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    #1

    i need explanation

    i used a dhs pg5 with rakza 7 and is currently playing with a tibhar stratus power wood with palio ak47. when i picked up the pg5 again, all my shots went flying off the table, even with a soft hit. is this the high throw of rakza or carbon blade just tends to be more bouncy?

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    #2
    Quote Originally Posted by yousuhika
    i used a dhs pg5 with rakza 7 and is currently playing with a tibhar stratus power wood with palio ak47. when i picked up the pg5 again, all my shots went flying off the table, even with a soft hit. is this the high throw of rakza or carbon blade just tends to be more bouncy?
    I have the same experience with 5+2 carbon blade too. My blade in question is the DHS Long V. When paired with thickest tensor rubber, the control element suffers. This is why I do not like tensor rubber. They are not linear. These rubber can be awesome at faraway table looping and counter looping but they terribly sucks at close to table aka near net play. A little touch and the ball will fly off the table.

    I don't think it is the high throw of the rubber but rather the bouncy nature of the thick power or spring sponge underneath. This coupled with a stiffer blade such as Long V or PG5, you get a double whammy in terms of loss i.e., reduction in control or touch-play.

    These type of set-up i.e., carbon blade with thick sponge tensor rubber would suit those whose play style consist of staying far away from the table and he power loops or counter-loops every ball,


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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo
    I have the same experience with 5+2 carbon blade too. My blade in question is the DHS Long V. When paired with thickest tensor rubber, the control element suffers. This is why I do not like tensor rubber. They are not linear. These rubber can be awesome at faraway table looping and counter looping but they terribly sucks at close to table aka near net play. A little touch and the ball will fly off the table.

    I don't think it is the high throw of the rubber but rather the bouncy nature of the thick power or spring sponge underneath. This coupled with a stiffer blade such as Long V or PG5, you get a double whammy in terms of loss i.e., reduction in control or touch-play.

    These type of set-up i.e., carbon blade with thick sponge tensor rubber would suit those whose play style consist of staying far away from the table and he power loops or counter-loops every ball,

    what will happen if i put the rakza on my tibhar then?


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    #4
    Show us a 2 minute vid of you hitting with either bat and we can have a better basis for our comments.

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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte
    Show us a 2 minute vid of you hitting with either bat and we can have a better basis for our comments.

    Can this just be the default answer for everyone these days? lol.

    I know technology in some parts of the world are still behind others, but if you can access this forum, there's a good chance you can record a 2 minute clip and upload it!

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  6. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by NDH

    Can this just be the default answer for everyone these days? lol.

    I know technology in some parts of the world are still behind others, but if you can access this forum, there's a good chance you can record a 2 minute clip and upload it!

    Don't even need 2 min. 15-30 seconds usually is enough for me to see what is going on with someone. 2-4 FH strokes, 2-4 BH strokes is enough unless they are also willing to show some serve and receive and point construction in match play.

    And, @Yousuhika: there could be lots and lots of reasons for you not being able to control the PG5/Rakza7 combination.

    1) It could be too fast for you.
    2) You may not have the technique to control the racket.
    3) How you contact the ball may be not precise enough.
    4) You may simply be used to a racket much slower and therefore not be used to the faster setup.
    5) The transition from rubbers with less catapult to rubbers with more catapult requires a different way of contacting the ball, you could be contacting the ball the way you should for the AK47 rubbers and not the way you should for the Rakza rubbers.
    6) Stratus Power Wood has a Limba-Limba top two plies which makes it soft and very easy to control and generate spin, I believe PG5 has Koto top ply and Carbon (is that right, anyone) which would make it so you need a much more precise contact for getting the rubber to grab and spin the ball.

    I could list about 40 more things that could be going on. But the simple answer is: if you are spraying the ball all over the place with one setup and not able to control it, but you are competent with the other setup: STOP BEING AN EQUIPMENT JUNKIE AND USE THE SETUP THAT WORKS FOR YOU: 99.8% of TT is training and practice, 0.2 is equipment. Train and practice using the equipment that works for you.

    When you are good enough you will be able to beat your friends using a block of wood as a TT racket (with no rubbers) because TT is mostly technique.

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    #7
    i don’t see the need to record a video when i feel like this can be answered through “knowledge?” i’m doing the same stroke pattern and strength for both blades. however the pg5 flies out instead. just wanna know if it would be the same thing if i put the rakza on the tibhar since it’s not a carbon blade, if that plays a part.

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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by yousuhika
    i used a dhs pg5 with rakza 7 and is currently playing with a tibhar stratus power wood with palio ak47. when i picked up the pg5 again, all my shots went flying off the table, even with a soft hit. is this the high throw of rakza or carbon blade just tends to be more bouncy?
    Re the blades:
    It's not necessarily that carbon blades are more bouncy/powerful than all-wood blades. They often are, but it's not always the case and there are some very powerful all-wood blades around. I think the issue is that all-wood blades usually offer a greater sense of touch/feel that enables most people to better moderate their contact (ie. power and angle of contact) with the ball - thus resulting in more controlled shots. In short, carbon blades usually have less 'feel' than all-wood blades.

    Re the rubbers:
    I haven't played with AK47 so can't comment directly, but assuming the typical difference between Chinese-style rubbers and Euro/Jap-style rubbers then Rakza 7 probably is at least a bit bouncier than AK47.

    In your setup, therefore, you're comparing a lower-feel blade with a comparatively bouncier rubber (ie. DHS PG5 + Rakza 7) against a higher-feel blade with a comparatively less bouncy rubber (ie. Tibhar SPW + AK47). It seems intuitive that it would take you a few sessions to adjust from the one setup to the other

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  9. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by yousuhika
    i don’t see the need to record a video when i feel like this can be answered through “knowledge?” i’m doing the same stroke pattern and strength for both blades. however the pg5 flies out instead. just wanna know if it would be the same thing if i put the rakza on the tibhar since it’s not a carbon blade, if that plays a part.
    Read what I wrote. Because you are asking a simple question that could have hundreds of answers depending on what you are actually doing, it cannot actually be answered without seeing what you are doing.

    And the way to test whether the R7 will work on your TSPW is to put them on there and see.

    However, if you played with the PG5/R7 for 3-6 weeks without using the other setup, you would start getting the touch of how to use the PG5/R7 setup. Then if you switched to the TSPW/AK47 setup, you might be wondering why you were having to swing so much harder to get the ball over the net at the pace you wanted.

    So.....some of what you are experiencing likely has to do with what you are used to. And some of it has to do with the precision of your contact.

    Someone who has high level technique and is used to playing with both Euro/Japanese catapult rubbers and less catapult Chinese rubbers should be able to switch from setup to setup with only a small adjustment period of 3-6 min. Someone with mid level technique could take weeks to get used to equipment changes like the one you are describing where you change both blade and rubbers.
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  10. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #10
    So, at least some of the answer is, when you are at a higher skill level, what you are describing will not happen.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
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    #11
    As Carl mentioned, there could be many reasons that contribute to the ball oversailing the table with the PG5 combo.

    Similar blades with a different composition such as the Nittaku Acoustic all wood and Nittaku Acoustic inner carbon make a good comparison of how the carbon can change the blades characteristics.
    What I found was that the inner carbon version played longer than the all wood version by between 300mm to 450mm. this is just my observation from playing against a robot (with both blades with the same rubbers on them), playing a standard FH topspin. I haven't tried the Acoustic outer, but logic would say that this blade is likely to play longer than the inner version. by how much, I'm not sure.
    Carbon layers do make a difference, but you also have to take into account the blades composition as well, different veneers, order they are placed, thickness of veneers and so on.
    Stiga Def Pro has carbon layers but is not a fast blade be any means!!!

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    #12
    When you hit a forehand and your ball always land off the table = close the angle of your bat + watch your distance between you and your table side (maybe you are too close) + keep your body/legs low.
    If after this adjustment it doesn't work it means the blade is too fast for you.
    Simple.

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    #13
    It's because you unintentionally changed your technique to use the TSPW/AK47 setup. If you play for a few days with the PG5 (at your 30 min/day rate) then you will unknowingly adjust your technique back to the PG5/Rakza setup and the ball will hit the table about the same as when you used to play with that combination before.

    You think you have always had the exact same technique, force of swing, contact, etc, and the only thing that changed is the equipment. You are wrong. It's not the equipment, it's you. If you want to do a fun experiment, take your 30 minutes today and play 5 minutes PG5, 5 minutes TSPW, so that you change bats 5 times during the practice. Do you hit the table much with either setup?

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    #14
    thank you everyone for your reply. i have decided i will put rakza 7 on my TSPW and stick with it for as long as i can, hopefully without damaging my blade too much that i’ll have to change to a new one. my next problem will be gluing the rubber which i have struggled with even after many videos and even a few test of gluing done at home.

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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by yousuhika
    thank you everyone for your reply. i have decided i will put rakza 7 on my TSPW and stick with it for as long as i can, hopefully without damaging my blade too much that i’ll have to change to a new one. my next problem will be gluing the rubber which i have struggled with even after many videos and even a few test of gluing done at home.

    How hard could it be?


    Someone will come here very soon and recommend you to lick the cutting blade. Ignore him.


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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by yousuhika
    thank you everyone for your reply. i have decided i will put rakza 7 on my TSPW and stick with it for as long as i can, hopefully without damaging my blade too much that i’ll have to change to a new one. my next problem will be gluing the rubber which i have struggled with even after many videos and even a few test of gluing done at home.

    Upload a video of your gluing technique so we can see what's wrong. 😁

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by yousuhika
    i don’t see the need to record a video when i feel like this can be answered through “knowledge?” i’m doing the same stroke pattern and strength for both blades. however the pg5 flies out instead. just wanna know if it would be the same thing if i put the rakza on the tibhar since it’s not a carbon blade, if that plays a part.

    So, Carl has already covered most things here.

    But to re-iterate, generally speaking, people asking for help with this sort of thing are "lower level" players - Which covers a wide level of abilities.

    In the UK (and I'm sure it's similar all over the world), there is a very big difference between a lower level player who plays at home for fun, and a lower level player who is in a league.

    There are lots of "hobby" players, who might have a table at home, or play every now and then for fun, and are considering the "King of Table Tennis" amongst their friends - So much so, they actually believe they are pretty good.

    The minute this self declared "good" player plays a match against a "lower level" league player, the lower level league players wins by a big margin.

    Posting some really short clips on your technique will allow others to offer the best/most accurate advice, and you seem to be someone who is looking for good advice.

    You say you are doing the "same stroke", but that stroke might be absolutely awful, and simply changing a few things will improve it dramatically, whilst allowing you to use the equipment you want.

    So I'm not saying "post a video", to be difficult, or to laugh at you or anything negative like that.

    It's so I, Carl, and many others who have been playing for years and years can offer the best possible advice, without simply "guessing".

    For clarity, there are plenty of videos of myself, Carl, and many others online - So you can choose whether to ignore our advice, or go with it.

    I'd always be a little cautious about taking too much advice from someone online who has no record of their ability.

    I've seen a lot of entry level players give advice about various things (that is wrong), but said in a way that makes it seem like they are a seasoned veteran!

    Anyway, good luck!


  18. Der_Echte is offline
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by lasta

    How hard could it be?


    Someone will come here very soon and recommend you to lick the cutting blade. Ignore him.

    Obviously an uninformed lout.

    SEND OUT the Goon Squad on hiz azz. Lick. Lick.
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  19. Der_Echte is offline
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    #19
    OP doesn't want to upload a short clip so some experienced posters can have context to provide free advice... no problem. Keep doing what you are doing and enjoy ur life.

    I would say the situation with levels is EVEN MORE pronounced than NDH articulated. There are prolly 10-15 levels at just the newby level. Still, NDH highlighted what actually happens with expectations and reality... and the ensuing realization.
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    #20
    Agree. It's amazing to me how incredibly helpful the folks are on TTD. OP keeps posting questions, but most of them are essentially the same question, phrased differently, and we keep trying to help. In particular, UpSideDownCarl has provided so much clarity and great advice on a number of threads to someone who appears to be unwilling or unable to reciprocate adequately. So, all that advice doesn't appear to be getting through. I think OP has used up my very limited store of goodwill, so I'll be tuning OP out going forward.

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