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While generally when you loop against block your FH may end up at around eye level, it's not a strict rule. Sometimes the finishing position will be like all the way across your body and down by the waist. It depends entirely on the type of ball you're dealing with. When you have a lot of time, you'll be able to make a bigger backswing and you'll aim to finish the point by using your legs to generate massive racket speed. With that racket speed it would actually slow you down to artificially stop your racket at a set point.
Simply put, the finishing point of the arm/racket will be where the body takes it. When you have less time you'll make a shorter back swing and the racket may end up before the eyes and you won't have to rely so much on your own power and will be using the speed that's already on the ball, a bit more time which you'll generally have on a slower ball you can afford to backswing big and push off hard with your legs and since you'd most likely win that point finishing down by your waist would be fine.I'd say first get your swing sequence correct. Push with your dominant leg from the FH and backswing against the push so that you have the feeling that your body is kind of dragging/pulling your arm into the ball - have a look at one of the videos I posted earlier in the thread to understand what I mean.
The way I think about is almost like my arm/racket kind of by accident happens to collide with the ball, so that there is no conscious pulling of the arm. When you have the right feeling for this, you can experiment with finding the feeling for how large of a swing you can get away with depending on the ball. Again, FH against block you'll generally finish around eye level, but it's an estimate so find what works for you.
Simply put, the finishing point of the arm/racket will be where the body takes it. When you have less time you'll make a shorter back swing and the racket may end up before the eyes and you won't have to rely so much on your own power and will be using the speed that's already on the ball, a bit more time which you'll generally have on a slower ball you can afford to backswing big and push off hard with your legs and since you'd most likely win that point finishing down by your waist would be fine.I'd say first get your swing sequence correct. Push with your dominant leg from the FH and backswing against the push so that you have the feeling that your body is kind of dragging/pulling your arm into the ball - have a look at one of the videos I posted earlier in the thread to understand what I mean.
The way I think about is almost like my arm/racket kind of by accident happens to collide with the ball, so that there is no conscious pulling of the arm. When you have the right feeling for this, you can experiment with finding the feeling for how large of a swing you can get away with depending on the ball. Again, FH against block you'll generally finish around eye level, but it's an estimate so find what works for you.
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Thanks Richie - understood.
My issue is that, looking at the video, that I am clearly swinging around myself too much and hooking the ball - hence issues vs backspin or when I want a straighter shot. To my eyes, it also looks "wrong" and not in balance.
Some thoughts:
In general you are applying too much force. It's clear you are very fit. The ball weighs only three grams. Muscular tension isn't helpful when applying force to such a tiny object. I think that is why your elbow stays bent at 90 degrees instead of opening and closing naturally, you are strongly holding it in that position. Try to let your arm swing more freely, just to get a feel of it. If you miss 100 balls in a row at first that's okay, it is practice.
Another idea is to think about shaping the flight of the ball rather than about hitting it hard or fast. Make it follow a certain arc that you imagine.
I like your backhand swing a lot actually. It's nicely forward and direct. I believe the unwanted upward finish that you called out is also due to unnecessary tension in your arm and body.
Are you aware of your breathing while you do the exercises? You could take two minutes to focus on exhaling with every swing. Results can be interesting.
On the upright body position, Yes, that is really hampering your side to side movement. Your coach is actually lower to feed the multiball than you are to play it. Maybe you could try to mirror his position so that would give you a real-time indicator if you have stood up. If you can look directly at his face on a level you should be good. Looking down at him, not so much.
A peril of doing lots of static multiball is that it's irresistible to hit the ball hard. Multiball gets boring, and there is no connection between shots. Nobody actually plays that way, we all have to vary the spin and speed to deal with random incoming balls. Two ideas to deal with that problem:
On the forehand you are doing powerful hits with a very spin-oriented bat position. It's so closed. You may want to keep it like that but go for more brush and spin. Or open the bat face more and really hit. I'm not sure what contact you and your coach are looking for. Personally I would try for more spin, but like NDH said, do whatever your coach wants, he probably has a plan.
Another great option if you haven't already, is to find a couple of guys near your level and train with them. Not play matches, but do exercises. That way you gain experience with the random, poorly placed, off-tempo balls that come up in real play. It would make a fine balance to this multiball that is by design much more consistent and predictable.
In general you are applying too much force. It's clear you are very fit. The ball weighs only three grams. Muscular tension isn't helpful when applying force to such a tiny object. I think that is why your elbow stays bent at 90 degrees instead of opening and closing naturally, you are strongly holding it in that position. Try to let your arm swing more freely, just to get a feel of it. If you miss 100 balls in a row at first that's okay, it is practice.
Another idea is to think about shaping the flight of the ball rather than about hitting it hard or fast. Make it follow a certain arc that you imagine.
I like your backhand swing a lot actually. It's nicely forward and direct. I believe the unwanted upward finish that you called out is also due to unnecessary tension in your arm and body.
Are you aware of your breathing while you do the exercises? You could take two minutes to focus on exhaling with every swing. Results can be interesting.
On the upright body position, Yes, that is really hampering your side to side movement. Your coach is actually lower to feed the multiball than you are to play it. Maybe you could try to mirror his position so that would give you a real-time indicator if you have stood up. If you can look directly at his face on a level you should be good. Looking down at him, not so much.
A peril of doing lots of static multiball is that it's irresistible to hit the ball hard. Multiball gets boring, and there is no connection between shots. Nobody actually plays that way, we all have to vary the spin and speed to deal with random incoming balls. Two ideas to deal with that problem:
On the forehand you are doing powerful hits with a very spin-oriented bat position. It's so closed. You may want to keep it like that but go for more brush and spin. Or open the bat face more and really hit. I'm not sure what contact you and your coach are looking for. Personally I would try for more spin, but like NDH said, do whatever your coach wants, he probably has a plan.
Another great option if you haven't already, is to find a couple of guys near your level and train with them. Not play matches, but do exercises. That way you gain experience with the random, poorly placed, off-tempo balls that come up in real play. It would make a fine balance to this multiball that is by design much more consistent and predictable.
Why is that if I may ask?
The coach can see errors immediately and correct them. Video review after the training session while great for someone who is self-taught is much slower and more painful way to learn then having proper coaching.
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I am afraid I don't fully know - he just seems happy enough with my swing and is focusing a lot more on shot position and game strategy
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Thank you Brs - very insightful indeed.
I do feel that I am tight and tense - but have struggled to change that even when I consciously relax or shake it out..
I have to try and loosen up my hand and arm and swing more freely as you suggest. I have recently changed my grip to a more neutral one to try to combat the closed racquet position but it needs more work.
Getting lower to coaches level is a great idea - mostly to keep me there as I get tired!
I didn't feel it was my place to say this in my first post but now I will. Do you have options for other coaches?
You are not happy with your technique. We are also not happy with some of your technique. In particular the way you use your shoulder on your forehand carries a high risk of RSI as much as you play. If your coach is happy with your technique and wants to work on game strategy, to me that means your goals and his are not aligned, and another coach might serve you better.
I obvs do not know your coach and am speculating. However I am also an old man who started as a true beginner at age 43, and developed horrid technique playing for several years with no instruction. Since then I have met many coaches who take no real interest in adult learners. They believe only kids have potential and can make major changes. There is some truth to this, it's harder for adults. But I still don't give those coaches my money and time, because they are not giving me proper coaching. It sounds from your post like your coach may believe you are too old to change technique, so he is working on tactics. You will draw your own conclusions.
About the difficulty of removing tension, Yes, it should be easy but is incredibly hard. Maybe someone with a lot more experience like @Lula would have good suggestions. What comes to mind is lots of shadow practice. Visualize the ball, but don't even hold a bat, just let your feet and waist swing your arm, and *let your arm go where it wants to go.* Then when you play or train compare the feeling of your body to the shadow swing. Do a few shadows between balls or exercises. Don't worry about visualizing a perfect stroke path or finish point. It's going to be different from ball to ball as you make adjustments. But the feeling of using your entire body to move the bat should stay very similar.
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Spin to win!
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This is exactly why the thread is set up this way, so only people who have proven (one way or another) to be suitable “commentators” can actually comment.
I’m sure you didn’t intend it to come out this way, but your comments is unhelpful, not constructive and comes from someone, who as far as I know, hasn’t ever posted footage of themselves playing.
It’s not even about “how good” the people are either.
But having an overall understanding of how to improve, how to advise and just to be constructive, is very important.
At the end of the day, most people can’t possibly improve every single area of their game in a short time, which is why others haven’t listed point after point of things to improve.
The expectation is that someone seeking help in this thread, will likely need to improve every single aspect of their game.
But that won’t happen overnight, and it’s not constructive pointing out all the things at once in my opinion.
I am aware of the thread rules and that's why I didn't comment technique wise and of course I can't be of any constructive help therefore.
For what is worth I find all comments including yours valid and constructive but most were concentrating on FH (except Brs who tackled BH issues). I was surprised by that and just naively wanted to remind allowed reviewers that they maybe forgot to comment the BH side?
I wasn't aware that it was intentional and thought that Wrighty67 will pick the stuff he wants to work on and people will comment all the stuff they see. After all he was brave to expose himself and deserves all the suggestions he can get for that.
But you are right that it's probably better to filter and provide feedback for one thing at a time. It makes sense that I'm not allowed to review 😀
My intention wasn't criticizing anyone and I hope Wrighty67 didn't see it that way.
TLDR
Forget about my comment, sorry
Now where were we, aha yes about that BH... 😁
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Spin and more spin.
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One thing to note, I am pretty reasonable. If you see something that you feel is worth commenting on and run it by me in a PM, it is totally possible that I say it is okay to post or we (you and me) edit it so it is okay to post.
So, if you have observed something and you want to present to me via PM, feel free to.
The idea is that I am making sure that the comments in the thread are useful and constructive. In the past (not in this thread, but before the idea of this thread came about), most of the time, when people posted video, there would be good comments but then, some of the comments would be totally crazy. One time a guy who is a coach and is on TTD posted footage of him training a guy who was in the top 300 in the world. You would not believe how many comments from fairly low level players about how bad the guys technique was because he wasn't Ma Long.....the coach got pretty riled up about it. I don't care what level a player is, if a TTD member posts footage of himself in this thread, I want the comments that are posted to be useful and constructive so the person feels happy they posted footage rather than walking away wishing he had never let us see how he plays.
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Technique advice will not help with a tournament in two days. If anything it will only cause problems to think about it. Just play and have fun.
If you want something to work on at a tournament, you could do a lot worse than Tahl Leibovitz's PEZ idea from PingPong for Fighters.
Placement
Extend the rally
Zero unforced errors
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Hi, Wrighty67.
I think you put in a lot of effort and that it would help if your coach worked with you on improving your technique. You are engaging too much upper arm on the forehand. it is costing you some things. On the backhand, you have a decent shot, but there are things you could do to improve it.
The problem though, and this is why many coaches don't try to fix technique in adults, is that it is hard to break habits without either slowing down a lot or missing the table/ball for an extended period of time. So most adults, rather than do what the coach shows them, usually end up trying to hit the ball on the table, and this results in their using the only stroke that give them reasonable accuracy, which is their current stroke which they are trying to fix. To learn a new stroke, you need to learn the motion first and then try to adjust the motion to the spin.
I get what Richie, who is a far better player than I am is telling you about finishing position. That said there is a general reason why it is encouraged that you salute at your left or right eyebrow on most shots - it is because the racket is lined up with the ball longer and you whiff less when your timing gets challenged (especially on backspin for example). If you were to look at your current stroke, you line up with the ball for a short period then come across your body to trap the spin. This results in a a good contact somewhat but in addition to adding sidespin, you put far less spin and speed into the ball than you could. The main cause is your backswing is with the upper arm and not with the twist/lunge of the left foot.
There are variety of things you could try - one is stepping back from the table. but regardlessm whatever stroke your use, what you need to do is to get the stroke and then use it to hit the ball and accept that you will either hit the ball long or into the net at the beginning. But atter that, rather than change the stroke completely, just decide where on the ball you want to hit. If you hit on top of the ball more, the ball stays lower and more towards table or even the net. If you swing upwards at the back of the ball a bit more, the ball tends to lift higher and go longer. Then all you need to do is read the incoming spin and decide how to adjust your swing to the ball. It is a long and painful process, but it is very much worth it if you have time and patience.
All that said, if you want to keep your current strokes and just have fun, many players do that and are perfectly fine. I just agree with BRS that it is a bit unfortunate to pay for lessons and then not get taught to hit the ball correctly to a better degree than you currently do. That said, as a coach, I can understand the psychological issues associated with change and why some coaches give up on adult learners.
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If you have a match tomorrow, don't think about technique - technique you work on when you have time or you don't care too much about your results - matches are played with unconscious processes so it is paradoxically damaging to try harder during a match since it is largely about what your training before the match brings to the table. You just play your best and learn new things to work on.
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Hey, everybody,
Please help me with my development.
I've been playing table tennis for about 4 years, for the last two years I've been trying to practice regularly 2 - 3 times a week. I've also been to multiball a few times with a coach, but more just within the "club". I play unregistered competition (weekly match).
Video 1:https://photos.app.goo.gl/yyuAPXEcJuB4Jce87
The first video shows the warm-up and basic strikes
Video 2:https://photos.app.goo.gl/NTtVJE98ZoDK8dG27
On the second video, there is a practice game - the end of the set, the game starts at 9:9
Thank you for your advice. I will add more information if needed.
EDIT: Pretty substantial infoI'm the one in the yellow shirt. I'm sorry.
Hi, Mivan the camera angle makes it hard to see your training strokes. Since your partner has decent strokes, I suspect your strokes aren't that bad and that you put in some good work. There is some tension in the strokes that you can improve, but in table tennis, there are no low hanging fruit. The one thing I think you can do is improve your contact - you could probably play forward and into the ball and get more rotation. You sometimes go upwards off it and sometimes come in too flat. If you could always hit the ball with a spin stroke, that could easily raise your level, though you would need a coach to work on it for sure. Your physical gifts show when you hit the ball for sure.
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Stronger in 2023 🥳
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Hey guys, I hope you 're doing great.
I started creating content about table tennis.
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I'm a penholder left-handed player and any feedback about my content is most appreciated.
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