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    #1

    Least Spin Sensitive Inverted Rubber 45-55 deg

    What is the least spin sensitive you have used?

    I’ve been using Vega Pro + Rozena and these are great. Rozena more catapult for the backhand and Vega Pro to be able to generate better spin and power on forehand. Are there any other considerations in 45-55 deg range?

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    #2
    Rozena is really good. Also Dignics 64, Stiga Mantra, Yasaka Hovering Dragon... these are really spin insensitive and Mantra, Hovering dragon are rather cheap too. Xiom Vega Asia could be included and DHS H3 and H8 too ,but the Hurricanes require very different playstyle.

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    #3

    Thank you! Yes I understand what you mean about H3/H8, a more spin blocking technique required otherwise blocks were too harmless at least for me.

    Hovering Dragon sounds interesting, good suggestion, I’ll check it out. You believe this is more spin insensitive compared to Rakza 7 out of the Yasaka range?


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    #4
    I think it is easier to use than Rakza 7 on BH. Hovering Dragon is better for blocking and receiving and it's is a really light rubber. It's good for smashing and just wrist open ups and flicks. I think it's a kind of annoying rubber for the opponent in that regards. I used the medium hard version for BH and the hard on FH, the difference between them is a lot. I would keep the medium hard for BH myself. For forehand I don't think it's that suitable... If you play like Mima Ito on FH it would be great too.

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    Last edited by Zwill; 01-15-2022 at 08:16 AM.

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    #5
    @Zwill I read through your great review on MyTT.net, very informative. (http://mytabletennis.net/forum/yasak...opic89471.html)

    HD sounds like an extremely upgraded AK47 Red being lightweight and med-hard. I think I will pass unless I can try first which seems unlikely as it’s not readily stocked outside China region.

    The marketing description doesn’t inspire confidence/credibility being “Chinese Stickiness” when clearly it is not, why even put it there in the first place…

    Seems I am on the right track in terms of insensitive rubber. Dignics is out of my budget range. Mantra M/H is probably too low throw and stocks are running low. I didn’t realise Mantra was one of the last Made in Japan from Stiga before they pivoted to ESN Germany.

    With Vega Asia I found the softer topsheet would react with the ball more compared to Vega Pro. Interestingly same thing with Vega X with its firmer topsheet. VP seems to be the most balanced for what I’m looking for on forehand it seems. Also stock availability is still excellent.
    Last edited by ZFT; 01-16-2022 at 12:46 AM.

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    #6
    The older generation rubbers are all less spin sensitive.

    Donic F1
    Rakza 7
    T64
    Vega Europe
    Nimbus
    Aurus

  7. davizoosk is offline
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    #7
    if you want hard rubber with no much spin sensitive, gewo nexxus el pro 53 hard, if you have a full and powerful stroke, use this on fh

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    #8
    I went away and tested quite a few rubbers in the past few months. All in max sponge.

    Rakza 7 is extremely good for BH. For FH lacks power due to not enough topsheet hardness (or is it stiffness?). FH loop driving is erratic for me and not confidence inducing. Spin insensitivity excellent for a pure blocking game as well as having more than adequate spin in comparison to Rozena.

    Gold Arc 8 topsheet is slightly more tougher vs R7 and is just as spin insensitive. I used 50 deg version and appreciated the extra power vs R7 which meant I could use on FH as well. On BH can be a direct upgrade path from the already excellent R7.
    Overall a great rubber with an INSANE price to performance ratio. It’s not all positive though, on FH it is just missing a stable highest top gear and is quite susceptible to humidity. If it came in 52.5-55 deg I would definitely jump in, keeping 50 on BH.

    Dignics 05 - borrowed/played for 2 hours and is as advertised. Seems to auto-correct errors where the ball finds its way onto the table. Slightly spin sensitive though the technology overcomes it. Price is the biggest deterrent.

    Rakza Z EH - after using D05 I had a feeling the right FH hardness for me is 40 deg BTY scale / ~53 ESN which proved to be the case once I mounted RZ EH onto my main bat. It’s too spin sensitive for my liking, though attacking wise it’s 👍

    Looking at MX-D as a cheaper D05 alternative. In saying this I’ll probably end up going back to Vega Pro as although sponge is 47.5, in combination with topsheet it feels much harder.


    Last edited by ZFT; 03-15-2022 at 04:59 PM.

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    #9
    Another update:

    Purchased MX-D in Red Max when T11 listed as a weekly sale.

    I have to say this rubber is excellent. Reminds me of speed glue era when I had Bryce 2.1 speed glued with 2 layers on Tamca5000 (I oscillated between Primorac Carbon/Gergely21) as was the trend then. The click sound is amazing and gives a positive auditable feedback upon hitting within the sweetspot. Puts a real smile on my face

    MX-D is not very spin sensitive and has a higher trajectory compared to Gold Arc 8 50. Grips the ball better as well and less affected by humidity.

    MX-D is a great attacking grippy type rubber. It does not seem to get the love it should deserve.

    My attacking efficiency has increased. I would rather get the ball in consistently with stability with medium to medium-high spin in loops and be able to defend effectively as well.

    Yes, tacky hybrids/H3 are better when you can get in first and attack all time though the trade off in spin sensitivity when needing to defend is not worth it in my case and the amount of training required. My weakness is my blocking and controlling spinny loops. In celluloid era with the extra spin, the hinoki catapult passive down block solved this weakness for me but now is too slow.

  10. jammmail is offline
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    #10
    Were you using MX-D on BH?

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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jammmail
    Were you using MX-D on BH?

    I used it for like 1.5 month on FH and now use it on BH for ~6 month

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  12. jammmail is offline
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by cytivrat

    I used it for like 1.5 month on FH and now use it on BH for ~6 month

    Is your take similar to ZFT? Not very spin sensitive and stable (i take that as linear?)?


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    #13
    729 Focus III Snipe

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by jammmail

    Is your take similar to ZFT? Not very spin sensitive and stable (i take that as linear?)?

    Well, it is hard to tell so it won't be short and with lots of probably unnecessary details.
    I ordered first MX-D in April 2021, glued it on my blade approximately in the middle of August, started using as bh rubber at the start of October. First impressions were that it was harder to get spin from it than it was from mx-p (well, there was good amount of spin, but I simply didn't feel it, maybe due to hardness, hard to explain it, but I had no problems with opening loops against backspin, it just felt weird) and that it is quite hard.
    I ordered second one at the end of February 2022, glued it on my blade 3 weeks ago. And it feels now like I can easily get the similar amount of spin and that it is quite soft.
    So it might be that it simply gets harder with time or it might be different water-based glue (first one was butterfly free chack pro, second one was dhs, very liquid dhs) or it might be inconsistency in rubber (I suspect that first option is more likely than others). Need more time and more rubbers to be sure about that.

    Now about impressions. Yes, it is not very spin sensitive, more liniar than t05 and mx-p, fast, stable, allows to handle opponent speed and spin (actually I became more consistent in counter attacks with it, it is obviously not only about rubber, but training as well, but rubber part is big enough too), nice for blocking, lower throw angle than t05 and mx-p.
    What is not that good, is that if I do proper stroke then I get proper result, if do improper stroke - I get bad result. Margin between proper and improper strokes is smaller than it was with mx-p and t05 (and bryce with 2 layers of speed glue too). That was more noticeable with the first rubber, second one is a little bit more forgiving in this department. On one hand, it was not very comfortable at first, I had to control my strokes with my mind much more than I used to do, on the other hand, it resulted in better consistency in my bh over time, and I don't need to be that concentrated on a proper moves now.
    Hopefully that makes some sense

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  15. WingTT is offline
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    #15
    I have not tried this personally but if you want something that is spin insensitive to the level of pips, then you may want to check out the Nittaku Goriki Kaisoku.

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    #16
    play it on 2.0 mm on bh.
    short trajectory (a bit like sp),good speed,and grippy as well.
    You have to work with the incoming spin,if you can do that,its awesome!
    Its somewhat insensitive,but no Anti,Sp,etc...and it is hard.
    Last edited by Haraold; 04-09-2022 at 12:00 AM.

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ZFT
    What is the least spin sensitive you have used?
    Any anti ? 😃

    Seriously I assume you are talking about among spinny inverted rubbers. So based on that my theory is that any rubber that can produce more spin with any mechanism (top sheet or sponge or speed glue or boosting) will also be equally more sensitive to incoming spin. Of course most manufacturers would like you think otherwise & believe that their rubber can do it all. On the flip side, an anti rubber is the least senistive to incoming spin but anti can also produce far less spin on its own, keeping in mind that any possible spin reversal is NOT the same as spin production.

    Ok I am adding an update. Any defensive inverted rubber like RITC TackSpeed 2000 is the least senstive to incoming spin. I am a lousy blocker & but whatever way I block using RITC 2000 I just can't miss. I think the length of the (inverted) pips is very small on defensive rubbers like RITC 2000. Of course you can only chop well using RITC 2000 and the loops are too soft (& slow)
    Last edited by XinXu; 04-11-2022 at 07:28 PM.

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    #18
    No anti, only normal inverted type. For anti info the best forum is OOAK. Even if it’s off topic I don’t think anti manufacturers list sponge hardness and obviously would not be 45-55 deg as they go toward mainly softer lighter more dampening sponges.

    You are probably right about pip structure having a major impact on spin sensitivity - T25 wider spacing being less spin sensitive compared to the spacing of T05 as an example.

    Regarding TackSpeed 2000 I’m guessing it might be an older sheet or at the very least on the hardest possible sponge?

    In my experience, anything with a semblance of tack reacts more with incoming spin, especially passive block against heavy topspin. Due to this weakness, at the intermediate to pro level most people I’ve seen using tacky that could block well would choose sponge hardness 38-41 DHS scale which would convert to around 48-57+ ESN. Softer end of this scale you would see more advanced spin block technique being used to control the spin by overcoming it with your own. Watching Ma Long with 37 deg H3, almost all of his BH blocks are of the active variety.

    My technique and feel for the ball is not built around spin blocking - I use more downward forceful blocking.

    Any further suggestions appreciated !

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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ZFT
    No anti, only normal inverted type. For anti info the best forum is OOAK. Even if it’s off topic I don’t think anti manufacturers list sponge hardness and obviously would not be 45-55 deg as they go toward mainly softer lighter more dampening sponges.

    You are probably right about pip structure having a major impact on spin sensitivity - T25 wider spacing being less spin sensitive compared to the spacing of T05 as an example.

    Regarding TackSpeed 2000 I’m guessing it might be an older sheet or at the very least on the hardest possible sponge?

    In my experience, anything with a semblance of tack reacts more with incoming spin, especially passive block against heavy topspin. Due to this weakness, at the intermediate to pro level most people I’ve seen using tacky that could block well would choose sponge hardness 38-41 DHS scale which would convert to around 48-57+ ESN. Softer end of this scale you would see more advanced spin block technique being used to control the spin by overcoming it with your own. Watching Ma Long with 37 deg H3, almost all of his BH blocks are of the active variety.
    I was not looking for any anti info. I was only just joking about spin sensitivity

    Anyway TackSpeed 2000 is one of the most popular rubbers in China from 38 ball period for amateurs. I tried it but never continued with it because for forehand I want a more powerful rubber. On backhand I do not use inverted. I am sure it will still be a good chopping rubber. if one still uses that now extinct style

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    #20
    Oh I get what you mean, sorry went way over my head….


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