Confident when training, but s**t when playing

jk1980 said:

Me being a total table tennis beginner I can only point out that random or match like practice is detrimental for beginners.

This is basically how i started table tennis. Whatching a few guys playing and joining them. After 5 weeks I developed a technique that build on hitting the ball late and getting it somehow on the table. Now after getting proper training it is very hard to get rid of stupid things I taught myself by instantly doing random/match like drills. The skill ceiling is pretty low, if you don't know the proper technique in the first place. You will find a way to play the ball but it probably will not be good enough to improve above a park paddler without completely changing and relearning proper technique.

If you are not able to execute the proper technique in a controlled environment consistently you won't improve on it by having random drills. If you think learning to read a game early as a beginner and thereby never learning a proper technique is worth it then this might be your best personal opinion. I have experienced this scenario personally in the last 5 month and in hindsight I would have liked to start with a proper technique before getting used to bad habits that are hard to get rid off.

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The skill of a good coach to move a player from developing the strokes to slowly, incrementally adding small degrees of random into the training and stroke production practice so the player develops the ability to adjust to the incoming ball and maintain good form on strokes would be helpful.

You don't start out with total random drills, you need to work up to that. But the shift from just making the stroke when the ball is fed to you perfectly every time, and slowly working towards the ability to make those shots when your opponent is trying not to let you make those shots, you have to work towards developing that skill over time.

There are ways to still work on the fundamental stroke while having a small element of random involved in the drill so you have to adjust to the incoming ball. As the developing player gets better at keeping form with small amounts of randomness added, the randomness can be slowly amplified. But, the end goal is to be able to keep making good stroke production while reading where the next ball is going and adjusting to it.

UpSideDownCarl said:

The skill of a good coach to move a player from developing the strokes to slowly, incrementally adding small degrees of random into the training and stroke production practice so the player develops the ability to adjust to the incoming ball and maintain good form on strokes would be helpful.

You don't start out with total random drills, you need to work up to that. But the shift from just making the stroke when the ball is fed to you perfectly every time, and slowly working towards the ability to make those shots when your opponent is trying not to let you make those shots, you have to work towards developing that skill over time.

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jk1980 said:

You are totally correct. I was just opposing to the thought that random drills trump controlled block training for beginners. The study that talked about two groups that learned a new skill seems to me like they want to convey that aquiring a totally new skill (like learning table tennis) would be more efficient with random drills. That is what i got from some of the videos posted here and that is what i wouldn't agree with.

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Dominikk85 said:

Sometimes I think it is really underperforming in matches due to mental issues but it could also be that in training you face lesser quality of spin, ball speed and variation (for example in a drill where you know which ball is coming).

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It is worth understanding the difference between hitting with someone who is hitting in a way where they are trying to make it so you can make a good return and playing a match where your opponent is trying to make it so you have a harder time returning the ball.

It is quite normal for a player of a certain level, playing someone higher level, to feel they just kept messing up and giving away easy points, while not understanding what the opponent was doing to cause that player to make those mistakes.

In racket sports, if you are playing someone who is higher level than you, any time you make a mistake or mess up in a rally, you should be trying to figure out what your opponent did and how he caused you to make those mistakes, rather than only seeing what you did yourself. So much of improving in racket sports is learning to watch, see and understand what your opponent has just done. There is a reason why, when serving, the reset is as important or more important than the serve: you should be ready to watch how your opponent receives your serve, before your serve bounces on his side of the table.

Same with in any kind of rally, after you make your shot, you should reset fast enough to be able to watch the ball and your opponent before your shot lands on the opponent's side.

When you start being able to do that, the random element that happens in matches becomes somewhat more manageable. The reset is the key and how fast it has to be for you to be ready to observe before your opponent is taking his shot. You can't read what your opponent is doing if you don't see what he is doing.

And it is worth understanding that: when you are training and someone is feeding you balls so you know where they are going and are ready for them.....this scenario is not at all like what happens when you are playing a match and your opponent is trying to make it so you do not know what is coming or how to respond to it. These scenarios are not at all alike.

Dominikk85 said:

What does that reset thing mean? Not sure I understand that

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Brs said:

Adjacent to Carl's point - does the OP's training incorporate serve and receive? If it does not that is 120% of the reason his match play is so much worse.

Serve and receive is basically the only thing that matters in a match. Only if the players are nearly equal in these skills does rallying ability affect the outcome.

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It took me too long to realize this, but this will be my next big change in my practice times. I mostly focused on a specific stroke or drill, like opening loops or flick or something. But when I play an actual game, 95% of times that I lose a game it is distinctly because I couldn't get a handle on how to return the serve. Also, it's not that I don't have the skill/stroke to return the serve. But rather the bigger problem is that I don't know which stroke should be used to return the serve.

I played 10 years tennis and 10 years badminton, and those 2 sports are WAY easier to get into a proper rally. Only table tennis has this extreme serve situation that is extremely hard to read, extremely hard to handle, and has extremely short time to react to.

Michael Zhuang said:

I actually wish the sport could be changed somehow to make the service return less extreme. But since that's not gonna happen, I guess the only way to solve my issue is to practice service return non-stop until I get a handle on it.

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latej said:

It already has.

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Michael Zhuang said:

I know. But the sport still feels imbalanced. A lot more serve/return errors and hard to get into good rallies.

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latej said:

There is no need to blame anything or anyone else but ...

Don't be discouraged by weak receives. Just work on your serve. (Later, don't be discouraged if you feel you won only thanks to your serve ) Btw. from what USDC and Brs said, follows that the most important "reset" is right after you serve. Watch what the good players do, how/where they move/jump after (or as part of) service motion. There is so many things to work on, that there is no time to complain

Oh, you can do all of that kind of brain-dead. Just brute force. I like to do things brute force I spend my brain during work, in TT, incl. training, I don't want to think that much. Well, I'm not that good. At least I can say, I haven't even started using my brain yet

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Michael Zhuang said:

Well I'm not really trying to blame anyone. But just coming from 10 years of badminton, I find that TT is just so darn frustrating. When I miss a return or pop up a return, I want to pull my hair out. When I win those easy points on my own serve, I don't feel the satisfaction of earning a point. I played those 10 years of badminton in Japan, and we always had middle school little girls playing long rallies against 60 year old adults and it was fun and easy to get into a rhythm and rally. Anybody could get into the game, and there were not really hair-pulling moments. I miss that type of atmosphere. In TT, its just serve and point, serve and point.

Also I don't really understand the reset strategy. After I serve, I'm usually waiting for a long ball to loop against. But if the ball gets pushed short, I am unprepared and get into trouble.

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He just means turning around after you serve, into a posture that prepares you for the possible returns. And you need to be ready at least by the time your serve bounces on the other side of the net, if not sooner. Or else you will be very late reacting to the receive.

The same thing applies after every shot, like Carl said. It's not as extreme as after serving because you probably aren't standing sideways to the table. But players reset their feet and balance, recover into their neutral stance, and if necessary move to cover the possible angles of return. A lot to do in .5 second.