Back to Forum
Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. Divyajeet is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 0 6
    Divyajeet's Avatar
    Divyajeet is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 6 0
    #1

    Long pips to Inverted rubber transition

    Hi,
    I'm an intermediate level player who has been playing with long pips since I can remember holding my first racket. My coach handed it to me and I have been sticking with it since 2007. However, I have recently been working on my backhand top spins, smashes, counter and blocking with an inverted rubber and I feel really confident with that too. I often flip my long pips whenever I have to attack with my BH and it is now a reflex. I am now thinking of switching to an inverted rubber on my BH and becoming a completely offensive player which is pretty different from my older chopping style that I am accustomed to, because of the long pips. Does this sound like a wise decision or should I stick to my Long pips and the playing style my coach decided for me when I was 12 years old? I do have a little trouble picking up really spinny serves with an inverted rubber, but I think I can work on it. Also, how long do ya'll think this transition might take?

  2. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 3,032 4,571
    T
    Tony's Table Tennis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 4,571 3,032

    User Info Menu


    Sep 2013
    South Africa
    4,571
    3,032
    8938
    Read 3 Reviews
    #2

    Hi there,
    welcome to the forum.

    If you want to have fun, of course change to anything you like.

    Difficult to past judgement without a video, but based on how you started with a coach, and how choppers does require a good form of footwork, I would also like to suggest:

    I think you do have some strengths in your current setup. So why don't you continue with the current setup and flip/twiddle your bat more?
    This allows you to defend and attack, giving you a wider variety.

    Another thing, if you are a chopper, you can also consider chopping with short pimples. This would also allow you to attack like an inverted if you are closer towards the table.

    If you have experience with flipping/twiddle and using inverted on your BH, I do feel your would learn inverted both sides pretty quickly too.

    The Following User Likes Tony's Table Tennis's Post:

    jammmail

    TTT

  3. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 3,032 4,571
    T
    Tony's Table Tennis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 4,571 3,032

    User Info Menu


    Sep 2013
    South Africa
    4,571
    3,032
    8938
    Read 3 Reviews
    #3
    Clearly the supposed pip experts has no clue about short pimple choppers in China.
    There is no such thing as medium pimple.
    you get short (out) and long pimples. medium would normally be a shorter longer, or longer short (out), but officially it is either short or long.


    Short pips chopping - there is no problem with that.
    No matter if you are from India or Africa, or where ever, the ball is the size shape and the game is the same fun (unless you have grudges like Carly)

    Most Chinese choppers learn chopping starting off with short pips. Carly will easily say those coaches has no clue on what is going on, but who are you going to listen to - Someone like Carly who has not posted his video, nor shared his coaching abilities/credentials and then goes on about ITTF and his hate of them and then any one (like me) who does not agree with his behavior, are labeled all kinds of nonsense.


    Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 06-14-2022 at 05:21 AM.
    TTT

  4. Lazer is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Elite TTD Member 496 1,130
    Lazer's Avatar
    Lazer is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Elite TTD Member 1,130 496

    User Info Menu

    #4
    Sure why not? I would get a second bat and dress it with inverted on both sides. Then you can switch back and forth. But remember if you compete, most players hate playing against long pips (at least where I’m at )
    and it could give you an advantage.

    Cheers
    L-zr
    Steal a little and they throw You in jail, Steal a lot and they make You King... (Dylan)

  5. Divyajeet is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 0 6
    Divyajeet's Avatar
    Divyajeet is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 6 0
    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    Hi there,
    welcome to the forum.

    If you want to have fun, of course change to anything you like.

    Difficult to past judgement without a video, but based on how you started with a coach, and how choppers does require a good form of footwork, I would also like to suggest:

    I think you do have some strengths in your current setup. So why don't you continue with the current setup and flip/twiddle your bat more?
    This allows you to defend and attack, giving you a wider variety.

    Another thing, if you are a chopper, you can also consider chopping with short pimples. This would also allow you to attack like an inverted if you are closer towards the table.

    If you have experience with flipping/twiddle and using inverted on your BH, I do feel your would learn inverted both sides pretty quickly too.

    Thank you for your reply. It has given me a lot of clarity with my decision.

    The game nowadays has become pretty fast and close to the table, with people looping a little less than they used to and going for speed more than spin. In such a scenario flipping becomes more about pre-shot instinct rather than a post-shot reflex, which is a bit of a disadvantage at the higher level. Sure I can beat ameteurs and low level intermediates with the range of shots I posses, but the higher ups with 3rd ball attack mindset become a challenge. I guess I will just work on my close to the table blocks for a while and improve form with my long pips.
    Short pips, however, are a No-No since I find them really difficult to control after using an OX long pips for as long as I can remember.
    All in all, your advice was helpful, thanks again. cheers!


  6. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 3,032 4,571
    T
    Tony's Table Tennis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 4,571 3,032

    User Info Menu


    Sep 2013
    South Africa
    4,571
    3,032
    8938
    Read 3 Reviews
    #6
    on Carly's Africa

    He thinks I coach in Africa only.

    Out of 8 new incomers to our team. 4 are pip players.
    The one in the middle in black and yellow is a short pip chopper - ranked number 6 in Taiwan in U15.
    Taiwan does know a thing or two in table tennis.




    The Following User Likes Tony's Table Tennis's Post:

    PingBirdPong

    TTT

  7. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 3,032 4,571
    T
    Tony's Table Tennis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 4,571 3,032

    User Info Menu


    Sep 2013
    South Africa
    4,571
    3,032
    8938
    Read 3 Reviews
    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Divyajeet

    Thank you for your reply. It has given me a lot of clarity with my decision.

    The game nowadays has become pretty fast and close to the table, with people looping a little less than they used to and going for speed more than spin. In such a scenario flipping becomes more about pre-shot instinct rather than a post-shot reflex, which is a bit of a disadvantage at the higher level. Sure I can beat ameteurs and low level intermediates with the range of shots I posses, but the higher ups with 3rd ball attack mindset become a challenge. I guess I will just work on my close to the table blocks for a while and improve form with my long pips.
    Short pips, however, are a No-No since I find them really difficult to control after using an OX long pips for as long as I can remember.
    All in all, your advice was helpful, thanks again. cheers!

    Do you play close to the table?

    For short pips that you tried, what was the sponge thickness?
    I find SP ox a lot easier to control than LP ox for example.

    TTT

  8. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 3,032 4,571
    T
    Tony's Table Tennis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 4,571 3,032

    User Info Menu


    Sep 2013
    South Africa
    4,571
    3,032
    8938
    Read 3 Reviews
    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    Sure why not? I would get a second bat and dress it with inverted on both sides. Then you can switch back and forth. But remember if you compete, most players hate playing against long pips (at least where I’m at )
    and it could give you an advantage.

    Cheers
    L-zr

    agree, no harm in trying out.
    i'm sure you livelihood isn't depending on the points you score on the table, so experience and have some fun.

    TTT

  9. Divyajeet is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 0 6
    Divyajeet's Avatar
    Divyajeet is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 6 0
    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Carly Siman
    Divyajeet;371093
    Hi,
    I'm an intermediate level player who has been playing with long pips since I can remember holding my first racket. My coach handed it to me and I have been sticking with it since 2007. However, I have recently been working on my backhand top spins, smashes, counter and blocking with an inverted rubber and I feel really confident with that too. I often flip my long pips whenever I have to attack with my BH and it is now a reflex. I am now thinking of switching to an inverted rubber on my BH and becoming a completely offensive player which is pretty different from my older chopping style that I am accustomed to, because of the long pips. Does this sound like a wise decision or should I stick to my Long pips and the playing style my coach decided for me when I was 12 years old? I do have a little trouble picking up really spinny serves with an inverted rubber, but I think I can work on it. Also, how long do ya'll think this transition might take?



    There are generally 3 types of long pips players
    1. Close to the blockers who use frictionless type long pips such as Tibhar Grass DTec / GD Dragon Talon etc
    2. Away from the table choppers who use rubbers like Feint Long 3
    3. All round players who an all around game of chopping , blocking, hitting , even lobbing , using medium pips rubber like Yinhe 955, Nittaku Screw etc

    Which type are you (or wanna be) ?
    Are you a natural chopper on your backhand ? (if you are, this whole thread is sort of waste of time LOL)
    All loopers secretly fantasize of being the GOAT Joo Sehyuk
    And yes there are a few choppers who want to be Ma Long for all the wrong reasons (usually peer pressure & fear of ridicule)

    Are you a serious competitive player or playing for fun ( & exercise) ? Every amateur player says they are competitive as long as they are winning or improving but starts using disclaimers like " I am only playing for fun & exercise " if they continue to stay at one level & never improve (in most cases they are choosing wrong rubbers & blades) . Which one are you ?

    You cannot have it all . You cannot be Waldner & Joo Sehyuk & Jiang Jiliang all at the same time. ( I am not sure you are male or female, so substitute accordingly if you are a female).. Regardless I have never heard of chopper (male or female) in the past 23 years except may be Ravichandran in
    India . (I am aware of the the fact that lots of Indian female top players use at the table blocking type frictionless type LPs).
    The concept of the now extinct species Indian chopper is almost as hilarious as an African (-born) chopper.
    IMO you should stick to your current setup if you are mostly a chopper but you can try medium pips with thick sponge if you want to play an all around game.You can always twiddle if you want to use your inverted on your backhand in either case.
    There may be a good reason why your coach put you on long pips

    I do not know if you are using OX LPS or LPs with sponge. If you are not using OX that may be a huge problem if you are an intermediate player as you say. LP with sponge is only good if you are only playing against Pros or high level amateurs. But if you are using LP with sponge (even thinnest) , it is a huge liability because you just don't get much (back)spin reversal or variations (both built into the LP rubber by design & user controllable). Pro & high level amateur choppers need (thick) sponge because there is so much top spin coming from the boosted loops that the ball will shoot off the wood if they do not use sponge. The sponge helps long pips translate this heavy incoming top spin into heavy backspin (use do be super heavy backspin in 38 mm ball era) .
    But at lower levels the sponge below the LP actually gives less control compared to OX LP.

    Who knows may be you are of those rare exceptions who can be Norio Takashima combined with Hou Ying Chao and Ma Long but what is the probability of that ? Think about it before you listen to ridiculous advice like chopping with short pips or inverted or anti. ( I will write a separate posting about short pips choppers & a player's weakside & strong side rubbers when I get time) .



    BTW I was only using Dtec , Feint Long 3 as an example. But they are actually low aspect ratio long pips TOTALLY useless in the 40+ plastic ball era as are all the long pipe on ITTF LARC. Stable high aspect ratio super long pips did not become available only recently from China & Indonesia but IMO this is what you should be using though I am sure ITTF hates these rubbers. Unfortunately there still is not a single super long pips rubber for chopping available for the 40+ ball era such as Feint Long 1 & Juic Leggy 1 were in the 38 ball era. The closest one is Magic 77 (available for like $9 on Ali Express) that I use myself now in all USATT sanctioned & unsanctioned tournaments in USA . Magic 77 ( I may be wrong but I think is made by Dawei (they make Saviga 77)) still does not have as much spin reversal in the 40+ era like Feint Long 1 did in 38 mm ball era but I guarantee you this one is far better than the crappy Feint Long 3 now. You should try it. The loopers in your club will get you banned from your club & if you are in Gujarat , they will have PM Modi serve an FIR on you & arrest you & have TTFI prosecute you.

    There are two reasons for why I am absolutely sure using short pips (or double inverted or anti) for chopping or just blocking as a secondary weakside rubber is an extremely bad idea (Again I know there are very few exceptions). One is social & other is technical. I will post these in a separate post when I get time to write it.

    Thanks for your reply carly.
    For starters, I am type-1, close to the table blocking, but I do go back for deeper chops when necessary. I'm fairly confident with my FH top spins, so the rallies are generally short when I attack. I am not a "natural" chopper, just something I have been doing for a long time. I prefer flipping and hitting with my BH in the first return itself. I also prefer returning serves with my inverted using BH flicks. Hence the confusion.

    I am a male and I play at a fairly lower level in India with no ranking but I plan on going further (seriously) . I belong to a tier2 city in a developing country, ofcourse they all hate me for my pips. But it has never mattered to me what people think as long as I beat them. This decision is completely to better my overall game. I used to be a fat kid growing up, maybe agility was the reason my coach thought it good to give me long pips. (for reference, my old coach who gave me the pips is now a national level coach who coaches the best of the best in india) Anyway, I'm a lot more agile and in control of my weight now so aggresive play is not something I will shy away from.
    I might just try using inverted for a couple weeks and see how it goes from there.
    I will not use short pips or anti though, as I agree with you on that. I play with Grass DtecS OX and it gives me enough reversal and control.

    I do appreciate your reply, although some people might not see the political humour you added as "humour" with the conditions prevailing in India, but since I'm a stand up comic, I appreciate the jabs! Cheers!


  10. Divyajeet is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 0 6
    Divyajeet's Avatar
    Divyajeet is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 6 0
    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    Sure why not? I would get a second bat and dress it with inverted on both sides. Then you can switch back and forth. But remember if you compete, most players hate playing against long pips (at least where I’m at )
    and it could give you an advantage.

    Cheers
    L-zr
    Thanks for your response.

    I will try inverted for a couple of weeks and see how it turns out. I'm an OX player, so inverted both sides increases the weight of the bat significanctly to tamper with my timing, but I can get used to that and 2 weeks is significant enough for me to try it out. and yes, the pips give me an advantage, but they hurt more since my natural instinct is to attack and I cant do that fast enough with long pips.
    cheers!


  11. Lycanthrope is offline
    says From RPB to SH
     
    Advanced TTD Member 134 231
    L
    Lycanthrope is offline
    says From RPB to SH
     
    Advanced TTD Member 231 134
    #11
    I think this is the same question that I had when I want to change from Penhold to Shakehand. I have searched a lot to find out the answer. The hundreds of answers I have found are saying pretty much the same: If you want to be better, no. If you want to have fun, why not? I remember an answer from China is saying this: the players using long pips or Transitional Chinese Penhold should be able to reach ChinaTT rating 2500 as easily as Shakehand two-wing loop. If a player meets bottleneck before that rating, the problem is more likely on himself but not on the playing style.

    I am not saying they won't be better if they change their playing styles. In fact, many of them are better since they changed from Penhold to Shakehand. But considering the effort they put on their training after the change, they can break through their bottleneck of their old playing style as well.
    Last edited by Lycanthrope; 06-14-2022 at 06:29 AM.

  12. Divyajeet is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 0 6
    Divyajeet's Avatar
    Divyajeet is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 6 0
    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    Do you play close to the table?

    For short pips that you tried, what was the sponge thickness?
    I find SP ox a lot easier to control than LP ox for example.

    yes, I play close to the table mostly.
    The sponge was max thickness and the pips were nittaku something.. I dont remember the actual name.
    Never tried SP OX. I have only ever played with LP OX. First it was Yasaka Phantom 007 infinity, now it's Tibhar Grass DtecS OX.

  13. Divyajeet is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 0 6
    Divyajeet's Avatar
    Divyajeet is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 6 0
    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthrope
    I think this is the same question that I had when I want to change from Penhold to Shakehand. I have searched a lot to find out the answer. The hundreds of answers I have found are saying pretty much the same: If you want to be better, no. If you want to have fun, why not? I remember an answer from China is saying this: the players using long pips or Transitional Chinese Penhold should be able to reach ChinaTT rating 2500 as easily as Shakehand two-wing loop. If a player meets bottleneck before that rating, the problem is more likely on himself but not on the playing style.

    I am not saying they won't be better if they change their playing styles. In fact, many of them are better since they changed from Penhold to Shakehand. But considering the effort they put on their training after the change, they can break through their bottleneck of their old playing style as well.

    Thanks for the response.
    Guess if I'm serious about changing my style, I gotta put in the hours.
    I'll make a decision soon.
    Cheers!


  14. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 3,032 4,571
    T
    Tony's Table Tennis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 4,571 3,032

    User Info Menu


    Sep 2013
    South Africa
    4,571
    3,032
    8938
    Read 3 Reviews
    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Divyajeet

    I do appreciate your reply, although some people might not see the political humour you added as "humour" with the conditions prevailing in India, but since I'm a stand up comic, I appreciate the jabs! Cheers!

    Carly is a special kind of special. Only a matter about time he gets banned and coming back with a new name.
    he was laughing at me when I said I have some of the top junior choppers in the country in my team. He said, what choppers do you have in Africa.
    So I'm not allowed to put a South African flag on and fly around the world coaching people? lol

    The dude is racist I tell you. Your Indian, my South African profile....., he all has some low iq conclusion from the profile.
    He has some agenda and his grudged (will soon show in this thread too) does mislead his views.


    coming back to you, if you are close to table LP blocker, then yes, SP won't work for you.
    I thought you mentioned chopper in your opening thread.

    Anyways, the modern male game, close to table blocker won't work.
    For amateurs, that can work, but the moment you are touching quality players, who isn't afraid of your pips, would just place the ball back and with pace and you won't be able to block every ball (just like classic defender won't work too)

    If you do want to stay with LP ox, then you need to premeditate your twiddle and play with a big variation.

    If you do want to try SP, then go for a thinner sponge to start off. Unless you want to be a 2 sided inverted attacking player. nothing wrong with enjoying it and telling us about it in a months time.

    TTT

  15. PingBirdPong is offline
    says Verified Cheater, Banned by ITTF :)
     
    Senior TTD Member 427 763
    PingBirdPong's Avatar
    PingBirdPong is offline
    says Verified Cheater, Banned by ITTF :)
     
    Senior TTD Member 763 427
    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis
    Clearly the supposed pip experts has no clue about short pimple choppers in China.
    There is no such thing as medium pimple.
    you get short (out) and long pimples. medium would normally be a shorter longer, or longer short (out), but officially it is either short or long.


    Short pips chopping - there is no problem with that.
    No matter if you are from India or Africa, or where ever, the ball is the size shape and the game is the same fun (unless you have grudges like Carly)

    Most Chinese choppers learn chopping starting off with short pips. Carly will easily say those coaches has no clue on what is going on, but who are you going to listen to - Someone like Carly who has not posted his video, nor shared his coaching abilities/credentials and then goes on about ITTF and his hate of them and then any one (like me) who does not agree with his behavior, are labeled all kinds of nonsense.
    About the “mid-pip” thing…
    the DHS C7 is probably the best example. It’s as long as LP and plays like SP.
    What I mean is, when my friend puts black rubbers on both side with one being that, I don’t like playing with him😁
    Achieve your dreams, or die trying.

  16. PingBirdPong is offline
    says Verified Cheater, Banned by ITTF :)
     
    Senior TTD Member 427 763
    PingBirdPong's Avatar
    PingBirdPong is offline
    says Verified Cheater, Banned by ITTF :)
     
    Senior TTD Member 763 427
    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Carly Siman

    Are you afraid to use the phrase "medium pips" because you may come off as agreeing with me or is it because you are afraid to come off as disagreeng with Tony, since Tony says there is no such thing as medeium pips ?

    Actually, I fully agree with Tony and think you are *****************************
    “medium pips” do not officially exist. There are just very long SPs that people call MPs by habit.

    Personally I don’t approve of such complications.

    The Following User Likes PingBirdPong's Post:

    Tony's Table Tennis

    Achieve your dreams, or die trying.

  17. PingBirdPong is offline
    says Verified Cheater, Banned by ITTF :)
     
    Senior TTD Member 427 763
    PingBirdPong's Avatar
    PingBirdPong is offline
    says Verified Cheater, Banned by ITTF :)
     
    Senior TTD Member 763 427
    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Carly Siman
    LOL Thanks
    Again it goes back to prove my point. You have two sets of rules.
    One for others that you preach. Asking them to be polite & nice
    But one just for yourself where you have special lincense to dish out personal attacks

    Oh Well
    I DARE you to show what I said that counts as an “attack”.
    a bunch of stars doesn’t count🤪
    Achieve your dreams, or die trying.

  18. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 3,032 4,571
    T
    Tony's Table Tennis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 4,571 3,032

    User Info Menu


    Sep 2013
    South Africa
    4,571
    3,032
    8938
    Read 3 Reviews
    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Carly Siman

    since Tony says there is no such thing as medeium pips ?

    There is no such things as medeium pips.

    The Following User Likes Tony's Table Tennis's Post:

    PingBirdPong

    TTT

  19. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 3,032 4,571
    T
    Tony's Table Tennis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 4,571 3,032

    User Info Menu


    Sep 2013
    South Africa
    4,571
    3,032
    8938
    Read 3 Reviews
    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Carly Siman
    Thank you so much. Glad you noticed.
    You thought I only hated Indians, Africans, Vietnamese & Swedes (because of their love for long pips (male) choppers) .
    But did you know I also hate Chinese, Koreans, Japanese & North Americans even more intensely because they refer to tabletennis as pingpong ?

    I can only tell you taking table tennis/ping pong way too serious and for too many decades now.

    TTT

  20. Davis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 1 14
    D
    Davis is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 14 1

    User Info Menu


    Sep 2022
    United States
    14
    1
    0
    Read 0 Reviews
    #20
    Tony's Table Tennis;371331 Date 06-15-2022
    There is no such things as medeium pips.
    Tony's Table Tennis Wrote in Late August 20222 in article 378684
    Don't be confused about medium pips per say.
    The greatest player of all time used MP to win many titles and retire by age 25.
    So medium pips is no where close to be useless or just a covering.
    Thanks for clarifying that Tony 😲
    Last edited by Davis; 09-17-2022 at 10:32 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Create a new Topic:
Title is required.