I think you will adjust! Everyone have downperiods aswell, so keep up the good work! Do you have any possibility to get some multiball practice with a good coach? Maybe it will get you more motivated.
Video Footage Safe Thread
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Hi Gozo,
On your base FH loop vs light underspin ball, you do not get your waist down very much for leverage. That would help spin and when you want it, power. You are like me, not exactly a 50 kg dude (I am more than 2x that weight), so it is natural to want to play more upright.
Still, you find a way to get down 2 cm, then use the shoulder and arm for leverage to make a whip... enough to get the ball to do what you want. That kind of ability to adjust can help in some shot situations. I personally do not always have that big backswing and that big hip swing internet experts advocate. I find a way to make a whip with a short hip on some of my shots.
On your base FH loop vs light underspin ball, you do not get your waist down very much for leverage. That would help spin and when you want it, power. You are like me, not exactly a 50 kg dude (I am more than 2x that weight), so it is natural to want to play more upright.
Still, you find a way to get down 2 cm, then use the shoulder and arm for leverage to make a whip... enough to get the ball to do what you want. That kind of ability to adjust can help in some shot situations. I personally do not always have that big backswing and that big hip swing internet experts advocate. I find a way to make a whip with a short hip on some of my shots.
I like your outfit. Awesome look!
Great that you do multiball!
I think you could try to brush the ball with the forarm more against backspin. Make your coach to do half long balls instead, then you need to use the forearm.
Connecting bh and fh: try to hit the bh and fh lika on a line. Now you hit bh at one point, then fh behind your body. So try to get the hit more in fron of you so you hit bh and fh like on a line.
Keep up the good work.
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I often hear members from the USA mention the USTTA rating. Just to satisfy my curiosity, what rating would I be placed under if I am playing like the above under the USTTA system? below 500? 500 - 1000? below 1,500? Kindly indulge my curiosity, if it is alright. Thanks.
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To have an actual rating you have to earn it. There is no such thing as an estimation. It does not work that way. A person's rating becomes more accurate after they have played a few 100 matches in tournaments where their rating is impacted by the results.
One of the reasons you cannot just look at video footage and tell is that you could have a player who looks great in training but is weak against certain types of players (like Long Pips), so, that guy could beat a bunch of 1600-1800 level players who are attackers, and lose to a bunch of players who are 1100-1300 level LP players and therefore end up with a rating of about 1400.
But another reason you cannot estimate a player's level by video is that TT is a complicated game. There is a lot going on in TT. I could post footage of guys who are 1500-1600 and put that next to footage of guys who are 2300-2400 and you could think the 1500-1600 level players were better than the 2300-2400 level players UNLESS, you really knew what you were looking at.
Here: can you tell me what level these guys are: you don't have to give a rating. Just are they decent, high or low level players:
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definitely closer to 2300-2400 than 1500-1600 . They must be both playing with LP or anti ? and a slow blade ?
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If I should hazard a guess, I would put these two players in the We are goffing around / recreational / having a good time level.
The ball is, in my view having very little spin and that is why the player back towards camera is having an easy time returning the ball without much trouble.
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toooooo much choice!!
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Both are 'Decent' players, different style's but maybe around the same level as each other??
The guy in blue has reasonable strokes, can lift backspin, pushes look fairly smooth. Steady.
The chopper looks less 'stable' as far as his strokes are concerned, especially on FH, but this is down to the fact that he is reacting more to the quicker incoming balls and sometimes choppers just appear 'untidy', a high level chopper would look more compact and have a higher level of footwork ( mind you same for the other guy!!). the chopper may be awkward for a lot of attacking players to play against, so may get better results than what you would think just by looking at the video clip.
if high is 2400+
decent 1700 - 2400
low 1000 - 1700
Then I would guess they may possibly be - 'mid decent +' !!!!!!!
The guy in blue has reasonable strokes, can lift backspin, pushes look fairly smooth. Steady.
The chopper looks less 'stable' as far as his strokes are concerned, especially on FH, but this is down to the fact that he is reacting more to the quicker incoming balls and sometimes choppers just appear 'untidy', a high level chopper would look more compact and have a higher level of footwork ( mind you same for the other guy!!). the chopper may be awkward for a lot of attacking players to play against, so may get better results than what you would think just by looking at the video clip.
if high is 2400+
decent 1700 - 2400
low 1000 - 1700
Then I would guess they may possibly be - 'mid decent +' !!!!!!!
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Have you played against pips much? It looks like the guy in white has them on one side at least, and this is why it doesn't look like there is much spin.
The guy in black (blue?), is serving long and "fairly flat" - The idea with a serve like that is against pips is to get a long/medium long return that isn't "loaded" with backspin.
It's usually a nice amount of backspin for the 3rd shot to be a powerful loop. In this case, the guy in black doesn't have a killer loop, but he can pretty much always "get in" and force the guy in white backwards.
When the guy in white does get back one of those loops, it's usually pretty loaded, which is why the guy in black lifts it slowly, or pushes (again, if he had a killer loop, he's just attack it continuously, as I don't think the guy in white would be able to live with that).
ALLLLLL of that being said, in the grand scheme of things, these are 2 players who are likely to play in the highest division of any league (not counting professional leagues of course).
I find that "awkward" players like the guy in white, usually have enough variation and frustration to win matches, and the guy in black looks pretty solid on both wings.
When I look at the 4 leagues I play in, I think they'd be bottom half of the top division in 2 leagues, mid table in 1 league and towards the top of another league.
No idea what that equates to in USTT, but I'd imagine it's around the 2000/2100 mark?
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@NDH... Carl is baiting you like a trapdoor to fall into his basement septic tank for a one week stay with the sewer rats.
I know the true level of both these players... and they are both interesting players... and when you collect match win data of these two players vs the rest of the field... you will see they are VERY competitive vs the upper 2200/lower 2300 crowd, often they seriously give major trouble to 2400+ players... but you will see their official rating be somewhere not too far above the upper end of your estimate. There have been NUMEROUS arguments over why or how their rating are so low given their performance vs higher level players.
I can see why you feel the way you do when you see these two play each other... I would wager sum pizza and beers that these two have faced each other in the finals of whatever ratings division many hundreds of times... and they play each other in similar finals in NYC clubs where there are cash prizes for a league night.
The player in white shirt is real good at making himself look like a really lower rated player. The one in black shirt has a LOT of skill in TT, some of it is very obvious, a good chunk of it is not so obvious. Both players are fiercely competitive.
There have also been a hundred TT forum debates over the black shirt guy's rubbers being more than a little wore out, which is said to make it much easier for him to play with next to zero spin. I have played vs him twice in official tourneys (lost 1-3 both times) and confirm his rubbers are not ridiculous wore out to anti levels... they are worn uniformly... and not very worn. Why do players lose vs him? Answer is, he knows how to play TT very well, it is not his equipment.
I know the true level of both these players... and they are both interesting players... and when you collect match win data of these two players vs the rest of the field... you will see they are VERY competitive vs the upper 2200/lower 2300 crowd, often they seriously give major trouble to 2400+ players... but you will see their official rating be somewhere not too far above the upper end of your estimate. There have been NUMEROUS arguments over why or how their rating are so low given their performance vs higher level players.
I can see why you feel the way you do when you see these two play each other... I would wager sum pizza and beers that these two have faced each other in the finals of whatever ratings division many hundreds of times... and they play each other in similar finals in NYC clubs where there are cash prizes for a league night.
The player in white shirt is real good at making himself look like a really lower rated player. The one in black shirt has a LOT of skill in TT, some of it is very obvious, a good chunk of it is not so obvious. Both players are fiercely competitive.
There have also been a hundred TT forum debates over the black shirt guy's rubbers being more than a little wore out, which is said to make it much easier for him to play with next to zero spin. I have played vs him twice in official tourneys (lost 1-3 both times) and confirm his rubbers are not ridiculous wore out to anti levels... they are worn uniformly... and not very worn. Why do players lose vs him? Answer is, he knows how to play TT very well, it is not his equipment.
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In fairness, I recognised the name of the guy in black, and knew he had (or, has had) a solid 2000+ rating.
I guess the better question here would have been..... "Based on this video..... what does their rating look like?"
Perhaps that video does not showcase their skills, but that's all people will have to go on in this thread.
The "2000" rating has been placed on such a pedestal, that to an outsider like me, you'd think that you would have to be *extremely* good!
It's hard for me to compare USTT with the UK system (not that we have a coherent ranking system anyway!)
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I've realised that as someone who is allowed to comment, I've not posted footage in a while!
Pretty sure this video has been posted before, but I've taken a few years off from the forum!
This is from "Pre Covid" days - I'm the man giant in red!
Some caveats......
• I'm 6ft 4 and 290 lbs..... I wouldn't look to my technique for guidance unless you fit the same mould 😂
• Apologise for the repeated slo-mo's at the start - I wanted to analyse some things when I first recorded it.
• The guy in black has a wonderful "traditional Chinese" style - Well, a little hybrid Euro/Chinese style, but plays closer to the Chinese game.
• For most people watching, his technique is very good for Table Tennis - He's also the perfect size!
Anyway, here you go!
Pretty sure this video has been posted before, but I've taken a few years off from the forum!
This is from "Pre Covid" days - I'm the man giant in red!
Some caveats......
• I'm 6ft 4 and 290 lbs..... I wouldn't look to my technique for guidance unless you fit the same mould 😂
• Apologise for the repeated slo-mo's at the start - I wanted to analyse some things when I first recorded it.
• The guy in black has a wonderful "traditional Chinese" style - Well, a little hybrid Euro/Chinese style, but plays closer to the Chinese game.
• For most people watching, his technique is very good for Table Tennis - He's also the perfect size!
Anyway, here you go!
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Hi NDH and others ...
In the post above you wrote that these two players would be likely to play in the highest division of any non-professional league and you assumed their rating would be above 2000. Honestly, that surprised me a lot.
I will not comment on the game of the above two players, because according to Carl's rules I am not allowed, but I will put my video similar to the one above, a match between attacker (me in blue) and defensive player (in red/gray), so if you can then comment on my game. Thnx.
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Hey @7sagittarius7,
Which part surprised you?
As I've said before, I don't know the USTT rating system very well, other than "2000" is the benchmark for a "good" player.
If you are playing in the top league in the UK, I'd guess that you'd *probably* be rated at 2000 or above - But it's very hard to tell (especially off a few random videos).
With regards to your video, you are clearly very comfortable against that defender - I'm assuming you've played him many times before?
I'd like to see you against an attacker, as the defender gives you a lot of time, and you don't have to move too quickly to get into position.
Based on that one video alone, you'd almost certainly play in the top division of most local leagues in the UK.
For anyone reading, there is quite a big difference between the very top..... and the top of local league.
The very top in the UK are internationals (Pitchford, Drinkhall) or playing professionally in Europe (Wilson, Doran, Baggeley).
You then have another tier of players who don't bother with local league, and simply train amongst themselves and enter the better tournaments.
And then, probably from around UK ranking 50 onwards, you have people playing in local league (there will of course be exceptions throughout this).
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That these two players could play in the highest division league. I also don't know the USTT rating system, so I can't comment on that.
Yes, I played against him many times.
I don't have a newer video against the attacker, and the one above is a little older. I’m not sure how successful I would be in the top leagues, I’ve been playing often lately, but it’s important to note that I don’t have a single hour of training with a coach in my life. I learned everything myself from the internet.
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Spin and more spin.
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Philippe (the chopper) is playing with LP on one side. Rich is playing with Mark V on both sides.
Both have been rated above 2400 at some point and both are rated at about 2200 in that match. And, for the people who said they were messing around, no, they are not messing around. They just are both good at making their opponents play awkward shots. These guys are definitely higher level than most players on the forum.
I was not hiding it based on what I said in the thread I posted. I just was making the point that it is hard to tell the level of a player just based on watching footage unless you are good at seeing things like spin. So, a higher level player is more likely to get that there is more than meets the eye to what these two guys are doing despite them both looking a little awkward at times.
TT is a complex game and part of the game is deceptive play and how someone handles spin.
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The video I posted is actually not an attacker vs a defender. Here is Rich D vs a 2500 level player from that same tournament:
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They hide skill very well!
Looks harmless, until someone watching gets too confident and tries for himself…
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That’s the US Nationals 2013 QF against Kanak Jha .
I don’t think these are recreational players
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