation, one can even do mid-distance looping instead of hitting, yet not too sensitive to spin, able to generate 'sink effect' in drive/flat hit. Blocks produce some 'float', need to do intensive adjustments in blocks. Good speed, and some clicking sound so-called 'speed glue effect')

    8. Yinhe Uranus Pro soft 1.8mm (almost identical in playing characteristics compared to Spinlord Waran, with a little bit softer and more porous sponge, with cheaper price. The only downside is pretty much the same, need to do intensive adjustments in blocks, even more than Waran, due to the sponge characteristics. When you do, it rewards a big time; fast at agressive strokes, yet somehow 'float' a lot in blocking, especially when using 7 ply allwood blades. Currently settling with this one, the soft sponge really accommodate my playstyle, some backhand loops and drives/flat hits from mid-distance. Pushes can be deceptive, flicks, 3rd ball drive, and inverted-like opening loops close to table are pretty much comfortable, yet somehow feels troublesome for most opponents. Some national-level players in here are pretty interested in Uranus Pro. One of our Paralympic coach, surprisingly, is currently using it. When you spin with it, it spins well. When you hit, it sinks pretty good with not too much effort)

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