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  1. Littledragonman7 is offline
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    #501
    Quote Originally Posted by Brs
    Brs;376978

    Greetings Brs,

    didn't think of playing this guy as you suggested

    after viewing my video a few times & all the feedbacks, i recognize tactically i played poorly 😢

    I am always so focused on producing high-spin on each shot I forgot about jst counter w/ little or no spin, rather place the ball & contacting the ball earlier

    thanks for another drill to train (and play) 🏓

    i am looking forward to playing this guy again

    happy pinga ponga 💪

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  2. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    #502
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    I've posted here because of Ritchie, and his explicit invitation. And I gave Like to Lula, because it was freshly afterwards, and he said what I thought. I have no intention of further posting to this thread. But I'd like to hit with you :-)
    I do think it would be fun to hit with you.

    I think you have posted footage in the Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat thread which is really not that different but with a wider scope. And if I am wrong I seem to remember you sending me footage in a PM. But I think you could only benefit from posting footage here. And I would be fine with you commenting in the thread if you had done that. But your comment was good and so it was a fine comment. There are a few other people who have commented recently.

    I just would say, people will know you better if you do post footage. There is really no downside to posting footage if people behave when commenting.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  3. latej is offline
    says Khabib: Let's talk now. (Best satisfaction in 3 years.)
     
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    #503
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    I do think it would be fun to hit with you.

    I think you have posted footage in the Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat thread which is really not that different but with a wider scope. And if I am wrong I seem to remember you sending me footage in a PM. But I think you could only benefit from posting footage here. And I would be fine with you commenting in the thread if you had done that. But your comment was good and so it was a fine comment. There are a few other people who have commented recently.

    I just would say, people will know you better if you do post footage. There is really no downside to posting footage if people behave when commenting.
    I sent a video of myself via PM to some people, yes. It was about 2 years ago and I didn't make a video of myself since. I don't think I posted a video of myself to DTTChitChat though. I've made my mind clear about it long time ago. I won't send a video of myself to public space. I'd like to meet the people, play, and actually, I wouldn't mind being recorded during such meetup at all. You can call it strange, but that's how I have it.

    But perhaps you've internally guessed that, that I have another issue. Even if I decided to make a video of myself and post it, I'd not post it to this thread. There is a division between those who can, and those who can't post. And that's what I dislike. I know the goal is honorable, people should feel safe, but imo, they should be protected the same, regardless if they post here or in some other thread, and in my, you know, balance, the one out-weights the other. In your balance, it is the other way. It's probably delicate.

    I do think this thread has its good use though. People post, it's all right. No hard feeling. It's just my opinion. It will pass :-)

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    #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Littledragonman7
    Attached is my 7/31/SUN RR match (7:37) I lost 0 - 3

    Seeking feedback to what worked, what I should try next time & any glaring weaknesses need to work on, thank you

    https://youtu.be/-iUJD2pldu8

    In my humble opinion, this is a good match by you and a good opponent for you to play against. You can make your forehand better by improving the technique, but the overall approach was sound and I liked the way you kept your rhythm. If you had a good kill shot, this would have been no contest. And you could develop a killshot over time by knowing how to flatten out your shot/smash with the right timing. Or just learn to place the ball better and hit to three points of the table or sometimes learn to loop with sidespin - your topspin oriented stroke just let him place the bat there but with sidespin, people need to read angles sometimes so you get more blocks into the net - bad habits sure, but we aren't going to be Ma Long.

    As BRS pointed out, you need a practiced finishing shot of some sort (if you want it to be a topspin, you have to place it better - looping to the middle of the right and left courts on table in practice is okay, but in matches you need to make people move with your loops, either by hitting them in awkward spots to the middle or making them move. That's what's missing from your game, you have the topspin stroke, but you aren't placing it deliberately and consistently.

    You need to work on and believe in your backhand topspin even when you think you are off the table. Don't float the ball, play a topspin and lose the the point! At some point it will start going in. The backhand topspin is usually spinnier than the forehand topspin so it causes all kinds of trouble when you land it from off the table.

    You had some really good finishing points, but you didn't play like that all the time and you didn't respect his block and make him move - you kept expecting his block to fail but you need to realize that unless you are making people move and vary the quality of the ball, once they read your ball quality, they just need to put the bat there. You need to make the move so that putting the bat there is harder because the angles are hard to maintain when force to move.

    But I really like this and hope you can play this way - I don't think this guy will be beating you in a year, but that said, sometimes when you get better, they get better against you. But I still think he is not going to beat you if you continue in the style you continue playing so above all else, work on placement patterns but work on having options when the ball slows down to put the ball to 3 points on the table. The three points on the table strategy allows you to make the opponent commit with a shot to the middle and the fall apart when forced to move wide.

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    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

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    #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Littledragonman7

    Greetings Brs,

    didn't think of playing this guy as you suggested

    after viewing my video a few times & all the feedbacks, i recognize tactically i played poorly 😢

    I am always so focused on producing high-spin on each shot I forgot about jst counter w/ little or no spin, rather place the ball & contacting the ball earlier

    thanks for another drill to train (and play) 🏓

    i am looking forward to playing this guy again

    happy pinga ponga 💪

    You did the right thing, if you can't produce the spin, you don't know how to vary it and place it, so it is step by step! Your play in that video was encouraging and showed a path to serious TT, your future is bright, it is easier to teach someone who plays topspin like you do to move the ball around or to vary their contact point to make the ball go wider with sidespin (really side topspin) than to teach someone who doesn't topspin how to stay consistent in the face of tough opponents. Now you have the base, you can now add some stuff to it, and you have a good opponent to keep you motivated until you get to the next level!

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    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

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    #506

    You can make your forehand better by improving the technique, but the overall approach was sound and I liked the way you kept your rhythm
    => NL, thank you for giving my video a watch & be encouraging, I AM HOPEFUL!
    => after the match, i remember sitting on the stage in the back & said to myself ... "man, i can't go through this guy" "what else can i do?"
    => ironically, his nick-name is "the wall"

    If you had a good kill shot, this would have been no contest. And you could develop a killshot over time by knowing how to flatten out your shot/smash with the right timing or just learn to place the ball better and hit to three points of the table or sometimes learn to loop with sidespin
    => man NL, there are a lot of golden nuggets here ... flatten out kill-shot, early timing (Brs), 3-point placement, loop side-spin
    => i watched the video of you vs waltrip, he did vary his FH top-spin vs you AND he does have a descent side-spin shot
    => i am going to ask der to show me how to loop side-spin the next time we train


    As BRS pointed out, you need a practiced finishing shot of some sort (if you want it to be a topspin, you have to place it better - looping to the middle of the right and left courts on table in practice is okay, but in matches you need to make people move with your loops, either by hitting them in awkward spots to the middle or making them move. That's what's missing from your game, you have the topspin stroke, but you aren't placing it deliberately and consistently.
    => 10-4 NL; even my wife (doesn't do any sports) noticed he was just standing there, not moving much & i was doing all the heavy-lifting
    => at times (still), i am so concerned with what i should be doing, i have a hard time paying attention to what the other's doing i.e. in this case, he was just standing there ... I NEED TO MOVE HIS @$$ (3 point placement or aim at his hip)


    You need to work on and believe in your backhand topspin even when you think you are off the table. Don't float the ball, play a topspin and lose the the point! At some point it will start going in.
    => you know NL, there are different ways to saying the samething ... you communicate constructively, encouraging & builds me up 👍
    => QUESTION: what do you mean by "float the ball?"

    The backhand topspin is usually spinnier than the forehand topspin so it causes all kinds of trouble when you land it from off the table
    => interesting ... from time to time, i do noticed BH top is generally spinnier than FH top


    You had some really good finishing points, but you didn't play like that all the time and you didn't respect his block and make him move - you kept expecting his block to fail but you need to realize that unless you are making people move and vary the quality of the ball, once they read your ball quality, they just need to put the bat there. You need to make the move so that putting the bat there is harder because the angles are hard to maintain when force to move
    => loud & clear NL; freaking amazing you saw all that ... i mean i 100% fully understand what you mean, so ...
    => i am going to work on my FH 3-point placement, Kill-shot (bat angle & timing) AND BH loop BIG TIME
    => i am confident in a year, i will take this guy

    But I really like this and hope you can play this way - I don't think this guy will be beating you in a year, but that said, sometimes when you get better, they get better against you. But I still think he is not going to beat you if you continue in the style you continue playing so above all else, work on placement patterns but work on having options when the ball slows down to put the ball to 3 points on the table. The three points on the table strategy allows you to make the opponent commit with a shot to the middle and the fall apart when forced to move wide
    => a prime example of you building me up instead of tearing me down, telling me to play tactically smarter (variety) in an encouraging way instead telling me everything negative, what i was doing wrong, thank you NL
    => today was a recovery day - I am ready to do work, back at it tomorrow, I AM EXCITED knowing what i should practice on

    You did the right thing, if you can't produce the spin, you don't know how to vary it and place it, so it is step by step!
    => i feel like i have a road-map to adding VARIETY to my game

    Your play in that video was encouraging and showed a path to serious TT, your future is bright, it is easier to teach someone who plays topspin like you do to move the ball around or to vary their contact point to make the ball go wider with sidespin (really side topspin) than to teach someone who doesn't topspin how to stay consistent in the face of tough opponents. Now you have the base, you can now add some stuff to it, and you have a good opponent to keep you motivated until you get to the next level!
    => LOL 🤣, pun intended? haha ... l8ter NL

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  7. NextLevel is offline
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    #507
    Quote Originally Posted by Littledragonman7

    You can make your forehand better by improving the technique, but the overall approach was sound and I liked the way you kept your rhythm
    => NL, thank you for giving my video a watch & be encouraging, I AM HOPEFUL!
    => after the match, i remember sitting on the stage in the back & said to myself ... "man, i can't go through this guy" "what else can i do?"
    => ironically, his nick-name is "the wall"

    If you had a good kill shot, this would have been no contest. And you could develop a killshot over time by knowing how to flatten out your shot/smash with the right timing or just learn to place the ball better and hit to three points of the table or sometimes learn to loop with sidespin
    => man NL, there are a lot of golden nuggets here ... flatten out kill-shot, early timing (Brs), 3-point placement, loop side-spin
    => i watched the video of you vs waltrip, he did vary his FH top-spin vs you AND he does have a descent side-spin shot
    => i am going to ask der to show me how to loop side-spin the next time we train


    As BRS pointed out, you need a practiced finishing shot of some sort (if you want it to be a topspin, you have to place it better - looping to the middle of the right and left courts on table in practice is okay, but in matches you need to make people move with your loops, either by hitting them in awkward spots to the middle or making them move. That's what's missing from your game, you have the topspin stroke, but you aren't placing it deliberately and consistently.
    => 10-4 NL; even my wife (doesn't do any sports) noticed he was just standing there, not moving much & i was doing all the heavy-lifting
    => at times (still), i am so concerned with what i should be doing, i have a hard time paying attention to what the other's doing i.e. in this case, he was just standing there ... I NEED TO MOVE HIS @$$ (3 point placement or aim at his hip)


    You need to work on and believe in your backhand topspin even when you think you are off the table. Don't float the ball, play a topspin and lose the the point! At some point it will start going in.
    => you know NL, there are different ways to saying the samething ... you communicate constructively, encouraging & builds me up 👍
    => QUESTION: what do you mean by "float the ball?"

    The backhand topspin is usually spinnier than the forehand topspin so it causes all kinds of trouble when you land it from off the table
    => interesting ... from time to time, i do noticed BH top is generally spinnier than FH top


    You had some really good finishing points, but you didn't play like that all the time and you didn't respect his block and make him move - you kept expecting his block to fail but you need to realize that unless you are making people move and vary the quality of the ball, once they read your ball quality, they just need to put the bat there. You need to make the move so that putting the bat there is harder because the angles are hard to maintain when force to move
    => loud & clear NL; freaking amazing you saw all that ... i mean i 100% fully understand what you mean, so ...
    => i am going to work on my FH 3-point placement, Kill-shot (bat angle & timing) AND BH loop BIG TIME
    => i am confident in a year, i will take this guy

    But I really like this and hope you can play this way - I don't think this guy will be beating you in a year, but that said, sometimes when you get better, they get better against you. But I still think he is not going to beat you if you continue in the style you continue playing so above all else, work on placement patterns but work on having options when the ball slows down to put the ball to 3 points on the table. The three points on the table strategy allows you to make the opponent commit with a shot to the middle and the fall apart when forced to move wide
    => a prime example of you building me up instead of tearing me down, telling me to play tactically smarter (variety) in an encouraging way instead telling me everything negative, what i was doing wrong, thank you NL
    => today was a recovery day - I am ready to do work, back at it tomorrow, I AM EXCITED knowing what i should practice on

    You did the right thing, if you can't produce the spin, you don't know how to vary it and place it, so it is step by step!
    => i feel like i have a road-map to adding VARIETY to my game

    Your play in that video was encouraging and showed a path to serious TT, your future is bright, it is easier to teach someone who plays topspin like you do to move the ball around or to vary their contact point to make the ball go wider with sidespin (really side topspin) than to teach someone who doesn't topspin how to stay consistent in the face of tough opponents. Now you have the base, you can now add some stuff to it, and you have a good opponent to keep you motivated until you get to the next level!
    => LOL 🤣, pun intended? haha ... l8ter NL

    There was a blocker I played a lot at tournaments (and don't get me wrong, he was pretty good at blocking because he hit with a lot of high level players and used really fast rackets). Even when I outrated him by 500 points as a 2000+ playing a 1500 player, I almost always lost the first game in tournament matches against him because I kept trying to pound him like King Kong rather than play smart. I always beat him badly after losing the first game, but I think I may have not lost that first game maybe once out of all the times I played him. After the first game, I always humbled myself because there is no pride in losing. But I always liked to believe that there was a level where it wouldn't matter. I never got to that level.

    So trust me, when it comes to trying to outloop a good blocker and struggling (and I gave the example where I won, not one of the numerous high level blockers where I had no chance) - been there, done that!

    The good thing is that you made a lot of loops in a row - never underestimate the importance of that. The key thing is that the topspin is supposed to get you the high ball to drive through the table and when you back up a bit too much and don't have power, you are putting yourself in a hole. But even if you have to loop a few times, nothing wrong with that, you just have take a tad bit more risk and loop to make the opponent move.

    Anyways, written a lot. You have the spin, you just have to know where to place the ball and set up the opponent a bit better and add a few more skills. More serve variety as well - some backspin vs no spin variation does a lot vs blockers.

    As for making him move, you have to understand the angle of play and what the possibilities are for playing the ball wide from where you stand so you understand what makes a player move or makes them slow to react. You can only go to the extreme wide forehand from the forehand side of the table so you often need a hook shot forehand. But since you are just starting, I would encourage you to learn to loop the first ball into the body. It is a difficult skill but it will make life a lot easier for you because it is harder to master the longer you play.

    Last edited by NextLevel; 08-02-2022 at 04:51 AM.
    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

  8. Gozo is online now
    says May the Spin be with you!
     
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    #508

    Hi all,

    This is my latest match play. Some commentary to provide the context:

    1. This is the first time I play an AWAY game since the cancellation of COVID lockdown.
    2. I came 1.5 hr earlier to check out this alien venue and hit some balls with the other side's players.
    3. My opponent is a young boy who is also my state current U10 runner-up.
    4. It was a joy to play with him. His shots are fast and his BH is insanely spinny. His BH put me to shame.
    5. I won the 2nd & 4th set of a best of five match. The last match score was 11-9 in his favour. I just made too many unforced error. The final score is 3-2 in my opponent's favour.

    NB: For those EJ dudes out-there, I am using Tibhar's MX-P on my FH & Donic's Bluefire M2 on my BH. Blade is a custom made 10.5mm thick one ply hinoki during this match.
    Last edited by Gozo; 08-13-2022 at 04:03 PM.

  9. Gozo is online now
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    #509
    I have a issue that I seek advise from coaches here or tournament organizers.

    I met a player who is an elderly gentleman who uses conventional rubber on FH and LP on BH. It is not easy to take his service. However, to make things even worse, his serve are all without any toss at all. I protested a few times to him but he still continue to serve all the no toss ball. I also made it known to the organizer about this issue. They just verbally told him not to do it. However, he still continue to serve no-toss.

    By the 4th set, I stopped the game and voiced my final protest to the organizer and gave him a walkover. In a sense, I created a scene. Later, my team-mates told me I should not have done that as we are guest and this is just a friendly match.

    In my defence, I concur it is pointless to continue as I could not take his serves and felt that he has all the unfair advantages and all my protest are not rectified.

    My question is, did I over-react? Am I being too harsh on the other player since this is only an amateur inter-club friendly as mentioned to me by my fellow club-mate. What do you guys think?

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  10. PingBirdPong is offline
    says Verified Cheater, Banned by ITTF :)
     
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    #510
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo
    I have a issue that I seek advise from coaches here or tournament organizers.

    I met a player who is an elderly gentleman who uses conventional rubber on FH and LP on BH. It is not easy to take his service. However, to make things even worse, his serve are all without any toss at all. I protested a few times to him but he still continue to serve all the no toss ball. I also made it known to the organizer about this issue. They just verbally told him not to do it. However, he still continue to serve no-toss.

    By the 4th set, I stopped the game and voiced my final protest to the organizer and gave him a walkover. In a sense, I created a scene. Later, my team-mates told me I should not have done that as we are guest and this is just a friendly match.

    In my defence, I concur it is pointless to continue as I could not take his serves and felt that he has all the unfair advantages and all my protest are not rectified.

    My question is, did I over-react? Am I being too harsh on the other player since this is only an amateur inter-club friendly as mentioned to me by my fellow club-mate. What do you guys think?
    Apologies for my unauthorized comment.
    I think if it’s for fun, and they clearly don’t want to follow the rules, then play for fun! It doesn’t reflect on your skill at all to play against a cheater, so there really isn’t anything to lose.
    If you really want to hold the belief for fair play, that’s honorable! Finish the set and refuse to play anymore. It’s your choice either way.

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    #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo
    I have a issue that I seek advise from coaches here or tournament organizers.

    I met a player who is an elderly gentleman who uses conventional rubber on FH and LP on BH. It is not easy to take his service. However, to make things even worse, his serve are all without any toss at all. I protested a few times to him but he still continue to serve all the no toss ball. I also made it known to the organizer about this issue. They just verbally told him not to do it. However, he still continue to serve no-toss.

    By the 4th set, I stopped the game and voiced my final protest to the organizer and gave him a walkover. In a sense, I created a scene. Later, my team-mates told me I should not have done that as we are guest and this is just a friendly match.

    In my defence, I concur it is pointless to continue as I could not take his serves and felt that he has all the unfair advantages and all my protest are not rectified.

    My question is, did I over-react? Am I being too harsh on the other player since this is only an amateur inter-club friendly as mentioned to me by my fellow club-mate. What do you guys think?

    I don't think you over-reacted, you actually didn't react fast enough, why did you wait for 4th set? For me it is not fun at all when my oponent serves this way and I don't see why anyone should take part in this even if it is just friendly match, it is just waste of time and efforts. The only possible situation when I don't mind this, is when I'm sure that I'm going to win even with this kind of server. Otherwise, I often start catching the ball after every serve and asking him to serve again, when my opponent doesn't understand warnings. Usually, they start serving more properly for 3-4 serves, then it might happen again. This also might make him angry. Anyway doesn't sound like very friendly behaviour but I don't see any other way to force them serve within rules.

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    #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo

    Hi all,

    This is my latest match play. Some commentary to provide the context:

    1. This is the first time I play an AWAY game since the cancellation of COVID lockdown.
    2. I came 1.5 hr earlier to check out this alien venue and hit some balls with the other side's players.
    3. My opponent is a young boy who is also my state current U10 runner-up.
    4. It was a joy to play with him. His shots are fast and his BH is insanely spinny. His BH put me to shame.
    5. I won the 2nd & 4th set of a best of five match. The last match score was 11-9 in his favour. I just made too many unforced error. The final score is 3-2 in my opponent's favour.

    NB: For those EJ dudes out-there, I am using Tibhar's MX-P on my FH & Donic's Bluefire M2 on my BH. Blade is a custom made 10.5mm thick one ply hinoki during this match.
    Since I’m not allowed to comment the game I won’t, but how the hell could you play that venue the lighting is horrible…

    Cheers
    L-zr

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    #513
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo
    I have a issue that I seek advise from coaches here or tournament organizers.

    I met a player who is an elderly gentleman who uses conventional rubber on FH and LP on BH. It is not easy to take his service. However, to make things even worse, his serve are all without any toss at all. I protested a few times to him but he still continue to serve all the no toss ball. I also made it known to the organizer about this issue. They just verbally told him not to do it. However, he still continue to serve no-toss.

    By the 4th set, I stopped the game and voiced my final protest to the organizer and gave him a walkover. In a sense, I created a scene. Later, my team-mates told me I should not have done that as we are guest and this is just a friendly match.

    In my defence, I concur it is pointless to continue as I could not take his serves and felt that he has all the unfair advantages and all my protest are not rectified.

    My question is, did I over-react? Am I being too harsh on the other player since this is only an amateur inter-club friendly as mentioned to me by my fellow club-mate. What do you guys think?

    It is a mixed bag. I won't pretend to be a guy who hasn't lost a lot of matches using what I now consider the wrong mindset to approach illegal serving. I will remind people that table tennis is very cognitive, both technically and psychologically. Experience is the best teacher. So your behavior is not unusual or unwarranted. I would like to recommend to you a different path.

    What you find (and I learned this with years of play) is that if you are struggling with *anyone's* serve, is that with more exposure, as long as you don't let the opponent's play bother you, you will get better at picking up cues and tricks to return the serve assuming that you are both in roughly the same strength or experience level or that you are even the better player. If the opponent is a better and far more experienced player, it wouldn't really matter how they served, other than in terms of massaging your ego.

    Unfortunately, if you complain about how the person is serving and focus on that rather than focusing on your play and keeping the right competitive attitude to read the serve, then your play against the serve never gets better and you fail to adjust your game to the pressure and you will lose without really fighting meaningfully. Because your play when it is your own serve will also fall apart and as your whole game falls apart while you focus on the illegal serves from your opponent, you just can't really compete.

    Again, the above is a lesson based on 10 years of competitive experience playing as an adult learner. I had days when I took your attitude, but also sometimes remembered that there was a whole era when you were not even allowed to see the serve and when illegal serves based on today's rules were not illegal at all based on past rules.

    One of the good things about sports competition, especially the psychological aspects, is that it gives you a chance to practice the powerful tool of reframing, sometimes based on evidence, sometimes regardless of the evidence. My main coaching influence used to tell me that when he served, he often imagined his opponent putting the serve in the net. I used to think that was silly - why imagine that? But over time, I realized that it wasn't really about whether it was true that the serve would be returned badly or not. It was really about putting yourself into the mental state that doesn't make you panic when facing your opponent. Because in the right mental state that helps you play your best TT (which could be a panicky attitude for some individuals in theory), you give yourself the best chance. Of course, some best mental states are too hard to keep up for long (being to wired and anxious, even if it is your best mental state, may be hard to keep up for long and may have other problems).

    Long story short - find stories and mental states that enable you to play your best table tennis even when things are not working in your favor. I personally would only complain when there was an umpire, and even then, I lost enough matches after complaining to umpires to realize that you just need to dig in and focus on the match. There was a time when most illegal serves were legal. Just try to win the match and if you don't, have fun and learn something. Thankfully, we play TT for fun and grow as individuals.

    Let me put it another way - let's say you played TT for money and the pressure was different - would you really forfeit that match rather than figure out how to improve against illegal serves? Imagine what that would mean to many professionals who routinely face hidden serves. But maybe you would just forfeit it on principle - good for you. But again, go back to the principle of what you need to play your best TT. It often helps to you make good decisions about where you want your game to go and puts the responsibility back where it belongs, even if we acknowledge that no one does it alone.

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    #514
    My take on this is very close to NL's only shorter.

    You think the old man is causing you to suffer by serving illegally. Really you are causing your own suffering by getting upset about it, trying to change it, and feeling mistreated by everyone. This is not a nice feeling.

    If you could accept that the old man will serve illegally you would not suffer in any way.

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  15. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #515
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo

    Hi all,

    This is my latest match play. Some commentary to provide the context:

    1. This is the first time I play an AWAY game since the cancellation of COVID lockdown.
    2. I came 1.5 hr earlier to check out this alien venue and hit some balls with the other side's players.
    3. My opponent is a young boy who is also my state current U10 runner-up.
    4. It was a joy to play with him. His shots are fast and his BH is insanely spinny. His BH put me to shame.
    5. I won the 2nd & 4th set of a best of five match. The last match score was 11-9 in his favour. I just made too many unforced error. The final score is 3-2 in my opponent's favour.

    NB: For those EJ dudes out-there, I am using Tibhar's MX-P on my FH & Donic's Bluefire M2 on my BH. Blade is a custom made 10.5mm thick one ply hinoki during this match.
    One thing I notice that, Gozo, would be worth you looking at is: when the kid hits a topspin shot that hits the net and bounces back from the net and onto the table, you can see it has good spin and gets pulled towards the net fairly fast (there are some where this is not the case, but usually they have good spin). When you hit a "topspin" shot into the net and it does the same, the ones I have seen in the first two sets of the video, there is not so much spin.


    It just might be worth knowing that working on developing more spin is usually good for increasing your level.

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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 08-14-2022 at 01:33 AM.
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    #516
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel

    It is a mixed bag......

    Quote Originally Posted by Brs
    My take on this is very close to NL's only shorter......
    Both NextLevel and Brs's comments are excellent.

    For me, the mental state that helped me most with the issue of illegal serves was thinking of it as a learning opportunity to try and get better at returning them. That also gave me the mindset to experiment and try things I might not otherwise in a match....there are always many ways of returning any serve. Trying things out in that circumstance, even unconventional returns, could help your play in the long run.

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    #517
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Both NextLevel and Brs's comments are excellent.

    For me, the mental state that helped me most with the issue of illegal serves was thinking of it as a learning opportunity to try and get better at returning them. That also gave me the mindset to experiment and try things I might not otherwise in a match....there are always many ways of returning any serve. Trying things out in that circumstance, even unconventional returns, could help your play in the long run.

    I answered the way I did because some people do not realize that for some older players, you are forcing them to adjust to serve rules that did not exist when they played most of their matches. That doesn't completely excuse illegal serving, but it helps to put it in context. So I don't like people using the words cheat especially when the players involved are much older. I mean, it isn't completely unfair in some instances, but like I said, some things were legal for a long long time.

    Moreover, the serving rules are so complicated that even some people who get indignant about illegal serving actually have illegal serves. I do think that one time I called an umpire, I got called for serving illegally. And some people have complained about my serves at various times even when I thought I was a completely clean server.

    I lost a state championship finals against an illegal server and called for an umpire but there was none so I lost badly and one of the comments someone made after the match was that he felt I was a good enough player to win the match if I hadn't let that get to me, but I had only played for a year or a half or so at that point. The funny thing was that the next year, after I had improved past that level, the same guy (a sandbagger of sorts, but not an extreme one), got back to the final in that category but this time, there was an umpire who faulted him for his serves until he just quit playing.

    I have even funnier stories of struggling against perfectly legal serves. For a long time, I had no clue how to do anything but push side-topspin serves into my short forehand and it left me looking like an idiot even in matches where I was by far the higher rated player. But I don't want to get into those stories. Every player struggles with receiving serves well at their level - it is why defusing the third ball attack is relatively difficult amongst two players of equal level.

    Long story short: I don't want to pretend to be a saint on this issue. I evolved to a point whereby I embraced the struggle in table tennis. When you are struggling, you have to adjust and solve problems.

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  18. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #518
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel

    I answered the way I did because some people do not realize that for some older players, you are forcing them to adjust to serve rules that did not exist when they played most of their matches. That doesn't completely excuse illegal serving, but it helps to put it in context. So I don't like people using the words cheat especially when the players involved are much older. I mean, it isn't completely unfair in some instances, but like I said, some things were legal for a long long time.

    Moreover, the serving rules are so complicated that even some people who get indignant about illegal serving actually have illegal serves. I do think that one time I called an umpire, I got called for serving illegally. And some people have complained about my serves at various times even when I thought I was a completely clean server.

    I lost a state championship finals against an illegal server and called for an umpire but there was none so I lost badly and one of the comments someone made after the match was that he felt I was a good enough player to win the match if I hadn't let that get to me, but I had only played for a year or a half or so at that point. The funny thing was that the next year, after I had improved past that level, the same guy (a sandbagger of sorts, but not an extreme one), got back to the final in that category but this time, there was an umpire who faulted him for his serves until he just quit playing.

    I have even funnier stories of struggling against perfectly legal serves. For a long time, I had no clue how to do anything but push side-topspin serves into my short forehand and it left me looking like an idiot even in matches where I was by far the higher rated player. But I don't want to get into those stories. Every player struggles with receiving serves well at their level - it is why defusing the third ball attack is relatively difficult amongst two players of equal level.

    Long story short: I don't want to pretend to be a saint on this issue. I evolved to a point whereby I embraced the struggle in table tennis. When you are struggling, you have to adjust and solve problems.

    Agree fully.
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    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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  19. Gozo is online now
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    #519
    Hello to all those who responded to my post. Massive massive appreciation and thanks.

    To give a little bit more context, when I played the elderly man, in the first set I beat him 11-4. He was using the conventional rubber mainly to serve in the first game. Although he did not toss the ball, I struggled a bit but I still was able to play my game. It was the 2nd & 3rd set that he changed his serve using the LP side while still maintaining the no toss serve that really messed me up. Yes, I was feeling frustrated and unhappy that I missed a lot of his serves.

    I did talk to my coach about this and he concur with my club mate. This is just a friendly match and it does not really matter if you win or lose. He told me, a friendly match most important aspect is just to make friends / be social. I guess, I am still new to these tournament and approached it the wrong way mentally. I now understand better and will be less judgemental in the future.

  20. Gozo is online now
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    #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    Since I’m not allowed to comment the game I won’t, but how the hell could you play that venue the lighting is horrible…

    Cheers
    L-zr
    L-zr old pal,

    It is an AWAY game and I am in no position to change anything. Luckily I arrived 90mins earlier to adapt and stroke with the players there to get myself in the ready mood.

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