Blade Replacement - Carbon or All Wood ?

Brs

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There was some issue with my login (Maybe some other people who have used Facebook account for login, have also noticed this issue. My solution was to reset the password and then it worked), and hence I couldn't reply you earlier.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience and guidance, really thanks a ton!!! I'm convinced with your advice and I plan to replace H3NEO on FH side with a European style rubbers .I think at this moment, Tenergy 05 might be too much for me, hence I'm thinking of getting Nittaku Fastarc G-1 for my FH. As mentioned before I was thinking of Rakza 7 also for FH, but that rubber I already have for my BH, so, just out of curiosity, and based on videos on YouTube and some reviews. I decided to pick this one. Seems like a rubber that might suit me well. If not then will swap it with my Rakza 7 on BH.

Hopefully, in about a month will share my experience.

G1 is a really nice rubber, I used it for year or two. If later you feel like changing to G1 compromised your serve and short game too much, you could try Hurricane 8. My FH rubber progression went T05/80 -> G1 -> H8. H8 seems very easy to use, even though I am small, old, weak, slow, and not chinese.

My experience doesn't match the prevailing forum idea that perfect technique is required to use hard tacky rubbers. AFAIK that isn't backed up by any rigorous statistical analysis. Maybe people just feel more pain when a ball dies in the net than when it flies two feet off the end. Or feel more pain when they miss a loop than when they pop up a receive and get third-ball killed.

In other words, euro rubbers are also hard to use without great technique. The things they make more difficult are just different from a chinese rubber. Table tennis is a tough game.

 

NDH

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G1 is a really nice rubber, I used it for year or two. If later you feel like changing to G1 compromised your serve and short game too much, you could try Hurricane 8. My FH rubber progression went T05/80 -> G1 -> H8. H8 seems very easy to use, even though I am small, old, weak, slow, and not chinese.

My experience doesn't match the prevailing forum idea that perfect technique is required to use hard tacky rubbers. AFAIK that isn't backed up by any rigorous statistical analysis. Maybe people just feel more pain when a ball dies in the net than when it flies two feet off the end. Or feel more pain when they miss a loop than when they pop up a receive and get third-ball killed.

In other words, euro rubbers are also hard to use without great technique. The things they make more difficult are just different from a chinese rubber. Table tennis is a tough game.

Agree with what you've said there @Brs.

To clarify my earlier comments about Chinese rubbers being hard to use, I was specifically talking about Amit's standard/technique and other people who play like him.

From the video, he's a good player, with what looks to be more "European" strokes.

When looking at players who have been coached in a more "European style", but perhaps aren't right at the top of their game, they will struggle to achieve the same results with Chinese rubbers vs Euro rubbers (IMHO).

2 main reasons I can think of.

1. Footwork will likely not be as good, so you'll be out of position on a lot of shots. A Euro rubber won't mind as much, a Chinese rubber won't be happy...

2. Shot strength - Either because you are out of position, or because you aren't 100% confident in your strokes, anything other than 100% shot speed on a Chinese rubber is usually a recipe for disaster - Compare that with, say, Tenergy 05, and you can be out of position, out of time, and still produce a fast, spinny shot which didn't need much of a swing.

I completely agree that both Chinese rubbers and Euro rubbers will need good technique to get the most out of them, but based on Amit's video, his technique looks much more suited to a Euro rubber than a Chinese one.

But it's always good to get multiple opinions!

 
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Hi Equaaz,

I am using Xiom Offensive S and Solo (both are lovely all-wood blades). Of them, Solo vibrates less (but it still has some vibrations to a healthy extent, and it is only semi-stiff, not that stiff, like a Viscaria) - I would suggest trying these rubbers: Victas Ventus Extra, Nittaku Fastarc G-1 - these are truly offensive rubbers, but with relatively great control.

Hi,

For the rubbers, i think i have find the right choice for me. H3 Neo is just perfect for my Forehand.
I can perhaps think about my backhand but since the Xiom Vega (Pro, Europe, Asia, etc ...) are currently on sale at 27 € ... I won't look any further. I want to stay on a low cost setup as long as I don't know more about my playing style
Thank you

 
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G1 is a really nice rubber, I used it for year or two. If later you feel like changing to G1 compromised your serve and short game too much, you could try Hurricane 8. My FH rubber progression went T05/80 -> G1 -> H8. H8 seems very easy to use, even though I am small, old, weak, slow, and not chinese.

My experience doesn't match the prevailing forum idea that perfect technique is required to use hard tacky rubbers. AFAIK that isn't backed up by any rigorous statistical analysis. Maybe people just feel more pain when a ball dies in the net than when it flies two feet off the end. Or feel more pain when they miss a loop than when they pop up a receive and get third-ball killed.

In other words, euro rubbers are also hard to use without great technique. The things they make more difficult are just different from a chinese rubber. Table tennis is a tough game.


Very interesting !
I am looking for a runber similar to the H3 Neo but which requires less effort for my backhand. Is the H8 actually some kind of hybrid?
But there are so many different H8 ...

 
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Firstly, Amit.... THANK YOU for posting a video (even if it's a couple of years old). This is the absolute minimum for any serious advice - It really makes a difference.

You might play at a low level, but your ability from the video would indicate that your success rate is down to the fact you are likely playing in a league/division that is too low for you.

It's always difficult to judge that particular aspect, as you might have a really strong league where you play, and actually, the lower divisions are still really good - But on the basis of your video, you look to be a good player.

OK, rubbers.

Personally, as a European who has been coached in a European way, I hate the Chinese rubbers. It also doesn't help that I'm 6ft 4 and "Chinese quickness" isn't my strong point, but unless you are putting 100% into every loop, Chinese rubbers will always leave you feeling underwhelmed.

From experience, there aren't many (any?) players who play at a non pro level that can truthfully say they have the movement, speed and technique to get the most out of their Chinese rubbers.

Now, if you want to use them simply because you want to...... That's a different matter, and I imagine this is what the vast majority of the players using these rubbers are doing.

However, based on your technique (and comments), I think you'd benefit from European rubbers (of which there are many to chose from).

You can still go down the slightly tackier/harder route if you want (Dignics 09c for example), but even something like Tenergy 05 Hard would be good (and
cheaper).

There seems to be some sort of "pride" issue with admitting that table tennis players aren't quick enough, powerful enough, or have the right footwork to maximise a Chinese tacky rubber....... But that is the reality for the vast majority of us.

Based on your clip and comments, I think you'll find your loops will have more spin, more speed and you'll be able to play much better shots from bad positions than the rubbers you are currently using (if you move to something like a Tenergy).

Good luck!

It really is nice to have someone on the forum speaking sense and giving such good advice. Guys, more of you should be hitting the like button on all of NDH's posts.

 
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Hi !

I have just been given the opportunity to buy a new Yinhe V-14 Pro blade (Timo Boll ALC / Viscaria clone) for only € 30. I will be able to answer my question myself and compare my 5 ply wood to the most popular carbon blades. First, I would do the tests with the same rubbers and then with those I plan to buy later.

I took your remarks into consideration and you convinced me to give up the Hurricane 3 Neo because even if I aspire to get closer to the forehand of the Chinese, I would never have it. So you might as well find a compromise. I like the sticky side of the H3 Neo so maybe a Rakza Z could please me and might even on the backhand too.
 
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Hi !

I have just been given the opportunity to buy a new Yinhe V-14 Pro blade (Timo Boll ALC / Viscaria clone) for only € 30. I will be able to answer my question myself and compare my 5 ply wood to the most popular carbon blades. First, I would do the tests with the same rubbers and then with those I plan to buy later.

I took your remarks into consideration and you convinced me to give up the Hurricane 3 Neo because even if I aspire to get closer to the forehand of the Chinese, I would never have it. So you might as well find a compromise. I like the sticky side of the H3 Neo so maybe a Rakza Z could please me and might even on the backhand too.
Rakza Z is a rubber not to be underestimated. It needs to be played actively, but then it has very good dynamics. As I have a fairly strong backhand, it is not a problem for me, but overall, it is better suited as a forehand rubber, as I think based on how it plays.
I just assembled a racket (Yinhe Pro Feeling) recently with both sides Rakza Z on. Pretty heavy I must admit, but very satisfying.

 
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Hello,

In the hope that this thread can help other players, here is an update of my situation after receiving your various tips and of course with my personal research.

I managed to target my taste in equipment and find a solution for every aspect from the equipment reviews.
Concerning the wood, and since my main weak point is my insecurity and my mistakes, I therefore chose a rather slow blade, good for progression and flexible: Yasaka Sweden Extra. It is by far the best blade for less than 50 € that I have had in my hands. The Novacell OFF is inert in comparison (foam in the handle ...) and the sensations of the DHS PG7 are disgusting (I suspect a lack of manufacturing quality on mine).
For the forehand rubber, I found a perfect alternative to the H3 Neo thanks to the Rakza Z (2mm). For the backhand I stayed at Yasaka with the Rakza 7 (2mm), a little faster than the Z, perfect for my shoulder and with good control and surprising blocks.

This racquet immediately struck me as familiar and balanced, as if everything was going smoothly. Only downside, I would have liked the Rakza 7 to be a little softer (~ 42/45 ° ESN) because the transition with the Xiom Europe DF is a bit brutal.

Since I have finally found something that I feel confident in, I will stop looking at the material and focus on my training and competitions. Thank you for your advice. I'm sorry I didn't get them earlier, it would take a thread that brings together all the great hardware tips for beginner / intermediate players. (I tried to create it on a French-speaking forum but the users did not see the point ...)
 
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Hi everyone !

I would like to have your opinion on the conditions necessary to pass from a 5 ply wood to a 7 ply or a 5 + 2 carbon please?

Here is my situation, I resumed table tennis a few months ago after several years of absence and I quickly bought an Andro Novacell Off (FL) blade with Xiom Vega Europe (2mm FH) and Xiom Vega Euro DF (1.8mm BH).
I damaged this blade recently but since I lacked control and rotation, I bought, on the advice of a national player in France, a DHS Power G7 with two non-boosted H3 Neo.
This new racquet does not suit me either, the PG7 vibrates tremendously and feels hollow with unbalanced weight distribution and the H3 Neo on the backhand is taking too much effort from me right now.


I am considering two possibilities, going back to a 5 ply wood like the Xiom Offensive S or the Tibhar Stratus Power Wood, or going directly to the final blade that I would like to use in the long term like the Viscaria or maybe the Xiom Stradivarius. What would you do knowing that I see more and more children with carbon blades and that the Viscaria has a wide handle which would suit me perfectly?
Okay I'm not a child anymore (24 years old) but is it too late to follow this example?
For the Rubbers, I am thinking of keeping an H3 Neo in FH and taking a Tensor in BH.

Thank you !

Hi Equaaz,

I am by no means a biased promoter of certain brand of equipment, but the PG7 is actually a good 7-ply all wood blade that suits your preferred rubbers (H3 Neo & Tensor in FH & BH). It is a widely popular blade in China and Asia as far as I know, especially for those who trains using the 'Chinese philosophy'.
A similar alternative for the 5+2 blade is the PG5 / PG5x , they used to be 5-ply all wood but the recent versions are now made into 5+2 ALC iirc. Tibhar SPW is also a good 7-ply all wood blade, but almost double the price of PG7 (last I checked on Indonesia market price).

Using H3 Neo on BH is a bit difficult honestly, unless you are a pro level and/or can hit REALLY HARD (have strong arm), hence opting for a Euro tensor on BH is a logical choice for many.

I myself use Hurricane 301 (5+2), also from DHS. For the rubbers I also use similar setup, a tacky Chinese rubber on the FH (I am a FH dominant player who likes to topspin), and a Euro tensor on the BH (you can see my detailed setup on my signature down below).

I was also at a similar point as you, thinking to myself should I just buy a Viscaria and stick with it forever. But after practicing with my coach last night, doing multi-ball topspin (he feeds me ridiculously heavy backspins), I feel that my H301 is by far the best blade I've ever used, personally. It is rather flexible for an ALC blade and with the setup I mentioned above, top-spinning and lifting backspins is much easier - provided you do a proper 'full stroke' since the blade is also linear in terms of power generation (especially when coupled with a Chinese rubber). With Viscaria though, it's more forgiving in terms of technique application for better quality shots, and it's a good blade if you are a BH dominant player, and yes the wide FL handle is nice if you have a big hand.

(I previously used Donic Epox Offensiv (5ply wood) and Donic Black Devil (5+2 carbon balsa) - the latter was horrible to control; sometimes it's good, other times it's just terrible, like a moody girlfriend on period LOL).

My personal recommendation would be: try again a couple of practice sessions using the PG7 and see how it goes. You are still quite young at your age and therefore more physically fit to do a 'full-stroke' the Chinese way, like Zhang Jike.

Good luck, looking forward to how it goes for you.
Cheers

Edit: looks like you got yourself your new setup already! :)
In any case, I hope my post here can help the others too, especially regarding the Viscaria/Chinese rubbers and blades, all-wood vs carbon, etc.

 
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It really is nice to have someone on the forum speaking sense and giving such good advice. Guys, more of you should be hitting the like button on all of NDH's posts.

No, I'm not hitting the like-button because I think NDHs views on Chinese rubbers are outdated and wrong. We have all been reading these arguments for years and years, but the truth is that H3 has become one of the most sold rubbers worldwide because players see its advantages - especially now in the 40+ plastic ball area - more and more. Also virtually every serious TT brand nowadays is trying create its own version of H3. They are not doing this for fun. Even Butterfly is doing it, the company NHD is so very fond of. Its more like T05 is becoming a thing of the past now (at least as a forehand rubber).

Chinese sticky rubbers perform better in the short game and in serve and receive, they give you more control and can produce more spin when you loop even with the plastic ball. So there are actually quite a lot of advantages compared to bouncy, uncontrollable European rubbers (which are more suitable for the backhand IMO).

 
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NDH

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No, I'm not hitting the like-button because I think NDHs views on Chinese rubbers are outdated and wrong. We have all been reading these arguments for years and years, but the truth is that H3 has become one of the most sold rubbers worldwide because players see its advantages - especially now in the 40+ plastic ball area - more and more. Also virtually every serious TT brand nowadays is trying create its own version of H3. Even Butterfly, the company NHD is so very fond of. Its more like T05 is becoming a thing of the past (at least as a forehand rubber).Chinese sticky rubbers perform better in the short game and serve and receive, they give you more control and are able to produce more spin when you loop even with the plastic ball. So there are actually quite a lot of advantages compared to bouncy, uncontrollable European rubbers (which are more suitable for the backhand).

Hey MK73, I’m genuinely curious as to which of my views you feel are outdated and wrong?

I agree with the vast majority of what you have said, although there are certainly some caveats to this.

H3 being one of the most sold rubbers worldwide? I have no stats on that (although I wouldn’t disagree), but I’m pretty confident a big part of that is the low price, and the fact it’s the CNT Forehand rubber of choice……. All of those people wanting to copy Ma Long, FZD and so on…… It’s the same reason branded blades sell so well.

I also agree with the advantages you’ve stated - It’s the reason I use 09c on my FH!

But…. My personally feeling is that for the *vast majority* of players who play with a more “European” style, it’s not anywhere near as good as something like T05.

I’m happy to have a difference of opinion, but personally, I feel you need to have quick arm speed, good technique, good footwork and a good level of fitness to make the most out of a rubber like H3 (or any other Chinese tacky rubber).

The people who would benefit from it are players at the bottom, and players at the top……

The vast majority of recreational players fall into the middle, and it’s these who don’t have the ability to make the most of the rubber, but could definitely make better shots with T05 or similar.

 
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I’m happy to have a difference of opinion, but personally, I feel you need to have quick arm speed, good technique, good footwork and a good level of fitness to make the most out of a rubber like H3 (or any other Chinese tacky rubber).

Every advantage comes with a disadvantage... But the same goes for T05 which is extremely difficult to control especially in the short game and in serve and receive. The ball bounces too quickly out of the rubber and that seems to me to be a much more serious problem for beginners and intermediate level players. These players put the ball into the net or beyond the table before the rally has even started. Now that can be extremely frustrating, don't you think? T05 is also extremely spin sensitive, another aspect which makes it difficult to control.

I think OPs choice, Fastarc G-1, is very sensible because this is the one non-tacky ESN rubber which is closest to H3.

 
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NDH

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Every advantage comes with a disadvantage... But the same goes for T05 which is extremely difficult to control especially in the short game and in serve and receive. The ball bounces too quickly out of the rubber and that seems to me to be a much more serious problem for beginners and intermediate level players. These players put the ball into the net or beyond the table before the rally has even started. Now that can be extremely frustrating, don't you think? T05 is also extremely spin sensitive, another aspect which makes it difficult to control.

I think OPs choice, Fastarc G-1, is very sensible because this is the one non-tacky ESN rubber which is closest to H3.

Again, I pretty much agree with you! I’m not sure why T05 keeps getting used as an example (I’m guilty of that), as it’s definitely a rubber for the advanced player.

What I meant, was pretty much….. Any non tacky “Euro” rubber is better for most people (compared with H3) - G1 comes into that category.

But I’m still not sure which part of what I said previously you disagree with? 😃

 
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What I meant, was pretty much….. Any non tacky “Euro” rubber is better for most people (compared with H3)

With this. I think it is too one sided. But I'm not trying to convince you of anything. We can just leave it there.

And btw, my son, who is 9 years old, plays with Chinese rubbers fh and bh and he is developing quickly. They can't be too bad, even for Europeans 😉
 
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With this. I think it is too one sided. But I'm not trying to convince you of anything. We can just leave it there.

And btw, my son, who is 9 years old, plays with Chinese rubbers fh and bh and he is developing quickly. They can't be too bad, even for Europeans 😉

NDH’s son is also using tacky rubbers!!

 
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NDH’s son is also using tacky rubbers!!

Yeah, good choice! 😊 What I was trying to say was that H3 is an amazing rubber which you can use from a beginners level up to intermediate, advanced AND world class level. Isn't that something? Haha... Now try to do the the same with T05, Victas V 15 Extra, Rasanter 53 or MX-P...

 
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NDH

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Yeah, good choice! 😊 What I was trying to say was that H3 is an amazing rubber which you can use from a beginners level up to intermediate, advanced AND world class level. Isn't that something? Haha... Now try to do the the same with T05, Victas V 15 Extra, Rasanter 53 or MX-P...

Yeah my son was using cheap Chinese rubbers for the first 2 years (interrupted by Covid, so he didn’t have 2 solid years of training, more like….. 8 months).

I think I’ve said before, I absolutely recommend the tacky rubbers for beginners, and I 100% agree that it the only type of rubber that can be used for every ability level.

My son has just upgraded to G5 on both sides and an OFF all wood blade - We’ve trained 3 times this week and he’s playing some much better table tennis now.

But he’s only able to use the rubbers because he’s developed the proper strokes using the slower, tacky rubbers from before.

If you have a coach who understands how Chinese rubbers are subtly different, and the different requirements needed, then it’s absolutely an option.

All of the coaches around here wouldn’t, and would teach a more “European” forehand stroke.

But it really comes down to the coaches you know!

 
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