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  1. NDH is online now
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    #81

    Both Timo and Dima have more of a bent arm than I remember, but I've never really looked that closely!

    I think they both straighten it more than you can see on the videos, especially when going for more power.

    For what it's worth, I did a rubber review of some cheap Chinese thing a few years ago, and this was my FH loop that I "slo-mo'd" for the review.

    Start it from 1:30 so you aren't bored to death (it's only a few shots, but you can see the angle of my arm).

    A note would be..... I'm 6ft 4 (and not exactly light on my feet), so my technique takes that into account.

    I usually use my wrist to generate some of the spin - Especially if I'm not in the perfect position!


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    #82
    NDH, it looks like you guys have to much weight on the right leg. That is why you can see your torso leaning that way.

    will get more power if you can move the weight over to the left leg.

    will have difficulty moving to the left at the moment since a lot of the weight is on the right leg.

  3. NDH is online now
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    #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula
    NDH, it looks like you guys have to much weight on the right leg. That is why you can see your torso leaning that way.

    will get more power if you can move the weight over to the left leg.

    will have difficulty moving to the left at the moment since a lot of the weight is on the right leg.

    I have too much weight on both legs

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  4. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Dominikk85
    Is that using the forearm? https://youtube.com/shorts/x5PQMMN_pdc?feature=share​​​

    It is really quite hard to get the forearm into the stroke when you are in the habit of it being held stable and not moving while you move the upper arm. I did a decent amount of practice where I did not move anything but my forearm which felt really weird at first and felt like I could not control the ball. Don't worry if the ball goes in with things like that. As you get used to it, you start being able to control where the ball will go. I also did a lot of shadow stroke practice to get the movement of the forearm into muscle memory. And I also did a lot of self hitting like the video I post frequently of me hitting FH self hitting while letting the ball bounce 2x. Robot also helped me focus on getting forearm snap into my stroke.

    It is hard to change. But there are creative ways to get it to happen.

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  5. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Dominikk85
    Yeah i just tried to isolate the forearm move.

    Btw are dima and timo even use their forearm?

    To me it looks dima starts a bit above 90 degrees and also finishes there. Or do I see that wrongj
    The movement of the forearm is hard to distinguish in those videos. It is there though. In the screen shots you tried to include of Dima, his arm is elbow is bent at a 90 degree angle in the followthrough. It is notably less bent in the backswing. But still hard to see. Timo's arm movement is more complicated because there is also some rotation to the upper arm that causes the forearm to accelerate. Try to watch on YouTube's slowest speed (0.25x speed) and see if you can see where each forearm starts moving faster.

    This video may help you understand the mechanics of the FH stroke a little more fully as well even though most of what I present is sort of obvious when you think about it:

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  6. Dominikk85 is offline
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    #86
    Thanks, that makes sense. If you flex the arm just before contact that will add batspeed.

    What confused me was this video by ti long where he claims there shouldn't be active flexion of the arm

    But it makes sense that flexing adds speed

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    #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Dominikk85
    Thanks, that makes sense. If you flex the arm just before contact that will add batspeed.

    What confused me was this video by ti long where he claims there shouldn't be active flexion of the arm

    But it makes sense that flexing adds speed
    From my point of view the use of arm muscles should be ideally none or at a minimum. The speed of the arm in the forward swing is ideally from the usage of the legs and an appropriate backswing, so the only conscious usage of the arm would be for the backswing.

    The forearm snap in the forward swing kind of happens automatically if you had your arm extended in the backswing. If you did the swing in the right order, starting with the legs. The push with the legs to turn your hips back to square which makes the arm move, stopping the the arm at the right moment will make the forearm "snap through" without any usage of the arm muscles.

    From what I could tell of your video hitting FH against the robot, you are leaning a bit with your body rather than bending from the hip. It's difficult to tell as I can't see much of your lower body. I used to do something similar, in my case, from what I remember, I was compensating because I hadn't turned my hips enough and could therefore not do much of a swing.

    These videos point to what I consider to be important:

    The sequence of the swing is important and it'll save you a lot of headache if you start practicing that now. All the other details are in my opinion more trial and error and a matter of practice. An example of details: how much you need to bend from the hip, how hard you push off with your dominant leg on the FH, how large of a backswing you need depending on the ball etc. The arm structure as you've already seen, varies a fair bit between pro players, so I'd consider it to be less important. Though it can be important as well. Misunderstandings of the backswing can also cause problems even if you're doing everything else well.

    Hope I'm not causing too much confusion, let me know if something doesn't make sense. It's difficult to cover all the nuances in one post. My advice for now though would be to get familiar with how to use your lower body to drive your FH swing and to try to get a feeling for it.

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    Last edited by Richie; 01-10-2022 at 03:45 PM.

  8. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #88
    This video:
    What the bear does at about 1:06 may be some of what Richey is getting at with the arm being whipped by the leg, core and torso action. Figuring out how to get that relaxed whippy mechanics is no easy task but it is worth working towards that kind of relaxed whip action.

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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 01-11-2022 at 12:45 AM.
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    #89
    Great video carl. Does the upper arm basically stop when the elbow starts to flex?

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    #90
    Is that more correct regarding the forearm use?
    https://youtube.com/shorts/hr3LhZd7UhA?feature=share

  11. Lula is offline
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    #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Dominikk85
    Is that more correct regarding the forearm use?
    https://youtube.com/shorts/hr3LhZd7UhA?feature=share

    Try making your invisible racket head drop down towards the floor. Probably easier with a racket in the hand πŸ˜€


  12. PingBirdPong is online now
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    #92
    I’m waking up this thread with a new video!
    This is me playing a friendly match with my friend, so none of us were trying very hard. Just wanted to ask if I turn too much during FH topspin, because I thought my stroke looked weird. The short clip is a point I am quite proud of. Please excuse my low level and bad video quality, and enjoy!

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    #93
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    I’m waking up this thread with a new video!
    This is me playing a friendly match with my friend, so none of us were trying very hard. Just wanted to ask if I turn too much during FH topspin, because I thought my stroke looked weird. The short clip is a point I am quite proud of. Please excuse my low level and bad video quality, and enjoy!

    Nice one!! Looks good to me, I think you're turning the the right amount for those shots as you have the time for it, and it seemed to have worked out well right? 😁

    You could bend your knees a little bit more and put more of your weight on your right foot when you're turned so that when you push off from that foot you'll have a faster swing. But I'm nitpicking and you said neither of you were trying very hard. Keep it up πŸ˜„

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  14. Der_Echte is offline
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    #94
    RICHIE !!! You are NOT nitpicking. You are telling it as you see it That is respectful and honorable..



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  15. PingBirdPong is online now
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    #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Richie

    Nice one!! Looks good to me, I think you're turning the the right amount for those shots as you have the time for it, and it seemed to have worked out well right? 😁

    You could bend your knees a little bit more and put more of your weight on your right foot when you're turned so that when you push off from that foot you'll have a faster swing. But I'm nitpicking and you said neither of you were trying very hard. Keep it up πŸ˜„

    Thank you!
    the reason I do not bend my right leg, or put much weight on it, is because my leg has an injury.

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  16. NDH is online now
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    #96

    PingPongBird, if the end result is good, keep doing it! πŸ˜€

    A few things to add......

    Stop saying about your "low level"...... Compared to Timo Boll? Maybe.... But we are all low level compared to Timo! 😁

    I certainly wouldn't turn any more than you are doing - If you come across someone who counters/blocks close to the table, you'll be really rushed for time.

    Especially with a bad/recovering leg, you won't have the time to reset and react to a wider ball put down your forehand.

    But.... Whilst things are working for you, there is no need to change!

    Great point with the backhand winner! CHOOOOOOO!

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  17. PingBirdPong is online now
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    #97
    New Vid!😊
    Here is a compilation of my best shots this week!
    Open and hoping for more advice, and as always, enjoy!
    Need to improve my BH consistency with topspin shots, they keep going into the net for some reasonπŸ˜…

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  18. Lula is offline
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    #98
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    New Vid!😊
    Here is a compilation of my best shots this week!
    Open and hoping for more advice, and as always, enjoy!
    Need to improve my BH consistency with topspin shots, they keep going into the net for some reasonπŸ˜…

    I think i like your backhand technique better than your forehand!

    If you can stand a little wider and bend the legs a bit more it will easier to get the body behind the strokes. I also think you can try to think that you always want to have the arm in front of the body when doing forehand, so you need to turn the torso back for the arm to come back. Now you move the arm first, so it comes behind your back, and then you can not get power and consistency from the body.

    I like your spirit and entusiasm when playing. Lovely to see the passion.

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  19. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Dominikk85
    Great video carl. Does the upper arm basically stop when the elbow starts to flex?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dominikk85
    Is that more correct regarding the forearm use?
    https://youtube.com/shorts/hr3LhZd7UhA?feature=share
    Sorry. I missed this till now. If you were asking me, I am fine with other people answering. But since nobody did answer, this is what I will say:

    1) I think you are overthinking this. Do a few hundred a day, in front of a mirror so you can see your form while doing the shadow stroke and over time, you will move the stroke to increasingly more efficient technique.
    2) The movement is a complex synergy of legs, hips, torso, upper arm, lower arm, wrist. To me, what you are showing looks stiff which may be because you are trying to isolate the arm. But if the idea is synergy with all parts working together, if the upper arm stops when the lower arm starts, then you may as well only use the lower arm because, if one stops when the other starts, THEN THEY ARE NOT WORKING IN SYNERGY (together). For the arm movement to create the fastest racket speed, both would need to be moving at the same time. That being said, there are times when you may take a shot with only the upper arm, with only the lower arm, or with almost no arm movement and only the movement that results from legs, hips core rotation.....So, there is not one answer to your question. But if you are asking for the technique for fastest racket speed then everything (legs, hips, core rotation, upper arm, lower arm and wrist whip) would all need to be in motion at the same time.
    3) The question "Is that correct" requires a context. Are you getting more use of the elbow joint (lower arm).....yes. Are you getting the upper arm and lower arm to work together.....not really. Are you getting the upper arm and lower arm to work with the rest of your body to help create the muscle memory for the complete complex of synergistic actions that create a powerful and effective stroke......definitely not. BUT YOU ARE GETTING YOUR LOWER ARM (elbow joint) TO MOVE as part of the stroke. So, for the purposes of what you were trying, that may have been what you were looking for.

    Practice the shadow stroke facing a mirror and do a few thousand (20-30 min) a day for, say, 4 days this week and 4 days next week (8 days 20-30 min of non stoped shadow strokes) and then film what you are actually doing as your shadow stroke. See if it looks different as you give yourself time to feel the coordination of using everything together for 8 days (over a 14 day period....rest time and time for your nervous system to absorb some of the information).

    Hope this is helpful.
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  20. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Richie


    You could bend your knees a little bit more and put more of your weight on your right foot when you're turned......

    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong

    Thank you!
    the reason I do not bend my right leg, or put much weight on it, is because my leg has an injury.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lula


    If you can stand a little wider and bend the legs a bit more....

    PingBirdPong....I think, with every video you need to post, that you will start trying to bend your legs a little more when your leg injury is fully recovered.

    hahahahaha.

    It is fun to watch you play. You definitely are having fun playing. And, in my opinion that is the most important part.

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