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  1. zeio is offline
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    #1

    Request for Ban Review

    Since I haven't gotten a response from Dan, I have no choice but to start this thread to voice my displeasure with the totally unjustified 3-week ban.

    Original PM below with dates added and typos fixed.
    Hi, Dan. This is zeio. I beg your pardon for posting under a different name but I feel the need to defend myself as I sense a strong bias behind the decision of a 3-week ban here. I'd appreciate it if you could review the following threads on who the real instigator is in this spat.

    I posted as usual, answering questions, but then Carl barged in with a threat(2021/11/17), and as rude as it was, I still backed down there.
    https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...l=1#post355816

    brokenball didn't heed Carl's threat(2021/11/20) but Carl didn't warn him, or he could've skipped his long post.
    https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...l=1#post356657

    I posted a reply pointing out the discrepancy in brokenball's use of term(2021/11/22), taken as trolling by Carl.
    https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...l=1#post356858

    Carl then woke up a 4-week-old reply by brokenball with yet another threat(2021/11/24), clearly out of spite to incite a response so he could escalate the situation.
    https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...l=1#post357041

    For the record, Carl didn't rein in brokenball but even joked along with him about trolling other members in another thread(2021/10/23).
    https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...l=1#post354589

    I'm afraid it's advisable for Carl to tone down his moderation. In the past year or two, I can't help but notice he's become less patient and more aggressive in censoring posts, closing threads, and now even banning contributing members. With the direction the moderation is heading, I wonder if it's in the best interest of the forum.

    Below is Baal looking back on his aggressive moderation on MyTT in case you haven't come across it.
    https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...l=1#post336369

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    Last edited by zeio; 12-28-2021 at 03:48 AM.

  2. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #2
    Zieo, I warned you not to engage with BrokenBall. I warned BrokenBall not to engage with you. I told both of you not to reply to each other or post in the same threads. THE REASON, YOU BOTH GO AFTER EACH OTHER FOR NO REASON OTHER THAN TO GO AFTER EACH OTHER. And it is getting old. You guys are both adults and you act like children. IGNORE EACH OTHER.
    ==
    And your response was:
    zeio;357046There's no use avoiding. The thing is he will rub everyone up the wrong way, always. I'll keep engaging him when I feel like it. It's exciting. I always learn something new, not from the bickering or his lecturing(same ol' shit), but from looking up new papers that could potentially benefit my own real world game. Actually, more and more recent papers show that many of the contentious things pros/amateurs have been saying they're doing are not necessarily illusory.
    That is post # 47 in this thread: https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...046#post357046
    ==

    And you both got banned for this. You both got relatively short bans. And my suggestion is that you drop it because, for now YOU ARE NO LONGER BANNED.


    I am fine with you continuing to look things up and researching. But I don't think you and he should keep doing combat with BrokenBall because that is all it is. You troll him, he attacks you and IT NEVER ENDS.


    YOUR RESPONSE IS WHAT GOT YOU A THREE WEEK BAN. YOUR RESPONSE THAT YOU WOULD NOT STOP THE CHILDISH NONSENSE.


    If you keep trolling BrokenBall, you will get banned again. It is too bad because I really like your posts on most things. But you were making BrokenBall worse than he normally is. And I would rather you both be on TableTennisDaily than have either of you not here. But, if you go after BrokenBall again, if you keep trolling BrokenBall just for the sake of trolling him, you will get banned again.


    The 3 week ban was directly because you stated THAT YOU WOULD NOT AVOID BrokenBall, that "There's no use avoiding." That "I'll keep engaging him when I feel like it." This response was after I gave you A SECOND warning.


    If you keep engaging him, you will get banned each time I see it. There is no reason for you to keep trolling him. And it will always be the same argument between you two that goes nowhere.

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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 12-28-2021 at 05:49 AM.
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  3. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #3
    By the way, I want to restate, I really like your posts on most things. You make me laugh and your posts are good. So, I don't want to ban you. But the way you attack and go after BrokenBall, while it has its entertainment value, after a while it gets tired and old and it is clear that it is just childish attacks to get under his skin. So, it would probably make you look a lot better if you just stopped doing it.

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  4. zeio is offline
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    #4
    I beg to differ. Your suggestion is exactly what a child would do. I'm sorry but if that's the "adult thing" to do, you'd have ignored us. Instead, you decided to swing the ban hammer to halt an exchange of opinions not to your liking. Your partial actions call into question your suitability as a mod.

    May I remind you how you addressed pnachtwey in our first PM exchange? That's not how a grown-up should behave, don't you think? How about some moderator action? Despite our differences, I respect pnachtwey as an individual and have never called him by that.
    http://i.imgur.com/eJsp3Ha.png
    http://i.imgur.com/dVgfeOD.png

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  5. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    I beg to differ. Your suggestion is exactly what a child would do. I'm sorry but if that's the "adult thing" to do, you'd have ignored us. Instead, you decided to swing the ban hammer to halt an exchange of opinions not to your liking. Your partial actions call into question your suitability as a mod.

    May I remind you how you addressed pnachtwey in our first PM exchange? That's not how a grown-up should behave, don't you think? How about some moderator action? Despite our differences, I respect pnachtwey as an individual and have never called him by that.
    http://i.imgur.com/eJsp3Ha.png
    http://i.imgur.com/dVgfeOD.png

    Please keep in mind this is an internet forum for open discussion, not a playground for cronyism.

    You can disagree all you want. But I notice, when you attack and troll BrokenBall, you make things worse on the forum. It has nothing to do with whether I agree with you or not. It has to do with the fact that you attack him, it triggers him, he reacts badly, he attacks you, you attack him, and nothing useful comes of it. It is not an exchange of opinions. It is two children behaving badly. If you were interacting with BrokenBall in good faith, things would be different. But you guys are BOTH trying to settle scores from half a decade ago that happened on MyTT. I suggest you grow up and drop it.

    It is true I am treating you a bit like a child. But the reason is, you are behaving like one. In this thread and in how you deal with BrokenBall, you are behaving like a child.

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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 12-28-2021 at 06:49 AM.
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  6. zeio is offline
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    #6
    Beg your pardon? You even encouraged him to carry on with his trolling, but now you allege that I attacked him? Who's acting like a child here?
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  7. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    Beg your pardon? You even encouraged him to carry on with his trolling, but now you allege that I attacked him? Who's acting like a child here?
    There are times when certain versions of trolling are not a big deal. Der_Echte trolls all the time and everyone knows it is not in bad faith and that he is not trying to make anyone look bad.

    I think most of your posts are great. I am entertained by many of them. I think you are intelligent, funny and you also link to a lot of good sources. But when you are posting in response to BrokenBall, it seems to me you are just trying to incite him and get him angry.

    Is this not the case? Do you have a different intention when you respond to BrokenBall? Is there a reason your response to me was that you would not avoid direct conflict with BrokenBall? I am happy to hear you explain why you feel the need to insist that you must be allowed to interact with him.


    Again, the content is not the issue. Often I agree with the content you present when you are interacting with BrokenBall. But, to me, it seems the purpose of your posts is to get under his skin and make him upset. And that is why I feel you and he should avoid each other.

    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 12-28-2021 at 07:16 AM.
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  8. PingBirdPong is offline
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    #8
    Looks like someone broke a ball…
    IMO, watching a perfectly normal equipment suggestion thread turn into a debate of physics is annoying. It also does not help the OP.

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  9. zeio is offline
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    #9
    It seems to you I'm just trying to stir him up when I respond to brokenball?

    Care to go through the threads I linked above again? I backed my posts with studies and useful information that propelled the discussion forward almost every time, which I've been doing for a decade(see the testimonial below). Even in the one over his inconsistent use of the term "hit through", despite his saying it's been taken out of context when actually he, an engineer, never considers others' opinions in context, shows he lacks the technical competency to back his opinion on the subject matter. Now it's a crime to call that out just because "it seems to you"? So, he could troll because you approve yet others are not allowed to engage him because you disapprove? You crossed the line there as a mod with multiple threats directed at both of us, yet I was labeled the instigator and was administered a longer sentence because you feel like it. Where are the checks and balances?

    http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum...uipment#778876
    Man, this zeio guy keeps bringing these scientific studies that are actually about table tennis directly. You can compare how different this above is to the stuff tt4me typed himself, where he didn't even pretend to make a reference to table tennis, but relied that he can get you to trust him if he shocks you with his immense knowledge of valves. Perhaps if we decide to make a hydraulic paddle we can find him useful.
    I am flattered, assiduous. I still have quite a few other exciting studies and patents up my sleeve. It must be made clear that I wasn't really all that interested in these things until pnachtwey(now tt4me) started the "paddle mass and speed" thread some years ago that got me hooked on. So on that I must commend him.
    Last edited by zeio; 12-28-2021 at 12:25 PM.
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    #10
    Hell yeah another deranged thread about nothingness!

  11. zeio is offline
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    #11
    Coming from the one who questioned if a minor is a retard in another deranged thread about nothingness.
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  12. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #12
    It seems to you I'm just trying to stir him up when I respond to brokenball?
    Maybe not always. But a lot of the time you are. And a lot of the time he is trying to get under your skin too. There is a decade's worth of history in your interactions.

    Care to go through the threads I linked above again? I backed my posts with studies and useful information that propelled the discussion forward almost every time.....
    This is true. A lot of the time your posts are great. I think I have said that before. I do appreciate your posts. But a lot of the time there is a "Gotcha" directed at BrokenBall in the middle of that good information. Plenty of times I feel it is appropriate and worth it. It just happens too often and you do look for threads he is pontificating in to cross swards (or scientific studies) with him.

    .....which I've been doing for a decade.....
    I think this is part of the actual problem. It is almost like an old marriage where you each elicit predictable reactions from each other. I don't think he triggers you and get you mad even though he tries. But for sure, you get under his skin and get him mad. There is no question about that.

    Even in the one over his inconsistent use of the term "hit through", despite his saying it's been taken out of context when actually he, an engineer, never considers others' opinions in context, shows he lacks the technical competency to back his opinion on the subject matter.
    I think you have multiple great points here. I thought the hit through comment was dead on when you made it and I think your comment here about how he can't understand information in context presented by others is also pretty accurate. But based on how he responds to you, after a decade, maybe the message is simply coming from the wrong person. That may be unfortunate. But whatever you say, it seems he is going to argue because you have been arguing with each other for so long. Sorry. But to me, that seems to be the case.

    Now it's a crime to call that out just because "it seems to you"?
    It is not a crime. But can you tell me any reason why YOU HAVE TO ALWAYS CALL HIM OUT? In my opinion, if you showed the ability to engage with him without the intention of triggering him, and without simply wanting to make him look bad to other people on the forum.....if there was something constructive in the interaction, then maybe you could change my perspective. But at this point, I think you guys may have too much history behind you. I don't think that is your fault. But you are definitely part of the equation.

    So, he could troll because you approve yet others are not allowed to engage him because you disapprove?
    In the Rubber Hardness thread where you are quoting me referencing trolling BrokenBall had made 14 posts before my post about trolling. And you had made 5 but they were very pointed at BrokenBall. Also, I notice that you did not refer to my comment on your link to Pnachtwey on MyTT from 6 years ago as "priceless" as me encouraging you. And my comment about trolling was absolutely about both of you (Zeio and BrokenBall), especially given your link to posts from Pnachtwey 6 years ago.

    And my comment was also me goofing around and having fun. I am allowed to have fun as a member on the forum, right? Or do I always have to be ONLY THE MODERATOR?

    When I talked about trolling and trolling the trolling, there is no question I was talking about both YOU and BrokenBall. But then, I also was talking about me as I then made a crack: "what is the reduced mass of my stomach" etc. If you are asking for things to be read in context then you should be able to tell I am trying to lighten the mood in the thread and making a joke since you guys were hotly debating reduced mass.

    And read that whole thread and tell my your link to the thread from 6 years ago on MyTT was you NOT TRYING get under get under BrokenBall's skin. Or this quote:

    zeio;354279
    *Sigh* Omniscient engineer is clearly out of his depth here. Let me put you in your place on the other topic.
    Is that NOT DIRECTED at BrokenBall? Is that something other than you trying to get him upset? I do think it is funny. I do think there is a lot of merit to many of your comments towards BrokenBall. I just think, after 10 years of you going after him, maybe we can take a break from DIRECT COMBAT.

    You crossed the line there as a mod with multiple threats directed at both of us....
    I don't think I crossed a line. I asked you guys to stop engaging with each other. You both ignored me. I told you guys, if you continue doing it I would give each of you a ban for a brief period, YOU BOTH IGNORED ME. I warned you again, and you said:

    There's no use avoiding. The thing is he will rub everyone up the wrong way, always. I'll keep engaging him when I feel like it. It's exciting.
    AND THAT IS THE REASON I VIEWED YOU AS THE INSTIGATOR. Asking did not stop you. Warning did not stop you. Warning strongly got the response above. You were pushing the envelope. BrokenBall did not stop either. But he did not tell me he had ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTION OF stopping and he did not tell me he found it exciting to attack you.

    But what were your intentions with the "Omniscient Engineer" quote listed above? Were you giving good scientific information? Or were you trying to push BrokenBall's buttons and get him angry?

    yet I was labeled the instigator and was administered a longer sentence because you feel like it.
    I have explained a few times why I viewed you as the instigator so, I hope it is clear. BrokenBall did not say directly to me: "I'll keep engaging him when I feel like it. It's exciting."

    ==

    Now, feel free to explain to me what your intention is when you make direct comments in response to BrokenBall. If there is a real reason why you feel you need to be able to respond to him, I am happy for you to explain it. I think you will be happier in the long run if you just ignore him. I am 100% confident that since BB has come back from his ban, he has not been as terrible as he was in the run up to his ban where you and he were going at each other tooth and nail for weeks on end. For sure your comments had a much bigger impact on his mood than his comments had on yours.

    However, if you can really explain to me why you think you should be able to engage with BrokenBall, then I am happy to read and take it into consideration. But so far, I feel like you just want to argue and if that was not the case, you may have answered this question when I asked it above.


  13. Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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    #13
    Zeio, i am too lazy to read the whole thread, i just wanna say i'd be upset if you're banned (again), so even if whatever you think about brokenball is right, i think we would all like you to give up this time and think about your next funny posts , they don't need to be about brokenball to be funny.

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    #14
    Eesh calling people with ASD retards isn't a good look lol

  15. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #15
    I want this to be clear: I have nothing against you Zeio. I hope it is also clear I actually really your posts and value you. I did not want to ban you in the first place. But I do feel that things had come to a crescendo when you and BrokenBall both got your brief bans.

    Wouldn't it be possible for you to avoid BrokenBall at least for a few months? You may not realize how much things got stirred up at that time. But I do a lot of looking and reading while not responding. And over and over again, I was seeing interactions between you two that were turning more and more toxic. I don't really think it is a big ask. Just avoid him.

    I do agree with Takkyu's post. You can certainly post all the scientific information you would like without needing for it to be in direct response to BrokenBall and for sure, you can post things that are completely funny without needing it to be in response to or about BrokenBall.

    I have seen posts from you that were informative that had nothing to do with BB and I have seen posts that were hilarious that had nothing to do with BB. It would be great if you tried to understand why I am asking you for this.
    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 12-28-2021 at 01:37 PM.
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  16. Konrad Bak is offline
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    #16
    zeio with legendary status, should have own platform and stop wasting time on TTD and MYTT, like being that good needs to be inde'
    Baal from MYTT suspended my ackount because I don't like Americkan bommunists

  17. zeio is offline
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    #17
    I've gotten a response from Dan and he'll look into this.

    To set the record straight, I'm not trying to change Carl's perspective here, which is subjective to start with, I'm asking for the arbitration of Dan because he's abused his power as the mod to limit my freedom of expression with multiple threats. His starting a thread that limits participation to certain members of his subjective choosing only reinforces that.

    On my interaction with brokenball, I've made my stance clear shortly after joining this forum.
    https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...l=1#post223696

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    #18
    I think instead of a ban for zeio, a more constructive punishment for the whole community would involve him doing some penance. Or that's the old Catholic term, modern sociological term would be community service.

    So Carl, or Dan, whoever, please leave zeio unbanned, but sentence him to translate and subtitle five post-match player interviews for posting here.

    That will teach you! I hope you are happy now. You have only yourself to blame for this. And so on and so forth.

    I'm looking forward to the subtitled vids, really missed those since you stopped doing them.

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    #19
    www cbsnews com / news/tenn-father-charged-with-murdering-couple-whounfriended-daughter-on-facebook/It is crazy as to how people take social media so seriously to the extent of turning psychotic.I am sure the world has 100s if not 1000s of internet horror stories like the link aboveI have seen so many psychopaths, sociopaths & super-bullys come and go on these table tennis forums as well over the past 20 years starting with RSTT despite table tennis players having probably highest levels of formal education as well achievements in their chosen careers. Oh well
    Last edited by Roben; 12-30-2021 at 07:12 PM.

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    #20
    Dan's looking at this going "jesus... can't you just stick to arguing about the cheapest dignics 05 alternatives like normal posters!?"

    😂

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