Video Footage Safe Thread

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It is a hard question. 6 hours a week is a good amount of.time. A lot of magic will be tied to things you may or may not control. So I will give a broad answer.

Ask your coach what his considered and honest goals for you are. You may not like the honest answer but only an honest coach who just doesn't want to take your money will give you an honest answer. What kind of player does he want to develop.you into? Why are you doing these drills and not some other drills? What does he want to aee before you do other drills? What are the elements of technique he wants you to get right etc.? What does he think multiball is improving for you?

He may have completely different answers from me and atill be a good coach. But a good coach will always be honest about what he has planned for you. Some coaches just don't know how to improve players. For me, I used to just let players train against my ball quality when I felt I couldn't do much for their technique. Or I would get them to read basic serves and make the first block of my first loop. But that kind of coaching is harder than multiball. But it helps players at all levels in terms of match play because even if they suck at doing what I described, it is still training them in the context of how a point evolves. In doing so, I would try to tell them what cues to pick up to tell where the ball was going or how to think about the right technical approach in the context of what we were working on.and to not wait until the ball got to their side before they prepared their stroke.

Tactics are always in the context of the specific details of a table tennis point. Strategy requires the coach to.have a vision of how he wants you to play. High level tactical or strategic advice is completely meaningless absent the ability to implement it based on experience and training.

Some broader tips for TT improvement

The first thing is patience. You are going to get better if you hit or play with better players whether you improve your technique or not because a lot of table tennis is reading spin and anticipating ball placement and being able to touch the ball and control it. Thia gets better with time.

The next thing is to find good players who are willing to feed your passion. One good friend at a decent level with decent technique and willing to hit with you will do more for you than lots of hours of coaching because the friend will usually watch you and show you things and be empathetic. A good club is a similar benefit. It is hard to improve outside a good relationship with other better players.

When doing drills with a coach, focus on serve and third ball (which many coaches will somewhat do) and receive (which many coaches are unfortunately reluctant to do - it is sad because serve return is extremely important) if a coach can teach you basic forehand and backhand strokes and how to use them to return serves to and attack weak returns, then that is most of the game. If you do multiball and your coach is not correcting your stroke, ask for feedback.

The harder part is how to move to the ball. Good footwork has technical aspects but the technical aspects are sometimes oversold and the conceptual framework is undersold. The conceptual framework is just to move the the ball in a way that allows you to be ready to hit it by the time it gets to you. Because the game gets faster, and you play better players, being able to anticipate and do this better is the basis of good footwork. Technical Footwork is probably the lowest priority thing for an adult beginner who isn't going to get really good but conceptual footwork is a must for every player. You should learn to move to the ball with your stroke prepared and develop ways of hiding your stroke or being equally ready to play multiple relevant shots depending on where the ball is placed. But this only makes sense when you have a good idea of how you use your legs to get into position to play the shots you need to play and how your legs affect the shots you want to play. Then over time you learn to play multiple shots out of superficially similar stances. But when you serve for example, you need to be ready for the return. That ability to connect shots is not tested by the drills you did in multiball. Even a bad serve and return drill is more match relevant.

too long didn't read - practice serve and attack and how to return serves with your basic strokes. Get friends who play at the level you want to play at and hang out with them. Learn to move with balance to the ball even if you don't do footwork drills. If you hang around good players and they hit with you, you will get better regardless of whatever else you do.

The problem with basic multiball is that it doesn't start a point the way most points start (with.a serve or a return), and it doesn't give you any feedback about the effect of your ball on the opponent. I get why coaches do it. But there are many coaches who also think it is useless and understanding why theh think so is more important than agreeing with them. A multiball drill is only as useful as the skill it is testing. It is like solving basic algebraic equations and expecting them to translate into solving engineering problems under pressure without really practicing solving engineering problems.

Matches force you to anticipate and move etc. in practice people are sometimes having fun hitting to each other. In matches, people are trying to make you miss and move. So connecting the physical skills of multiball to the tactical and mental aspects of matchplay needs to be done to make it match relevant. Otherwise it is possibly good exercise but the correlation to winning matches is not that high.

Thanks again for the very thoughtful response - I really appreciate the help.

I find myself struggling with the coach piece of this puzzle - being brutally honest, he's a nice guy and a decent player and I enjoy the sessions - but I have observed that nothing is pre-prepared or planned and is very much done on the fly with much repetition between sessions. I have no doubt improved my ability to react and move through this fairly fast multi ball, but the big issue I have with it is that my technique slowly but surely falls apart as I get more and more tired and find myself struggling to keep up with the seemingly never ending balls coming at me. It is without doubt more of a fitness drill than a technical one.

I feel I would benefit more by him serving at me and me serving to him and working up a third ball approach or 5th ball. I am not sure how he will react to this - he is the coach after all..

My challenge with club play is that the one session I go to tends to see me pair up with one player in particular who is around my standard and loves to play with me - we hit for 3h but it tends to be very drive dominated. This player is not the standard I aspire to be nor is he technically strong. The other club session is a very helpful 2h coaching session with lots of pre-planned drills, changing player after each one (3 ball, 5 ball, push etc) - ironically all set up by the same coach I then have my one to one with.

So I probably need to change the one club session and find some better players to work with - not easy as most of them don't come to the club sessions and if they do they play only with the other top players!

Nonetheless I feel some clarity is emerging.

P

 
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I'm very interested in this training plan discussion. Thanks wrighty67 for bringing it up. Sorry for such a long ramble post, but maybe there is something in it worthwhile.

Multiball for me is a question of training time. At home I have 12 -14 hours a week for TT. Three hours one-on-one with a coach, three or four hours training with partners, and another few hours playing practice matches. No multiball.

A few weeks a year I take vacation and go to camps and play 5 - 7 hours a day, two training sessions and then matches in the evening. There it is normally two hours of multiball a day, because we have time. And it works reasonably well to identify a skill or two to work on, drill it with multiball in the morning, after lunch work the same things in single-ball exercises that are more point like, and then try to bring it into actual open play.

But there is a coach at my club whom I respect very much who does tons of multiball. And her players improve a lot. Like NL said it depends on the reasons and plan behind it, and the attention that you and the coach put into it. I also agree with NL that footwork is 'the lowest priority thing for an adult beginner who isn't going to get really good.' But for now it doesn't matter. First you learn each stroke from one position before you start adding movement, anything else will only slow your progress. The most common mistake I see people make is to move on too fast to advanced strokes and serves. People try to do chiquitas who don't have a stable backhand hit. We try to serve reverse pendulum and don't have a quality short backspin serve. It is insane how long it takes to learn the basics, and people get frustrated. It's understandable. But everything else is built on those basics. If yours are weak you will get stuck later and that is more frustrating. Here is a video that lays out some basic tests to see if you should move on from a skill. I doubt I would pass on the first attempt.

I'm an intermediate player with decent but not good technique. I still lose more points on my own errors than by having winners hit past me. So I'm focused on consistency and placement. In practice that puts a ton of pressure on footwork, and not building up tension through a very long rally. My one-to-ones go like this.
warmup fh-fh,
warmup bh-bh,
countertopspin fh-fh close to table,
one bh - one fh to his bh,
coach fh loops from his bh to my bh block,
bh-middle-fh-bh-middle-fh to his bh,
coach loops down the line to my bh block,
random number of bh-bh then he plays free I play all to his bh/middle,
he serves short free I push diagonal, he opens I counter fh or block bh, free.
So it goes from static, to semi-random, to full random like a typical practice design. The key to this training is we do every exercise except the last two randoms until I play one ball on the table 30 times. Then we move on. It can be the first ball of that exercise, or we can use a whole basket and have to start again. We started at 15 times, then 20, now 30. 30 touches is as high as we will get, now I try to raise the quality a tiny bit each time. This is absolutely ridiculous from a match simulation perspective. I will never play a real 60 shot rally in my life. But if I now miss two makeable balls out of ten where before I missed three of ten, that changes the result of any close match. There are also some psychological benefits from this because in training I sometimes get to 28 or 29 and miss. Or my coach misses. Either way it's annoying. But I have to forget it and go on, if I get upset I will be stuck on that one thing for the whole hour. This carries over to matches.

With partners I can't do that kind of training because we don't have the consistency. So a lot of time I do whatever they like to do, because I want them to keep training with me. One guy only wants to do serve and receive, which is the best. Other people I will try to train against their strength. One guy is very bh dominant so we do mostly bh to bh. Or I will ask what is your best serve? And we do third ball drills where I try to stop them from attacking off their best pattern. Rarely I find someone who doesn't mind feeling bad during practice, and we can go weakness vs weakness. With one guy I did a thing where we start from backspin and then free rally with both of us trying to hit the other guy's elbow/pocket every ball. That was horrible. It was like one uncomfortable ball after another with no rest for ten minutes. And the rallies were almost all damn short, as you can imagine. The worse you feel while doing a drill, probably the more you are getting out of it. If you feel great and like an excellent player doing an exercise, ask yourself how much are you really learning? And that's the root of my problem with multiball.

Finally back to you wrighty67, and your training plan for six hours a week. What is your priority in table tennis? Do you want to max out your highest level eventually? How discouraged will you get if you lose a lot of matches over a long time? If other people who started the same as you progress faster? How much effort and time do you want to put in, and what is realistically achievable within those limits?

If your goal is to win more matches sooner then I would focus very tightly on the first four balls. Pick a pair or two of serves, like straight backspin and no-spin, or backhand side-backspin and pure sidespin, and practice until they are very good. Learn to hit, push long, block, and fh loop vs backspin. This will give you some basic patterns like:
Serve no-spin get a pop-up and hit it
Serve backspin get a long push receive, if to your fh loop it, if to bh push it back
Receive with a long push, he pushes back if to your fh loop it, if to bh push it back
Receive with a long push, he loops, you block.

Train the hell out of those four basic patterns. In USATT terms this will get to you between a 1600 - 1800 rating depending on your shot quality and how much of the table you can cover with your forehand. You will win lots of matches that way. The downside is when you want to be better than usatt 1800 you may have to go backwards and learn some fundamentals you skipped earlier.

The other option is similar to the Chinese TT certification video. Spend a ton of time just on hitting properly. Then another ton of time on moving side-to side properly while you hit. And tons more on each tiny basic block because they all have to be solid and it takes a crazy amount of work. You can't win matches with only a hit, or any small set of skills. Opponents will simply avoid what you can do. You will lose a lot, and badly, for a long time. But once you learn a thing properly you won't have to go backwards later.

It's sort of a choice between very very slow progress and many losses early, but steady progress to whatever is your max level, or comparatively quick progress through the skills with some feel-good match success early, then a very tough plateau at intermediate level. Either one is mentally tough to take. The slow and steady way takes an almost unimaginable number hours of dedicated effort before you reach a decent level, and also some deliberate destruction of the ego. It's up to you which way suits you better.

Hi Ben

Thanks for the comprehensive reply and sharing your thoughts.

Your coaching sessions seem pretty positive and certainly some ideas for me to learn from here.

In terms of your questions around my ambitions - I guess the answer lies somewhere in the middle. I have aspitrations to play at a decent level in our local leagues and to be competitive and to reach my potential given my time and physical limitations. That having been said, I would also like to enjoy my playing and win some matches as I get better.

I would liken it to my guitar playing journey - as a classical player with limited time to practice I need to ensure I improve my technique but also enjoy learning and recording some pieces that give me pleasure and keep me coming back to lean in to the challenges.

It is important to me to be technically proficient and to have the basics in the right place but I have time limits I have to request if I want to stay married ;-)

Cheers

Peter

 
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Thanks again for the very thoughtful response - I really appreciate the help.

I find myself struggling with the coach piece of this puzzle - being brutally honest, he's a nice guy and a decent player and I enjoy the sessions - but I have observed that nothing is pre-prepared or planned and is very much done on the fly with much repetition between sessions. I have no doubt improved my ability to react and move through this fairly fast multi ball, but the big issue I have with it is that my technique slowly but surely falls apart as I get more and more tired and find myself struggling to keep up with the seemingly never ending balls coming at me. It is without doubt more of a fitness drill than a technical one.

I feel I would benefit more by him serving at me and me serving to him and working up a third ball approach or 5th ball. I am not sure how he will react to this - he is the coach after all..

My challenge with club play is that the one session I go to tends to see me pair up with one player in particular who is around my standard and loves to play with me - we hit for 3h but it tends to be very drive dominated. This player is not the standard I aspire to be nor is he technically strong. The other club session is a very helpful 2h coaching session with lots of pre-planned drills, changing player after each one (3 ball, 5 ball, push etc) - ironically all set up by the same coach I then have my one to one with.

So I probably need to change the one club session and find some better players to work with - not easy as most of them don't come to the club sessions and if they do they play only with the other top players!

Nonetheless I feel some clarity is emerging.

P

I wrote a whole article on this topic of hitting with better players on myTT a while back but basically, to get to practice with the better players, you need to learn the skills they love to practice against at a level that lets them hit with you (what you get in return is their attention and a chance to hit with their consistency, and that is all you should really ask for). If you learn to block and push the ball well, and you find a player who is willing to loop to your block for practice, or who is willing to serve to you so you can return his serve and practice his easier third balls, that is enough. Almost never seek to practice your offense against better players unless they let you do so because your inconsistency will usually make it no fun for them. But as an adult learner, blocking and ball control are valuable skills so working on those things in any context helps your improvement massively.

An underexplored route by some adults is working to improve with a group of juniors or working with much younger players. One of the reason I improved at my club was that there were two juniors who were training with the same coach at the same time so as they got better, and beat me up, I got better. When they were beginners, I used to beat them more and it was competitive so to speak. But a point came when they just became too good and it became more a matter of looking for moral victories and occasional blue moon wins. If you played the juniors (or even younger adults/teenagers) and became friends with them when you were better than them as beginners and were nice to them, the good and well mannered ones tend to be nice to you as they get better as well. Hitting with them may continue until they get too busy to spare time, but the value will always be there.

On the coach part: as I said, many coaches are just happy to get the title of coach and collect money. Some assume that if they do to you what they did to 20 juniors prior to you, you will improve just like the 20 prior juniors did, and some believe improving is magic or have lost their belief in adult improvement. Ultimately, you have to ask the coach the hard questions and take some control over your TT learning. Even in multiball, there are ways to simulate points, and simulating point sequences with multiball can help you improve your anticipation and footwork. Ultimately, you have to find the imperfect balance between being coached and being your own coach. There is no easily right answer, but there is an obvious wrong answer - to just assume that a coach is a good coach with your interests at heart because he is a better player. TT is really hard. I say this all the time to communicate the naivety with which most people approach table tennis vs. the deliberate attitude required to improve. You can improve by messing around, but you need to be doing some of the right things messing around and getting advice from good players while doing it. IT might require you to be like BRS and go to a camp for a week or two to get proper instruction and then coming out of that, it might be a bit easier to play and do things at a certain level. IT might require you to find a real coach who explains to you all the things that make table tennis hard and teaches you with that awareness so that you aren't stuck practicing just rally shots if you want to win matches.

TT improvement is really hard. My main message is that if you don't improve that much, don't beat up yourself over it. But if you want to give yourself a chance to improve, you need to be mentored or coached by someone who is invested in your progress.

 
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On the coach part: as I said, many coaches are just happy to get the title of coach and collect money.

I am a terrible professional coach, because I like to coach and not collect money for it. It doesn't make me a terrible adult coach though. :D
 
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I think atleast in Sweden that as a part time coach the money is not so much so can imagine that many that do it do enjoy it pretty much and do not only do it for the money.

I also think practice against players with lower level than you is underrated. Especially if you want to delelop the strokes. Feel like if you play against better opponents you need to focus so much energy on getting the ball on the table so hard to focus on the strokes. Lower level players spread the ball more so probably more functional if you want to play good in a match.

Of couse also good to play against better players. If you want the tempo i think fast multiball could work okey as well. Or compete more so you can play against better players that way.

As a coach i think it works well to let players of somwhat different levels play against eachother. If we make the exercise as hard as possible for the better player and easier for the lower level then the levels even out a bit. I think it works well to play like forehand loop from the middle, to everwhere against the better player or play forehand loop at basically all the table and focus on footwork and the lower level player block from one place.
 
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For me a good coach needs to plan sessions as part of a longer term planning cycle, these need to have a logical sequence based on goals and needs of the client.

The issue I have in my case is that I turn up and it’s clear the session has had no prior thought and is developed on the fly once I get there and with no real explanation of what the goals are. This means it’s left to me to derive what benefit I can from the sessions and take responsibility for them - I believe this should be a coaches role.
 
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Hi Wrighty

I want to try to help you because i've been taking a lot of coaching lessons through the years.

First thing i've got to say is I think im improving but in reality when I look at tournament results, its not obvious at all I'm improving. There is no miracle, it takes time to learn playing TT, especially when we start learning as adults. Children learn faster its a fact. and among adults, some are better at learning sports, some are better at learning programming or at learning a foreign language, thats a fact too.

I think it's important to believe that coaching is positive for you, to believe in your coach, to be patient, to work hard, but also to ENJOY every moment when training (with or without a coach) and enjoy competition whether winning or losing.

I think a good coach knows what you need to work on, but a lesson is quickly over. to make the most of your coaching, you must train seriously also when playing at your club, whoever it is you're playing with, and try to focus on every ball. you can't learn piano if you just train once a week with your teacher. you must make runs and arpeggios at home and many exercises, every day to get better. same with TT, you can train at home with shadow training, or just staying fit doing pushups, squats, jogging or whatever. or watch tutorial videos.

if i speak of my own training, with my usual coach, sometimes there is something special i want to work on and i do ask him, else he chooses for me. today the whole session was multiball because during the warmup he was not satisfied with my strokes. but multiball was something we weren't doing so much lately, although last summer for 2 months we did only multiball because he wanted me to correct my basic stroke technique. Thereafter we would do only a small part of the session as multiball or even no multiball at all and would quickly start working on receives or third ball attack for example.

There's so many things going on in TT, and during training its difficult to concentrate on everything at the same time. but general advice is to improve your stance, legs wide, upper body bent forward, head low, always keep on moving and bouncing, contract your abs, use the power of your legs, waist , arm, wrist... be relaxed, watch the ball, use the bounce of the ball for your timing, try to keep compact strokes, spin the ball, give a forward impulse on every stroke (drive should not be too vertical) , be aware of the opponent, focus on the timing and the hitzone, keep racket high, etc... too many things so try just one thing at a time

with so many things going on, TT is a real sport you should be sweating a lot and totally exhausted at the end of your session with your coach else you're not doing it correctly.

PS im taking it a bit further than you. theres plenty of TT schools and coaches here in Japan, and booking is very simple with internet, i can even book just one day in advance or the same day if the coach is available. so sometimes i just go to see different coaches because i know some are better at some things, like i sometimes go with a chopper, or another good at serves. or a cheaper coach who is very focused and blocks well which is excellent enough for footwork if im not too interested in technique. and its also good to have a second or third opinion and get extra motivation from a little change
 
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Hi Wrighty

I want to try to help you because i've been taking a lot of coaching lessons through the years.

First thing i've got to say is I think im improving but in reality when I look at tournament results, its not obvious at all I'm improving. There is no miracle, it takes time to learn playing TT, especially when we start learning as adults. Children learn faster its a fact. and among adults, some are better at learning sports, some are better at learning programming or at learning a foreign language, thats a fact too.

I think it's important to believe that coaching is positive for you, to believe in your coach, to be patient, to work hard, but also to ENJOY every moment when training (with or without a coach) and enjoy competition whether winning or losing.

I think a good coach knows what you need to work on, but a lesson is quickly over. to make the most of your coaching, you must train seriously also when playing at your club, whoever it is you're playing with, and try to focus on every ball. you can't learn piano if you just train once a week with your teacher. you must make runs and arpeggios at home and many exercises, every day to get better. same with TT, you can train at home with shadow training, or just staying fit doing pushups, squats, jogging or whatever. or watch tutorial videos.

if i speak of my own training, with my usual coach, sometimes there is something special i want to work on and i do ask him, else he chooses for me. today the whole session was multiball because during the warmup he was not satisfied with my strokes. but multiball was something we weren't doing so much lately, although last summer for 2 months we did only multiball because he wanted me to correct my basic stroke technique. Thereafter we would do only a small part of the session as multiball or even no multiball at all and would quickly start working on receives or third ball attack for example.

There's so many things going on in TT, and during training its difficult to concentrate on everything at the same time. but general advice is to improve your stance, legs wide, upper body bent forward, head low, always keep on moving and bouncing, contract your abs, use the power of your legs, waist , arm, wrist... be relaxed, watch the ball, use the bounce of the ball for your timing, try to keep compact strokes, spin the ball, give a forward impulse on every stroke (drive should not be too vertical) , be aware of the opponent, focus on the timing and the hitzone, keep racket high, etc... too many things so try just one thing at a time

with so many things going on, TT is a real sport you should be sweating a lot and totally exhausted at the end of your session with your coach else you're not doing it correctly.

PS im taking it a bit further than you. theres plenty of TT schools and coaches here in Japan, and booking is very simple with internet, i can even book just one day in advance or the same day if the coach is available. so sometimes i just go to see different coaches because i know some are better at some things, like i sometimes go with a chopper, or another good at serves. or a cheaper coach who is very focused and blocks well which is excellent enough for footwork if im not too interested in technique. and its also good to have a second or third opinion and get extra motivation from a little change

Thank you for the reply Takkyu - much appreciated.

I agree and certainly understand that TT is a tough sport and will take time - I learnt from a young age to play and so have some basics in place from that time at least.

I find it interesting that you mention multi ball to improve technique - my experience has been that multi ball is fast and tiring and that after maybe half the bucket, my technique falls apart as I focus instead don getting the ball back to where he wants it (in any way I can!)

I also feel it is unrealistic in terms of the shots I will have to return in a game.

Maybe we just need to slow it down, but that seems to be against what multi ball is all about - fast repeats.

 
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Thank you for the reply Takkyu - much appreciated.

I agree and certainly understand that TT is a tough sport and will take time - I learnt from a young age to play and so have some basics in place from that time at least.

I find it interesting that you mention multi ball to improve technique - my experience has been that multi ball is fast and tiring and that after maybe half the bucket, my technique falls apart as I focus instead don getting the ball back to where he wants it (in any way I can!)

I also feel it is unrealistic in terms of the shots I will have to return in a game.

Maybe we just need to slow it down, but that seems to be against what multi ball is all about - fast repeats.

I do a lot of multiball training, you can do it at all pace. usually we do a series at slow pace to warm-up and focus more on technique, then we can add speed, footwork and randomness

 
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Thank you for the reply Takkyu - much appreciated.

I agree and certainly understand that TT is a tough sport and will take time - I learnt from a young age to play and so have some basics in place from that time at least.

I find it interesting that you mention multi ball to improve technique - my experience has been that multi ball is fast and tiring and that after maybe half the bucket, my technique falls apart as I focus instead don getting the ball back to where he wants it (in any way I can!)

I also feel it is unrealistic in terms of the shots I will have to return in a game.

Maybe we just need to slow it down, but that seems to be against what multi ball is all about - fast repeats.

Hi Wrighty,

I'm not really approved to comment here, but I did actually play you a few weeks back in the local league! I was really impressed given the amount of time off you've had. Although your strokes did seem a bit stiff at the time, you were getting good spin and your forehand was pretty deadly when you relaxed into it and played a full stroke. I wouldn't get down at all about the recent tournament - if it was the county tournament, there were some really high quality players that practice every day and have done for years. I also heard it was a bit of a shambles with the seedings being all wrong eg...the finalist actually played each other in the group stage!

One thing to note about your coach is, he's a very good player but he does love his multi ball and as others have noticed, sometimes he's happy to just go through the motions with adults. I've known players to do 121 sessions for a year and not improve so I think playing with a variety of players at the club and getting used to some more unpredictable balls will help as well. I'm sure if you push him a little and have the conversation he'll be happy to work on whatever you need, but it might take you raising the question to get the best out of your sessions.

Either way, I think you're doing a great job so far and you're obviously very enthusiastic and enjoying it which is the main part. My initials are DW if you want to look me up...sure you can work it out!

 
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Hi Wrighty,

I'm not really approved to comment here, but I did actually play you a few weeks back in the local league! I was really impressed given the amount of time off you've had. Although your strokes did seem a bit stiff at the time, you were getting good spin and your forehand was pretty deadly when you relaxed into it and played a full stroke. I wouldn't get down at all about the recent tournament - if it was the county tournament, there were some really high quality players that practice every day and have done for years. I also heard it was a bit of a shambles with the seedings being all wrong eg...the finalist actually played each other in the group stage!

One thing to note about your coach is, he's a very good player but he does love his multi ball and as others have noticed, sometimes he's happy to just go through the motions with adults. I've known players to do 121 sessions for a year and not improve so I think playing with a variety of players at the club and getting used to some more unpredictable balls will help as well. I'm sure if you push him a little and have the conversation he'll be happy to work on whatever you need, but it might take you raising the question to get the best out of your sessions.

Either way, I think you're doing a great job so far and you're obviously very enthusiastic and enjoying it which is the main part. My initials are DW if you want to look me up...sure you can work it out!

Hi DW - thanks for posting and for the positive words, and yes, I do remember you well and the particularly interesting venue too! I really enjoyed our match as I felt like I was "in it" at least and making some shots.

It was the Hampshire closed tournament and I was in a fairly competitive group with a few premier div players, but I just didn't factor - it was fun though and I am glad I went.

Re the coach - your'e right and your comments are interesting to hear. I have sent him a mail and my video and have my next lesson tonight so we'll see how it goes...

Hope to see you soon - where do you play most of the time?

P

 
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Good to hear. I'll be at the next few tournaments - Soton and Winch so no doubt I'll see you there. I mostly play at waterside, though I don't train anywhere near as much as I should these days! Mostly just pop down when I have a new batch of blades to try out. If I ever stuck with one blade for longer than a week I'm sure my level would be much higher!
 
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Good to hear. I'll be at the next few tournaments - Soton and Winch so no doubt I'll see you there. I mostly play at waterside, though I don't train anywhere near as much as I should these days! Mostly just pop down when I have a new batch of blades to try out. If I ever stuck with one blade for longer than a week I'm sure my level would be much higher!

That's where I play every Thursday from 6-8 and then have my lesson at 8pm. Great club.

 
says Spin and more spin.
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Hi Wrighty,

I'm not really approved to comment here, but I did actually play you a few weeks back in the local league! I was really impressed given the amount of time off you've had. Although your strokes did seem a bit stiff at the time, you were getting good spin and your forehand was pretty deadly when you relaxed into it and played a full stroke. I wouldn't get down at all about the recent tournament - if it was the county tournament, there were some really high quality players that practice every day and have done for years. I also heard it was a bit of a shambles with the seedings being all wrong eg...the finalist actually played each other in the group stage!

One thing to note about your coach is, he's a very good player but he does love his multi ball and as others have noticed, sometimes he's happy to just go through the motions with adults. I've known players to do 121 sessions for a year and not improve so I think playing with a variety of players at the club and getting used to some more unpredictable balls will help as well. I'm sure if you push him a little and have the conversation he'll be happy to work on whatever you need, but it might take you raising the question to get the best out of your sessions.

Either way, I think you're doing a great job so far and you're obviously very enthusiastic and enjoying it which is the main part. My initials are DW if you want to look me up...sure you can work it out!

This comment does not violate the rules of this thread. And the post is pretty good. :)

 

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This comment does not violate the rules of this thread. And the post is pretty good. :)
Blanket permission to comment for people who have played an OP IRL would make sense. Video footage is nice, but playing a match with someone is real knowledge. And it's pretty unlikely that the kind of unthinking online meanness you were worried about will come up between people who may actually meet again.

I'm curious how Wrighty's chat with coach went? I have a feeling the coach may be trying to please his students by feeding ultra-fast multiball (like more balls = more value right?). It's possible you are both unsatisfied with the lesson structure but each think you are doing what the other guy wants -- The Abilene paradox.

Also, Samson Dubina posted this in his blog a couple weeks ago, thought it was relevant here.
Key #1: Get a Coach
The coach has experience on how to lay out a plan for you on many different levels. The coach also knows how to structure your playing system so that you can make the most progress this year. Regardless of your time commitment, budget, or goals, you need to have a personal coach. This is a non-negotiable.

Key #2: Have Good Communication with Your Coach
The coach's job isn't to fulfill his dreams, but to fulfill YOUR dreams. Having good communication with the coach involves regularly discussing your goals, your strong points, your improvement areas, your upcoming competition schedule, and much more. The better communication you have with your coach, the more effective your training sessions will be.

Key #3: Have Daily Short-Term Goals
Every drill must have a goal, even forehand and backhand warmup. Regardless if it is more adjustability in your backswing, finger pressure, better weight transfer, different timing, new variations, or whatever, you must have a clear picture of what you are trying to accomplish in drills, points, and matches. With daily goals, keep in mind that it is a goal. Maybe you will reach it, maybe your will exceed it, maybe not. But the goal still must be there.

 
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Blanket permission to comment for people who have played an OP IRL would make sense. Video footage is nice, but playing a match with someone is real knowledge. And it's pretty unlikely that the kind of unthinking online meanness you were worried about will come up between people who may actually meet again.

I'm curious how Wrighty's chat with coach went? I have a feeling the coach may be trying to please his students by feeding ultra-fast multiball (like more balls = more value right?). It's possible you are both unsatisfied with the lesson structure but each think you are doing what the other guy wants -- The Abilene paradox.

Also, Samson Dubina posted this in his blog a couple weeks ago, thought it was relevant here.
Key #1: Get a Coach
The coach has experience on how to lay out a plan for you on many different levels. The coach also knows how to structure your playing system so that you can make the most progress this year. Regardless of your time commitment, budget, or goals, you need to have a personal coach. This is a non-negotiable.

Key #2: Have Good Communication with Your Coach
The coach's job isn't to fulfill his dreams, but to fulfill YOUR dreams. Having good communication with the coach involves regularly discussing your goals, your strong points, your improvement areas, your upcoming competition schedule, and much more. The better communication you have with your coach, the more effective your training sessions will be.

Key #3: Have Daily Short-Term Goals
Every drill must have a goal, even forehand and backhand warmup. Regardless if it is more adjustability in your backswing, finger pressure, better weight transfer, different timing, new variations, or whatever, you must have a clear picture of what you are trying to accomplish in drills, points, and matches. With daily goals, keep in mind that it is a goal. Maybe you will reach it, maybe your will exceed it, maybe not. But the goal still must be there.

Agreed - Dave's post was really helpful to me as he is a very good player and his opinion is very valuable to me.

So, the coach conversation - it went very well indeed. He had read my note and watched my video and was well prepared.Your point re the Abilene complex is spot on - he felt that not many older players were willing to go back to basics and spend an hour per week on technique and potentially regress. Now I told him I was he was all in - we spent an hour on basic footwork, body movement, blade position and FH/BH drives - not even getting to topspin full shots.

It was very helpful to me as I began to piece together the movement flow of feet, into body into arm into contact and putting all those together into something cohesive. It was all much slower and had a logic flow to it that I appreciated and benefitted from.

I think he enjoys this sort of coaching but I doubt it's what most players my age want - they are looking for a way to win more matches next week.

I will check back in as we progress - thanks all.

 
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Thanks for the update Wrighty67. I've been following this thread and was wondering how things would turn out between you and your coach.

I have seen this so many times, for many different reasons, where there is an apparent mismatch between coach and student until the student communicates with the coach what they expect and then determine whether there is a match.

Glad to see it seems things will work out for you!

(Sorry can't resist one example of what I'm referring to.... I have a friend who was getting coaching from a much younger coach (not in the US). The student wanted a more proactive coaching experience. But due to the difference in age and social status the coach was reluctant to take charge, so to speak. But once the air was cleared... ie., treat me the same as any one else (allowing for age and time constraints, of course), things worked out well.)

 
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Hi NDH,

How are you? Long time I did not post any video of my training. Below is my most recent. I think this might be my 12th of 14th lessons but I am not sure coz I have lost count.

Do you remember you told me to post my progress here. Well here goes. But before that, I want to recap a little. Do recall that I was lamenting how bad my BH was at opening ups and totally suck at it. Well, have a look at my latest BH opening up again.
Although I did not have a video, my latest BH to BH drive is now around twenty or more continuously without misses.
 
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Blanket permission to comment for people who have played an OP IRL would make sense. Video footage is nice, but playing a match with someone is real knowledge. And it's pretty unlikely that the kind of unthinking online meanness you were worried about will come up between people who may actually meet again.

Yep. AfroBro was not commenting on video footage but on actually playing vs Wrighty. And the comments were all constructive....I think that is a huge part of why we decided to make this thread. Constructive commenting so that people would know there was a place they could post footage and not get sniped by low level experts. :)

I am pretty happy so far with how this thread is going. The comments on the video footage have been useful and positive. And we have not had what Brs just described as "the kind of unthinking online meanness" that so often happens in other contexts.

 
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