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  1. davizoosk is offline
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    #1

    The ways to become pro, or something close.

    Well, for those who don't know me, my first topic here is "I'm 15 years old, what's the chance to turn professional?", thinking more about the national team and ittf series.

    It's been almost two years now and I would say I'm in a good environment, I train 4 hours a day 6x a week under the supervision of a great coach recognized in Brazil and my group have much different styles, not exclusively talking about rubber and left or right, but playing styles. We have fitness 2x a week but I'm gradually increasing. And we also have a sports psychologist. But well, I'm about to turn 17 and I'm in my last year of high school.

    It's time to evaluate some choices.

    Well, the national team is still out of the question.

    Right now, I think about some of these things:

    - Play in European leagues or from other countries. Brazil does not have one yet, it is still in the process of being created. I believe it's the hardest but only way to really turn pro above the years. Really the HARDEST one. Almost 99% no 1% yes.


    - Having sponsors to finance things like trips to the national stages and material, or even money. Considering that if I do a good job of marketing on social media, I believe this chance may become more apparent.


    - Having national results and getting an "athlete support" in money that the government of my state gives to some athletes following a series of requirements. I consider this the closest at the moment, and it can hold for a long time if achieved.


    - And well, my ideas are over, considering that there is no University League here either, and only one college in my state provides financial support for athletes.

    Do you have any ideas for think about? Being a pro for me, is not for earn my entire money of tt, but a help with the finances, like travels and material.

    (minus giving up on tt xD)

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    Last edited by davizoosk; 12-28-2021 at 10:34 PM.

  2. davizoosk is offline
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    #2
    I turn 17 on january.
    I started to practice with 15 on 2020.
    i started practice alone on April 2020. Shadow practice and returnboard.
    I started practice on a club on a normal group with coaches on August 2020, 2x week, still doing alone practice everyday or close.
    I started practice on the "advanced group" of my club on January 2021. On this time im arriving on club 3 or 4pm and going out 9pm. On this time i played matches on free match area of club and the group practice 8-9pm. Still doing alone practice some days of week. Most service.
    I started to practice everyday on my actual group on April 2021. 2hrs a day
    4hrs a day, until October.

    So, 1 year and 7 months of total practice and 1 year and 3 months on club practice.
    This is two matches of mine, on Brazil National Championship. My biggest problem is service receive, higher position (no lowing the legs), slow footwork, going without wait the ball, so much fast, and go to flat on ball sometimes. And obvious, nervosism...

    Here have some matches of Brazil National Tournament:

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/8Q7HFCJsZc8Ftp3v9
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/JhmMA9zD31ewNBS46: man this game is so sad, lefty with short pips on bh, the ball comes so much strange when he return topspin and I be scared of attack he have forehand issues and i not attacked on his fh aa im be sad watching this game

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    Last edited by davizoosk; 12-28-2021 at 09:52 PM.

  3. PingBirdPong is online now
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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by davizoosk
    I turn 17 on january.
    I started to practice with 15 on 2020.
    i started practice alone on April 2020. Shadow practice and returnboard.
    I started practice on a club on a normal group with coaches on August 2020, 2x week, still doing alone practice everyday or close.
    I started practice on the "advanced group" of my club on January 2021. On this time im arriving on club 3 or 4pm and going out 9pm. On this time i played matches on free match area of club and the group practice 8-9pm. Still doing alone practice some days of week. Most service.
    I started to practice everyday on my actual group on April 2021. 2hrs a day
    4hrs a day, until October.

    So, 1 year and 7 months of total practice and 1 year and 3 months on club practice.
    This is two matches of mine, on Brazil National Championship. My biggest problem is service receive, higher position (no lowing the legs), slow footwork, going without wait the ball, so much fast, and go to flat on ball sometimes. And obvious, nervosism...

    Here have some matches of Brazil National Tournament:

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/8Q7HFCJsZc8Ftp3v9
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/JhmMA9zD31ewNBS46: man this game is so sad, lefty with short pips on bh, the ball comes so much strange when he return topspin and I be scared of attack he have forehand issues and i not attacked on his fh aa im be sad watching this game

    First of all, you are very very good already.
    now for the things I know from my pro friends:
    Your chances of becoming pro depends on your region. I don’t know about anywhere else, but in China starting after the age of 8 is basically a “no” for any level of pro. Your training is surprisingly frequent, it is close to that of my school team.
    My opinions: I once felt sad I won’t have the chance to be pro too, but I realized that for pros, the sport is played so much in the same manner that it becomes stale. I think our advantage over pros is that we can play how we feel, when we feel, at where we feel.
    Finally… Chase your dreams! I believe you can make it!

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    Modestly, Leo

  4. zxc is offline
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    #4
    It's nice to have dreams but honestly in your case the chances of becoming a pro are close to zero: you've started too late, you don't have any achievements (nationally or internationally) and your level of play at the moment isn't very high (compare it to for example U15 youth championship you can watch on youtube). It's nice to have a hobby but I would think about an alternative career options.

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  5. davizoosk is offline
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    #5
    well, in this tournament on the 5div Team Championship we got third place, it's not much but at least I have something in my curriculum xD

  6. PingBirdPong is online now
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by davizoosk
    well, in this tournament on the 5div Team Championship we got third place, it's not much but at least I have something in my curriculum xD

    If you’ve thought it through and really want to go for it, play as many tournaments as you can, and maybe come to China to train with the Provincial teams at events.

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    Modestly, Leo

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    #7
    Hugo Calderano switched from Tennis to TT. Timo Boll from football to TT. I'm not sure when they made that transition, but I'd guess they didn't cage themselves in the "TT for life" track before getting some tournament results.

    At 17, I'd say university first, play TT second. Better yet, apply to universities in areas where there are active amateur competition. UK/Germany seems great, I remember attending a few in France, but seemed less structured/formal than other places.

    As for training in China, read this thread:
    https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?...11ff08aefe665e

    TLDR: Prove yourself fast or get stuck with hopeful enthusiasts.

  8. NDH is online now
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    #8

    Firstly, never let an online forum change your dreams.

    If you have a 0.01% chance of making it, as long as you have a back up plan, you need to do what you want.

    It doesn’t matter what we think, and it doesn’t matter what age you potentially “make it” as a professional.

    Sure, a lot of professionals start at a younger age, but if you were a millionaire and didn’t need to worry about money, you could turn Pro at 30…..

    My advice would be…..

    1. Make sure you have a solid life plan in some way. An Education, a potential career, an income etc.

    2. If you are serious about becoming a pro, go to University in Europe where you can train 7 days a week (alongside your education).

    3. Don’t think about the money you could earn from being a Pro. It’s not much unless you are a top top player, and I’d guess that a relatively average job in Europe would pay more than most professional table tennis players make.

    Ultimately, in your position, I think a lot of it will come down to how much money you can invest in your training.

    As long as you’ve got your education and future planned, there is no reason to give up on a dream.

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  9. Lula is offline
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    #9
    What is the reason for waiting to become a PRO? Studies show that the intrinsic motivation lessen when you get a an extrinsic motivation like a salary. I have some friends that are or have been full time coaches and I think they still like tabletennis but I do not think they love it as much as people that do not work with it.

    I can imagine people that are playing for a living must love it but It still become their job so I think maybe it do not feel the same. Do not know.

    If you have one life and you really want this then try your best. My recommendations would be try to do something part time like study, work - maybe as a coach and still be able to train.

    I think you should think about playing style and just practice what you use in matchplay. Since starting so late you could catch up by doing this. People train to much irrelevant things that they do not use in match play, that is a waste of time.

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    #10
    I am afraid I do not have anything useful to add, but I just want to commend you for chasing your dream still!
    I have some vague memory of when you first posted your first thread about wanting to become a pro at 15 roughly 1.5 yrs ago. There were so many negative/harsh comments, but they did not deter you from your goal.
    Well done.

    It would still be a really good idea to have some other means to obtain a stable income.

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    #11
    to be pro, I think that you should have a pro coach. Yes, the coach is very important

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    #12
    6 hours a day at least of practice with proper coaching, join higher level leagues. Rain in China if you have money. This will not guarantee younto become a pro but will make you a better player.
    ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor at your service!

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    #13
    The chance to become a pro that is paid to play in leagues is very slim given your age, finance status and current level. As someone said above, if you are a millionaire who can spend loads of money and all your time just to train and become a pro, you have a small chance (like 1%) but you are still worried about money, it’s too hard. Sorry because it sounds negative but I’m just realistic.

    However, you can still be a pro (earning money from table tennis) in other ways:

    - Doing youtube videos, like match highlights, tutorials, reviews, interview, documentaries, fun stuffs… like what Adam Bobrow or Pong Infinity or other youtubers are doing. If you really try, you can definitely generate good income from doing it. Maybe some brands will pay you to promote their products.

    - Become a seller. All table tennis stuffs. Combine with doing youtube, this would be promising.

    - Become a coach (when you are good enough)

    And you can do all of these while still training and enjoying table tennis, playing in competitions…
    Last edited by iammaru; 12-30-2021 at 07:03 PM.

  14. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by davizoosk
    Here have some matches of Brazil National Tournament:

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/8Q7HFCJsZc8Ftp3v9
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/JhmMA9zD31ewNBS46: man this game is so sad, lefty with short pips on bh, the ball comes so much strange when he return topspin and I be scared of attack he have forehand issues and i not attacked on his fh aa im be sad watching this game

    Thanks for posting these matches. You have made great progress.

    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  15. vvk1 is online now
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by davizoosk
    I turn 17 on january.I started to practice with 15 on 2020.i started practice alone on April 2020. Shadow practice and returnboard.I started practice on a club on a normal group with coaches on August 2020, 2x week, still doing alone practice everyday or close.I started practice on the "advanced group" of my club on January 2021. On this time im arriving on club 3 or 4pm and going out 9pm. On this time i played matches on free match area of club and the group practice 8-9pm. Still doing alone practice some days of week. Most service.I started to practice everyday on my actual group on April 2021. 2hrs a day4hrs a day, until October.So, 1 year and 7 months of total practice and 1 year and 3 months on club practice.This is two matches of mine, on Brazil National Championship. My biggest problem is service receive, higher position (no lowing the legs), slow footwork, going without wait the ball, so much fast, and go to flat on ball sometimes. And obvious, nervosism...Here have some matches of Brazil National Tournament:https://photos.app.goo.gl/8Q7HFCJsZc8Ftp3v9https://photos.app.goo.gl/JhmMA9zD31ewNBS46: man this game is so sad, lefty with short pips on bh, the ball comes so much strange when he return topspin and I be scared of attack he have forehand issues and i not attacked on his fh aa im be sad watching this game
    Thank you for posting the videos. Regarding the last game against the lefty with SP on bh - he does not seem like an aggressive SP attacker/puncher, nor does he use the SPs to serve as a variation. He seemed to be a bit passive, all he did with them was push your serves or attempt to block your loops, hoping you'd make an unforced mistake.He only succeeded at blocking your loops when they landed shallow on the table - his blocks went off the table pretty much each time you looped deep and with enough spin.

    Next time you play him or someone using a similar style try staying closer to the table and play into the pips. But always deep and with a lot of spin - when attacking, serving or pushing.

    Watching this video reminded me of something that helped me a lot some years back. Samson Dubina - a very well respected coach from USA - has a very nice summary of what to do against some of the most common playing styles. The link is below. Print it out and put into your bat case. Next time you're about to play someone, identify their style and review the notes - and try to execute the suggested strategies.
    Various Game Styles by Samson Dubina

    Samson also has a somewhat more advanced article on how to handle short pips:
    Devastate the Short Pips Attacker by Samson Dubina

    Good luck!
    Last edited by vvk1; 12-30-2021 at 08:41 PM.

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    #16
    How do you find the short pimple guy choing? Is it for him to make him fight harder or to make you unstable?

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    #17
    Reality check.
    My third coach was Hao Guo or Guo Hao in the west.
    He won a tournament before entering high school and was admitted into a TT academy. I don't know which one. Upon graduation he tried to get on to the national team but was denied. So here is 18 yo with little high school and only really knowing TT.
    He got a sponsor in the US and started coaching at the Portland Table Tennis Club where I would take lesson. After about a year and a half he went back to his home in Tianjin, China but then was refused entry back into the US. He had violated the terms of his student visa. He was a nice guy and fun but the US immigration doesn't care. While he was in the US, he beat Wang Jinxin in the Seattle open in 2015 or 2016. The video is on YouTube. Wang Jinxin had just won the US open a few months before. Hao was a solid 2500 player. We wonder what he is doing now. Very good TT players are a dime a dozen in China. Think about this. The Chinese national team is only a small handle out of 1.4 billion people.

    BTW, Hao never beat me with a 6 ball handicap. It was a real battle at 5 balls but I could never get my handicap down to 4. I had to get him to play handicap games to keep in serious/challenged.
    We miss him and hope he is doing OK. I don't think anybody has heard from him.

    My point is that you must not only be good. You need to be the best of best. Being 1 in a million or even 10 million isn't good enough.



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  18. PingBirdPong is online now
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    Reality check.
    My third coach was Hao Guo or Guo Hao in the west.
    He won a tournament before entering high school and was admitted into a TT academy. I don't know which one. Upon graduation he tried to get on to the national team but was denied. So here is 18 yo with little high school and only really knowing TT.
    He got a sponsor in the US and started coaching at the Portland Table Tennis Club where I would take lesson. After about a year and a half he went back to his home in Tianjin, China but then was refused entry back into the US. He had violated the terms of his student visa. He was a nice guy and fun but the US immigration doesn't care. While he was in the US, he beat Wang Jinxin in the Seattle open in 2015 or 2016. The video is on YouTube. Wang Jinxin had just won the US open a few months before. Hao was a solid 2500 player. We wonder what he is doing now. Very good TT players are a dime a dozen in China. Think about this. The Chinese national team is only a small handle out of 1.4 billion people.

    BTW, Hao never beat me with a 6 ball handicap. It was a real battle at 5 balls but I could never get my handicap down to 4. I had to get him to play handicap games to keep in serious/challenged.
    We miss him and hope he is doing OK. I don't think anybody has heard from him.

    My point is that you must not only be good. You need to be the best of best. Being 1 in a million or even 10 million isn't good enough.
    First of all: Anyone can be pro if they want to, just not the best. There are like 200 that join the Beijing championships, and 30 are professionals. I don’t think “a few out of 1.4 billion” is a good example, because China doesn’t have 1.4 billion players competing for a place on the national team. Also, the national team isn’t the only professional team. There are 34 provincial teams, all with junior and backup teams.
    Second: Guo is a common surname in China, Hao is a common first name. I think your coach’s name is probably Guo Hao.
    BTW:Ma Long has never beaten me, even with no handicap.
    Last edited by PingBirdPong; 12-30-2021 at 10:41 PM.
    Modestly, Leo

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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    First of all: Anyone can be pro if they want to, just not the best. There are like 200 that join the Beijing championships, and 30 are professionals. I don’t think “a few out of 1.4 billion” is a good example, because China doesn’t have 1.4 billion players competing for a place on the national team. Also, the national team isn’t the only professional team. There are 34 provincial teams, all with junior and backup teams.
    Second: Guo is a common surname in China, Hao is a common first name. I think your coach’s name is probably Guo Hao.
    BTW:Ma Long has never beaten me, even with no handicap.

    You are right about the order of the names. We still worry about him. Would a 2500 USATT player make a provincial team?
    Finally, how do you get YouTube access? I was often blocked from accessing YouTube while in China.

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    You are right about the order of the names. We still worry about him. Would a 2500 USATT player make a provincial team?
    Finally, how do you get YouTube access? I was often blocked from accessing YouTube while in China.
    VPN is the answer to all your problems. Hundreds of thousands use it so the government gave up caring.
    Modestly, Leo

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