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  1. NDH is offline
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    #1

    Butterfly Dimitrij Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC Review

    Hey guys,

    I thought I'd start this thread now with a few initial impressions, before taking it for a spin on Monday and Tuesday next week and providing more of a review.

    If anyone has any questions, please let me know!




    For some context/reference, you can find my Harimoto Innerforce ALC review here - https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...rce-ALC-Review

    I'll do some comparisons between the Harimoto, Ovtcharov and Timo Boll ALC.

    The Harimoto and Ovtcharov look very similar in composition, and the Ovtcharov and TB ALC are *very* similar on the Butterfly graph.

    Initial Impressions

    Looks are always subjective, but I love the look of the handle. I'm a sucker for good looking blades, and I think Butterfly do this best by some distance!

    The handle is the Round/Straight (same as the Harimoto) compared with the Square/Straight of the TB ALC.

    I used to prefer the SQ/ST handles, but I actually don't mind either these days.

    The one thing I'd say here, is that the Butterfly dimensions would have you believe that the RD/ST handle was bigger than the SQ/ST (marginally) - But I don't find that to be the case when held in hand. The SQ/ST feels ever so slightly thicker, due to the more pronounced edges.

    In reality, they are both almost the same, and in a blind test, I'd struggle to notice much difference.

    The Ovtcharov feels a little thicker than the Harimoto though.

    Build Quality/Finish

    This is another area Butterfly always kill it - Superb finish on all parts of the blade.

    To Be Added

    I'll add more about the playing characteristics later next week once I've used it.

    However, please note:

    My TB ALC has T05 on both sides (I've been using this set up since March 2020, and bear in mind not a lot was played in that time!)

    My Harimoto ALC has T05 Hard and T05.

    My Ovtcharov ALC has Dignics 09c on the FH and Dignics 05 on the BH - So this is going to be virtually impossible to do a direct comparison with the other 2 blades/rubbers.

    If anyone is curious about the wood thickness, I've added the photos below comparing the Ovtcharov to both the Harimoto and TB ALC.

    Ovtcharov ALC on the left and Harimoto ALC on the right




    TB ALC on the left and Ovtcharov ALC on the right




    Why I use Butterfly?

    OK, this might be an unpopular opinion in the Table Tennis world, but here goes.

    Butterfly is expensive, there is no doubt about that (comically so at times).

    I'd really struggle to recommend Butterfly equipment to lots of groups of people:

    • Young people (where their parents pay for the equipment)
    • Developing players who might not be able to tell the difference or get the most out of the equipment
    • People who might be on a tight budget for whatever reason
    • People who really don't care what they use

    That's not a full list by any stretch, but it gives you an idea.

    I use Butterfly because:

    • I like the brand/Pro's that use it.
    • I play at a high level in the UK where I feel (rightly or wrongly) that I can get the most out of the equipment.
    • I can afford it - It sounds cold and blunt, but if I was on a budget I would not be dropping £80 on 1 sheet of Dignics. Table Tennis is my "main" hobby and I don't mind spending money on it.
    • I like the mental reassurance that my rubbers will last 3-6 months of playing 2 times a week.

    Again, it's not an exhaustive list, but I hope it gives you a little more context into the review.

    Finally

    My current opinions on my other 2 set ups are:

    Harimoto ALC with T05 - A teeny tiny bit too slow in the passive game. Blocks amazingly, fantasticly large sweet spot, but left me feeling a touch underwhelmed in the end.

    TB ALC with T05 - In reality, I didn't need to switch from this (you could say the same about the Harimoto too). There is definitely an element of simply me wanting new stuff here, in the on going search for the set up I finally stick with.

    But the downsides to the TB ALC for me is "touch" - When you are playing well, it's fantastic. But it's super quick (I actually think it's quicker than people think it is). Paired with T05 makes it super bouncy, and the short game is very difficult.

    My hopes for the Ovtcharov with Dignics is that I gain much more control in the short game, whilst not losing much in the attacking game.

    On paper, that's exactly what I get! But time will tell if it's marketing, placebo, or actual results!

    PS - I'll weigh the set up on Monday when I take the plastic sheet off Dignics 09c




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  2. Dipak1974 is offline
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    #2
    Quote Originally Posted by NDH
    Hey guys,

    I thought I'd start this thread now with a few initial impressions, before taking it for a spin on Monday and Tuesday next week and providing more of a review.

    If anyone has any questions, please let me know!




    For some context/reference, you can find my Harimoto Innerforce ALC review here - https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...rce-ALC-Review

    I'll do some comparisons between the Harimoto, Ovtcharov and Timo Boll ALC.

    The Harimoto and Ovtcharov look very similar in composition, and the Ovtcharov and TB ALC are *very* similar on the Butterfly graph.

    Initial Impressions

    Looks are always subjective, but I love the look of the handle. I'm a sucker for good looking blades, and I think Butterfly do this best by some distance!

    The handle is the Round/Straight (same as the Harimoto) compared with the Square/Straight of the TB ALC.

    I used to prefer the SQ/ST handles, but I actually don't mind either these days.

    The one thing I'd say here, is that the Butterfly dimensions would have you believe that the RD/ST handle was bigger than the SQ/ST (marginally) - But I don't find that to be the case when held in hand. The SQ/ST feels ever so slightly thicker, due to the more pronounced edges.

    In reality, they are both almost the same, and in a blind test, I'd struggle to notice much difference.

    The Ovtcharov feels a little thicker than the Harimoto though.

    Build Quality/Finish

    This is another area Butterfly always kill it - Superb finish on all parts of the blade.

    To Be Added

    I'll add more about the playing characteristics later next week once I've used it.

    However, please note:

    My TB ALC has T05 on both sides (I've been using this set up since March 2020, and bear in mind not a lot was played in that time!)

    My Harimoto ALC has T05 Hard and T05.

    My Ovtcharov ALC has Dignics 09c on the FH and Dignics 05 on the BH - So this is going to be virtually impossible to do a direct comparison with the other 2 blades/rubbers.

    If anyone is curious about the wood thickness, I've added the photos below comparing the Ovtcharov to both the Harimoto and TB ALC.

    Ovtcharov ALC on the left and Harimoto ALC on the right




    TB ALC on the left and Ovtcharov ALC on the right




    Why I use Butterfly?

    OK, this might be an unpopular opinion in the Table Tennis world, but here goes.

    Butterfly is expensive, there is no doubt about that (comically so at times).

    I'd really struggle to recommend Butterfly equipment to lots of groups of people:

    • Young people (where their parents pay for the equipment)
    • Developing players who might not be able to tell the difference or get the most out of the equipment
    • People who might be on a tight budget for whatever reason
    • People who really don't care what they use

    That's not a full list by any stretch, but it gives you an idea.

    I use Butterfly because:

    • I like the brand/Pro's that use it.
    • I play at a high level in the UK where I feel (rightly or wrongly) that I can get the most out of the equipment.
    • I can afford it - It sounds cold and blunt, but if I was on a budget I would not be dropping £80 on 1 sheet of Dignics. Table Tennis is my "main" hobby and I don't mind spending money on it.
    • I like the mental reassurance that my rubbers will last 3-6 months of playing 2 times a week.

    Again, it's not an exhaustive list, but I hope it gives you a little more context into the review.

    Finally

    My current opinions on my other 2 set ups are:

    Harimoto ALC with T05 - A teeny tiny bit too slow in the passive game. Blocks amazingly, fantasticly large sweet spot, but left me feeling a touch underwhelmed in the end.

    TB ALC with T05 - In reality, I didn't need to switch from this (you could say the same about the Harimoto too). There is definitely an element of simply me wanting new stuff here, in the on going search for the set up I finally stick with.

    But the downsides to the TB ALC for me is "touch" - When you are playing well, it's fantastic. But it's super quick (I actually think it's quicker than people think it is). Paired with T05 makes it super bouncy, and the short game is very difficult.

    My hopes for the Ovtcharov with Dignics is that I gain much more control in the short game, whilst not losing much in the attacking game.

    On paper, that's exactly what I get! But time will tell if it's marketing, placebo, or actual results!

    PS - I'll weigh the set up on Monday when I take the plastic sheet off Dignics 09c


    Look forward to your review and comparison. I think speed and control u will find Dima sits in between the TB and HM. I have tried a friends TB with T05 and I find it quick and hard to control specially in a tight game. He himself struggles to control all the time but is content with it.

    I over the past yr and half have tried various blades. I previously had Apolonia ZLC with T05 but found wanted more control so changed to D05 on bh then moved to D80 as found it easier to use and then moved to D09C on fh so my rubber combo has been D09C and D80 since Aug 2020.

    From Dec 20 I started testing blades after having settled with my rubbers. I tested IFLALC but found it too slow. Then tested HMALC for a while and found control amazing but for me found it little slow away from table. I would say HM is a close to the table counter attack blade.
    I then tested the Mizutani ZLC which I loved. What I noticed during this period was after testing HM and MJ that Apolonia is very unpredictable and unstable. Blocking with HM and MJ is far better and VERY precise. Only thing about MJ would be the touch game as it’s a fast blade.

    I wanted to really find a ALC blade that suits me and what has good control that HM had but with the speed I liked from Apolonia and eventually found it in the Lin Gaoyuan ALC. Have been using this for 2 months now and absolutely love it. It’s the same composition as the Viscaria and TBALC but softer and more controlled. Blocked are fantastic and it plays well any distance which is a real plus.

    I know some high level players in top 20 uk at my club that are using either lin Gaoyuan or HM or the new Dima ALC.

    out of curiousity what is your TTE and ranking? Do u play competition’s?


  3. NDH is offline
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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Dipak1974


    out of curiousity what is your TTE and ranking? Do u play competition’s?

    I don't play the tournaments or ranked competitions, because they are all at weekends and the family gets in the way!

    It's difficult to pin point where I'd be, because the ranking system is so broken in the UK!

    I've beaten people in the top 200, and lost to people in the top 400!

    I'd probably put myself around top 350 ish in the UK - I'm usually 80% in the top divisions of the local leagues.

    But outside of the top 50, it's a pretty similar standard through to the top 500!

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  4. NDH is offline
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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Bella8Corey
    In my opinion it looks like a work of art and not like a table tennis racket))) How much does such a pair of rackets cost?

    It does look fancy!

    It cost £179 for the blade in the UK.

    The rubbers are £80 each...... Ouch!


  5. KM1976 is offline
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    #5

    NDH,
    Firstly, I really love the way you click photos. I makes me think that I need to buy this blade too .
    You are spot on when you say that Butterfly does have the highest quality. If you are playing at a high level and have a very well established game then why not use the best (plus you can afford it too).
    I really look forward to your review. The blade looks fantastic in my opinion plus your photographs are amazing. I wish I knew how to click photos like that.
    Thanks and keep safe,
    KM1976

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    Most of the times practice, patience and an observant mind answers all your questions

  6. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by NDH

    It does look fancy!

    It cost £179 for the blade in the UK.

    The rubbers are £80 each...... Ouch!

    Your answer is fine. I just wanted you to know that was a spambot trying to get links posted.

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    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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  7. NDH is offline
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl

    Your answer is fine. I just wanted you to know that was a spambot trying to get links posted.

    I was 90% sure it was, but I felt better knowing the spambot understood the true pain of buying DIgnics 😂

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  8. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by NDH

    I was 90% sure it was, but I felt better knowing the spambot understood the true pain of buying DIgnics 😂

    Yep. The answer is good for other people. BTW, I did say bot, but probably that was a human who was a spammer.

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    #9
    Interesting review.

    At the moment. Too little table tennis I'm afraid.

  10. NDH is offline
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by calvincandie
    Interesting review.

    At the moment. Too little table tennis I'm afraid.

    Lol, yes, I guess absolutely zero actual table tennis is probably too little! 😃

    I’m playing with it tomorrow night and Tuesday night - I just wanted to get my initial impressions up, and give people a chance to ask any questions so I can bear that in mind when practicing.


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    #11

    OK, first impressions are in…..

    The short answer is…. If you are looking for something different to the TB ALC/Viscaria’s of this world. This isn’t it.

    It’s much harder than the Harimoto Innerforce ALC, with a crisper feeling.

    The long answer is….. More complicated.

    I’ll start off by saying that I was playing with 2 rubbers I’ve never used before (Dignics 09c and Dignics 05), so this is some what of an unfair impression right now.

    But I have hit with a Viscaria with 09c, so I have some comparisons to make there.

    Whilst this is classed as an Innerforce blade, it feels closer to the TB ALC, than it does to the slower Innerforce Layer.

    You get a nice woody feel on slow shots and play around the net, but the carbon feeling kicks in a little quicker than the Harimoto ALC when you start playing more aggressively.

    I personally like the feeling of the wooden blades AND the carbon blades, so it was always going to be a winner for me in that respect.

    Paired with Dignics 09c on the forehand, it’s superb.

    You have the slow touch around the net, great control on the blocks and counters, and fantastic top end speed.

    Dignics 05 on the backhand will take more time to get used to (coming from Tenergy 05), but the flicks, loops and punches are all wonderful to play.

    Passive shots is where it fell down on tonights performance, as you have to give it a little more of your own energy, rather than relying on the rubber/blade to do the work for you.

    Overall….. A good first impression.

    I have 3 matches tomorrow night, so I’ll know a little more after that!

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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by NDH

    OK, first impressions are in…..

    The short answer is…. If you are looking for something different to the TB ALC/Viscaria’s of this world. This isn’t it.

    It’s much harder than the Harimoto Innerforce ALC, with a crisper feeling.

    The long answer is….. More complicated.

    I’ll start off by saying that I was playing with 2 rubbers I’ve never used before (Dignics 09c and Dignics 05), so this is some what of an unfair impression right now.

    But I have hit with a Viscaria with 09c, so I have some comparisons to make there.

    Whilst this is classed as an Innerforce blade, it feels closer to the TB ALC, than it does to the slower Innerforce Layer.

    You get a nice woody feel on slow shots and play around the net, but the carbon feeling kicks in a little quicker than the Harimoto ALC when you start playing more aggressively.

    I personally like the feeling of the wooden blades AND the carbon blades, so it was always going to be a winner for me in that respect.

    Paired with Dignics 09c on the forehand, it’s superb.

    You have the slow touch around the net, great control on the blocks and counters, and fantastic top end speed.

    Dignics 05 on the backhand will take more time to get used to (coming from Tenergy 05), but the flicks, loops and punches are all wonderful to play.

    Passive shots is where it fell down on tonights performance, as you have to give it a little more of your own energy, rather than relying on the rubber/blade to do the work for you.

    Overall….. A good first impression.

    I have 3 matches tomorrow night, so I’ll know a little more after that!

    Nice thanks for the little review, good luck in the matches


  13. Tonimontana is offline
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    #13

    Hi NDH, thanks for your review. After playing those matches, could you share any second thoughts that you may have?

    Thanks mate!


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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonimontana

    Hi NDH, thanks for your review. After playing those matches, could you share any second thoughts that you may have?

    Thanks mate!

    Sure.

    I'm going to again reiterate that the Dignics rubbers on both FH (09C) and BH (05) are wildly different to the T05 I have been using for the past few years on my TB ALC and Harimoto ALC.

    I don't want to constantly bang this point home, but Dignics really changes the whole dynamic of the blade, so please bear that in mind with my points below.....

    Control:

    Absolutely bundles of control - Probably more so than any other set up I've used. This will definitely be impacted by Dignics being significantly less bouncy than Tenergy, especially on the FH with 09C.

    Power:

    For anyone who can play full attacking shots, this will be absolutely more than enough. Top end speed is virtually the same as the TB ALC, with no noticeable difference.

    Spin:

    Again, very rubber dependant but you get a lot of spin on both fast shots and slow shots.

    Rubbers:

    OK, I know this is a blade review of sorts, but I have to go back to the rubbers.

    Using Dignics on this blade makes it feel very much like a hard carbon blade. Certainly on the FH with Dignics 09C, you get a loud "clack" from the hard rubber and blade - The same I'd expect from a carbon blade such as the TB ALC.

    If someone is looking for a significant step down from the TB ALC level of blade, I'd look to the Harimoto or similar.

    This blade is MUCH closer to the TB ALC, that I reckon in a blind test it would be hard to distinguish too much between them both.

    It has a slightly better touch around the net, but we are splitting hairs at this point.

    Arguably, it does exactly what I wanted from the blade. TB ALC levels of speed when I attack, but more control in the short game and blocks.


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    #15
    The nice pictures you got really add another dimension to your review ! I'm not interested at all buying the blade, but it's always nice to read great reviews

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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Rinforzando
    The nice pictures you got really add another dimension to your review ! I'm not interested at all buying the blade, but it's always nice to read great reviews

    Thanks!

    I'm Butterfly's dream customer.... Make a good looking blade and I'm all over it!

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  17. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by NDH

    Thanks!

    I'm Butterfly's dream customer.... Make a good looking blade and I'm all over it!

    Send them a link to the review.

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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by NDH

    ... The one thing I'd say here, is that the Butterfly dimensions would have you believe that the RD/ST handle was bigger than the SQ/ST (marginally) - But I don't find that to be the case when held in hand. The SQ/ST feels ever so slightly thicker, due to the more pronounced edges. ...

    Completely agree. I expected the Boll ALC straight handle would feel smaller than the Viscaria straight, but turned out to be the reverse for the reason you describe. Useful to know for anyone choosing between similar blades.

    Might be impossible to answer as you're using heavier rubber now, but do you think the larger head size of the Ovtcharov changes the balance much compared to the Boll?


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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Evil

    Completely agree. I expected the Boll ALC straight handle would feel smaller than the Viscaria straight, but turned out to be the reverse for the reason you describe. Useful to know for anyone choosing between similar blades.

    Might be impossible to answer as you're using heavier rubber now, but do you think the larger head size of the Ovtcharov changes the balance much compared to the Boll?

    Not really - If I closed my eyes and hit some shots, I think I'd be hard pushed to tell.

    If you are incredibly sensitive to balance and weight distribution, then perhaps - But I'd be incredibly surprised if anyone really noticed it.

    On the handle side..... The RD/ST handle allows for more tweaks to the grip, because it's virtually the same all around.

    The SQ/ST handle really forces your hand into a set place - Both are fine for me, but it should be a consideration for others who haven't experienced it before!

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    #20

    Thanks for your review, it is much appreciated. I see that you are comparing this blade with different blades that you have had in the past. I would like to ask your personal preference after trying those blades, which blade would you pick if you had only one choice and why?


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