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  1. Ktandean is offline
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    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo
    Special Attribute: Immune to Sneak Attack

    and also illegal serves 😂


    Imagine this scenario. The opponent will serve a sidespin or side with underspin from his BH side to my BH side and I safely pushes or block back. Then he will continue to drive or push towards my BH side forcing me deeper and deeper into my BH side. Once I am deep enough, he will loop / drive or push long to my FH side and I get stuck on my BH side and lose a point. The process then gets repeat and rinse and that is my curse. Without the ability to open up from my BH, I will be stuck here always. My clubmates knows very well my weakness and exploit it to the max. They never never push to the mid table nor my FH side at the start of the rally.

    When you know (by now I believe you should be able to tell instinctively) that you are about to get pushed deep and shitted the other way, try to pivot and loop kill it? That should catch them off guard for a few points (and possibly disrupt their morale too).
    I personally love it when the ball bounces out wildly from my opponent's racket due to a heavy topspin. Makes you feel unstoppable.

    Last edited by Ktandean; 01-25-2022 at 07:31 AM.
    Spincerely yours,
    KT

  2. Ktandean is offline
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    #42


    The first 10 seconds is all you need to see
    Spincerely yours,
    KT

  3. Gozo is offline
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    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Ktandean

    and also illegal serves 😂



    When you know (by now I believe you should be able to tell instinctively) that you are about to get pushed deep and shitted the other way, try to pivot and loop kill it? That should catch them off guard for a few points (and possibly disrupt their morale too).
    I personally love it when the ball bounces out wildly from my opponent's racket due to a heavy topspin. Makes you feel unstoppable.

    I know about this, I even do this but my success rate is low, around 10%. Hence at this point in time it does not form part of my regular arsenal yet. I hope I can be better in future. However, my coach seems to be going towards me opening up using BH rather than pivot. I am just speculating, maybe in future he will do this drill with me. I hope he does, pivot and then loop kill is such a spectacular move it makes me gush with adrenaline and release tonnes of endorphine ( feel good hormone )

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  4. IB66 is offline
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    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo
    I know about this, I even do this but my success rate is low, around 10%. Hence at this point in time it does not form part of my regular arsenal yet. I hope I can be better in future. However, my coach seems to be going towards me opening up using BH rather than pivot. I am just speculating, maybe in future he will do this drill with me. I hope he does, pivot and then loop kill is such a spectacular move it makes me gush with adrenaline and release tonnes of endorphine ( feel good hormone )
    Played the match in the higher division, won 2 and the doubles 😀
    Lost one to a fella that I haven't beaten in 3 previous matches, went in too 'gung ho' !!!! made too many mistakes, went for speed / power rather than spin and positioning!!
    The other 2 opponents were new players I hadn't played before, Calmed down, played slow top spin open-ups both FH and BH, neither could handle the spin!!! Ended up fairly easy wins!! before this match, my match average was 11%, theirs 56% and 66% so a couple of good wins against reasonable players in this division. happy bunny last night!!!😁 (even though we lost 6-4, 3 other games went to the 5th end, all pretty tight as well, match could have gone either way!!
    My BH open-ups have started to improve as far as consistency and spin levels are concerned, still way more work to do, but as my confidence rose during the matches so did the shot quality. even after a few consecutive mistakes I stuck with it and was able to get the open-ups back on and working well.

    Stick with the BH open-ups, it will pay off in the end. Once bedded in your coach will turn to another aspect of your game.

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  5. NDH is offline
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    #45
    Quote Originally Posted by IB66
    Played the match in the higher division, won 2 and the doubles 😀
    Lost one to a fella that I haven't beaten in 3 previous matches, went in too 'gung ho' !!!! made too many mistakes, went for speed / power rather than spin and positioning!!
    The other 2 opponents were new players I hadn't played before, Calmed down, played slow top spin open-ups both FH and BH, neither could handle the spin!!! Ended up fairly easy wins!! before this match, my match average was 11%, theirs 56% and 66% so a couple of good wins against reasonable players in this division. happy bunny last night!!!😁 (even though we lost 6-4, 3 other games went to the 5th end, all pretty tight as well, match could have gone either way!!
    My BH open-ups have started to improve as far as consistency and spin levels are concerned, still way more work to do, but as my confidence rose during the matches so did the shot quality. even after a few consecutive mistakes I stuck with it and was able to get the open-ups back on and working well.

    Stick with the BH open-ups, it will pay off in the end. Once bedded in your coach will turn to another aspect of your game.

    Just think of all those TT League ranking points!

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  6. IB66 is offline
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    #46
    Quote Originally Posted by NDH

    Just think of all those TT League ranking points!

    Cheers NDH,

    Yeah!! makes a change to seeing '0' points gained!!!!

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    #47
    Hi Gozo,

    Hows the training and match performance going?

    I’ve still been having regular lessons, one 2hr session every other week, and then maybe 2no 1hr sessions with other players of a similar standard to me, each week, where we use similar routines to those I do with my coach.
    Things are definitely getting better regarding consistency for me, but still way off what I need or would like to achieve!!!

    Regarding match play, I have definitely raised my level, but this is subjective to the standard of opponent!!
    I play in 3 leagues.
    1) 1st is in a Prem Division of a league, my win % is about 6%, to give an idea of the step up in level, pre lockdown I was playing Div 3 in this league!! No wonder I’m struggling!!!!!
    2) 2nd is 1st Div of a comparable league to the league above, this leagues Prem Div is on par or better than the other leagues Prem Div. win % = 40%, so for me this is a much better standard for me, win some loose some, pushed hard to get a win, but opponents have to play well to win as well.
    3rd league, is Div 1 of a league that is not as tough, this leagues Prem Div would be similar to the 1st Div of leagues 1)&2) and Div 1 is much lower, maybe similar to Div 2 or 3 in the first 2 leagues mentioned. Win% = 88% played 24 lost 3. So this is too easy, the only reason I played this league was so the club I play for could get a team out, the 1st team folded so I played for the 2nd team which still only had 2 players other than myself at the start of the season!!

    One of the things I have noticed is that consistency is key, this is seen in training and matches.
    there’s been a number of matches where I play really well for 1 or 1 1/2 ends but lose the other ends pretty easily because of unforced errors a lot of the time. When I do win an end it’s 75% of the time one sided, I win 11-4, 11-5 etc a feel pretty comfortable!!! Of course there’s tight ends as well but these are when my consistency drops slightly rather than totally!!!
    For example played one guy, won 1st end game 7 (I was a little surprised!!) lost the 2nd game 0 !!!(even more surprised!!!🤬)
    During training there are periods where I can’t miss followed by periods where I can’t hit the ball or table!!!

    Positives are that even if I’m not winning many in the Prem Division league, I’m giving the opponents more trouble as the season has gone on, so results may not generally show as positive stat wise, but generally my level is gradually rising.
    A lot of teams field the same players home and away, and I can see that I’m winning more points against the same opponent 2nd match compared to 1st match, still not enough to win though!!

    At one point I wanted to stop playing in the Prem Div, thoughts of letting team mates down, not winning any games etc can get on top of you, but my fellow team mates have backed me up and encouraged me to keep playing!!

    The other thing that my coach helps to install is CONFIDENCE, this has been a big plus, even though I may not perform as ‘I can or should’ during the training session or matches he always emphasises the positives and keeps encouraging me.

    I hope you are getting on well and I am looking forward to your thoughts on how things have gone for you!!



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  8. Gozo is offline
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    #48
    Quote Originally Posted by IB66
    Hi Gozo,

    Hows the training and match performance going?

    I’ve still been having regular lessons, one 2hr session every other week, and then maybe 2no 1hr sessions with other players of a similar standard to me, each week, where we use similar routines to those I do with my coach.
    Things are definitely getting better regarding consistency for me, but still way off what I need or would like to achieve!!!

    Regarding match play, I have definitely raised my level, but this is subjective to the standard of opponent!!
    I play in 3 leagues.
    1) 1st is in a Prem Division of a league, my win % is about 6%, to give an idea of the step up in level, pre lockdown I was playing Div 3 in this league!! No wonder I’m struggling!!!!!
    2) 2nd is 1st Div of a comparable league to the league above, this leagues Prem Div is on par or better than the other leagues Prem Div. win % = 40%, so for me this is a much better standard for me, win some loose some, pushed hard to get a win, but opponents have to play well to win as well.
    3rd league, is Div 1 of a league that is not as tough, this leagues Prem Div would be similar to the 1st Div of leagues 1)&2) and Div 1 is much lower, maybe similar to Div 2 or 3 in the first 2 leagues mentioned. Win% = 88% played 24 lost 3. So this is too easy, the only reason I played this league was so the club I play for could get a team out, the 1st team folded so I played for the 2nd team which still only had 2 players other than myself at the start of the season!!

    One of the things I have noticed is that consistency is key, this is seen in training and matches.
    there’s been a number of matches where I play really well for 1 or 1 1/2 ends but lose the other ends pretty easily because of unforced errors a lot of the time. When I do win an end it’s 75% of the time one sided, I win 11-4, 11-5 etc a feel pretty comfortable!!! Of course there’s tight ends as well but these are when my consistency drops slightly rather than totally!!!
    For example played one guy, won 1st end game 7 (I was a little surprised!!) lost the 2nd game 0 !!!(even more surprised!!!🤬)
    During training there are periods where I can’t miss followed by periods where I can’t hit the ball or table!!!

    Positives are that even if I’m not winning many in the Prem Division league, I’m giving the opponents more trouble as the season has gone on, so results may not generally show as positive stat wise, but generally my level is gradually rising.
    A lot of teams field the same players home and away, and I can see that I’m winning more points against the same opponent 2nd match compared to 1st match, still not enough to win though!!

    At one point I wanted to stop playing in the Prem Div, thoughts of letting team mates down, not winning any games etc can get on top of you, but my fellow team mates have backed me up and encouraged me to keep playing!!

    The other thing that my coach helps to install is CONFIDENCE, this has been a big plus, even though I may not perform as ‘I can or should’ during the training session or matches he always emphasises the positives and keeps encouraging me.

    I hope you are getting on well and I am looking forward to your thoughts on how things have gone for you!!
    Good day to you IB66,

    I am getting along just fine and thank you for asking. I see you are busy and have plenty of TT action in real matches. Good for you. I hope you get tonnes of fun out of it and plenty of exercise.

    I will show you a short YT vid of my latest coaching session that I had last Sat, 26th Mar 2022. This is a clip of my BH open ups against backspin cuts.

    It would be great if you have vids of your matches, as they say, a picture speaks a thousand words. In our case a video speaks ten thousand words.

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  9. jammmail is offline
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    #49
    I can totally understand what you say IB66 and similar to my journey this season in a way - though with a little one I couldn't play 3 different leagues, if i wanted to stay married! :-)Sometimes progress is hard to see ourselves and solely through results it can be difficult but teammates - and players you don't play so frequently are good to get a gauge from.Unfortunately my team just missed out on promotion in the final week after being in the spot most of the season. At first I was pretty disappointed as there were games I could have won that I missed out on that probably would have been enough. But I'm seeing it as an opportunity to try and win those tricky games I let slide last season.

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    Last edited by jammmail; 03-30-2022 at 03:45 PM.

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    #50
    Quote Originally Posted by jammmail
    I can totally understand what you say IB66 and similar to my journey this season in a way - though with a little one I couldn't play 3 different leagues, if i wanted to stay married! :-)Sometimes progress is hard to see ourselves and solely through results it can be difficult but teammates - and players you don't play so frequently are good to get a gauge from.Unfortunately my team just missed out on promotion in the final week after being in the spot most of the season. At first I was pretty disappointed as there were games I could have won that I missed out on that probably would have been enough. But I'm seeing it as an opportunity to try and win those tricky games I let slide last season.

    In the Prem Division we had a couple of 5-4 losses this season, in those matches I didn’t pick up any games, so you blame yourself for the ‘loss’, but in reality we picked up 4 points!!
    Sometimes it’s good to take a step back and reflect on things, so if I had picked up one game In both of those matches, we would have won 5 - 4, and got 5 points per match. 2 additional points.
    Looking back at this years table, if I had picked up 1 game per match, I played 10 matches ( I won 2 games) so that would mean another 8 games won = 8 points for the team, but this still wouldn’t have made any difference to the position we are in at present. As the lads pointed out!! Reality check!!!

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    #51
    Main problem that people do while doing FH is lifting the elbow too much, the elbow should be locked in and you should move the elbow back by just imagining as if you were doing a seated cable row.

    Can be clearly seen here at 1:55 where Miyu Kato is moving the arm back and keeping the elbow locked in and moving it backwards.




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    #52
    Do not try to do the same mistakes when it comes to FH technique that Benedikt Duda does almost all the time like he does here at 7:16. There's no way he could ever hit the ball the way he swings his arm which is all off, it's no wonder why he keeps missing the ball all the time and looks really stupid when he wonders why his FH isn't working. You have to swing arm as if your elbow was cycling through the pedal on the bicycle or imagine as if you're doing a seated cable row.

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    #53
    Quote Originally Posted by bzing
    Do not try to do the same mistakes when it comes to FH technique that Benedikt Duda does almost all the time like he does here at 7:16. There's no way he could ever hit the ball the way he swings his arm which is all off, it's no wonder why he keeps missing the ball all the time and looks really stupid when he wonders why his FH isn't working. You have to swing arm as if your elbow was cycling through the pedal on the bicycle or imagine as if you're doing a seated cable row.
    Match play requires all sorts of different techniques, it's silly for you to insult these professional players and fantasize that you have a better grip on technique than their real world experience. Aruna has demolished his way through this tournament with a forehand where his elbow frequently ends above and nearly behind his head. Players develop technique through feeling and experience, not by adhering to a rigid standard that may not be applicable in every situation.

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  14. mihalichtheone is offline
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    #54
    Quote Originally Posted by JediJesseS
    Match play requires all sorts of different techniques, it's silly for you to insult these professional players and fantasize that you have a better grip on technique than their real world experience. Aruna has demolished his way through this tournament with a forehand where his elbow frequently ends above and nearly behind his head. Players develop technique through feeling and experience, not by adhering to a rigid standard that may not be applicable in every situation.

    I do not think the author of the post implied that he himself has better technique, but it's true that on the highest level you have to be optimal with your shots, meaning nearly perfect preparation for the shot with your footwork, explosion of the core, wrist movement and relaxation.

    It's also true that Quadri and other players playing with the 'stiffer' arm and a little improper elbow movements can achieve a lot and may be even win a tournament here and there, but probably not to the level of consistency of Ma Long or other mechanically perfect Chinese players. That's an actual reason why Chinese dominate table tennis - it's near perfect technique + tactics/strategy.

    I do not want to disregard stars like Timo Boll or Jan Ove Waldner, but these shined in their own very very unique way of feeling and reading the game really really well. You can tell that by simply comparing numbers: stars of China vs the world.


  15. NDH is offline
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    #55
    Quote Originally Posted by mihalichtheone

    I do not think the author of the post implied that he himself has better technique, but it's true that on the highest level you have to be optimal with your shots, meaning nearly perfect preparation for the shot with your footwork, explosion of the core, wrist movement and relaxation.

    The issue with analysis of professionals in a sport like Table Tennis, is that the game moves incredibly fast, and the vast majority of people watching and commenting, have no real idea of what it's like to play at that standard.

    Understanding the "textbook" principles of something, and actually applying them in real world situations are very different.

    I don't follow Duda, I have no idea how consistent he is..... But.... He is playing at a very high professional level, so I really don't think anything should be ruled out - Even his "less than optimal" forehand technique.

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    #56
    Pause the video at 0:50 for example you can see Quadri Aruna is engaging the upper back muscles quite well by keeping his delts tight when swinging his arm for the FH stroke which along with the right timing of footwork gives you that momentum to drive the ball forward.

    Benedikt Duda however his swing is completely off and doesn't engage his upper back muscles even though he's obviously a better player than all of us because of how much he trains, but it doesn't necessarily mean that his technique is perfect, he's brushing the ball upward which causes a lot of misses rather than drive the ball forward, hence he's always doing poorly in FH loop to loop rallies.

    Similar arm movement by keeping delts and engaging upper back muscles can also be observed in Ma Long recent matches in particular.
    Last edited by bzing; 03-31-2022 at 01:07 PM.

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    #57
    Aruna lost, must be the ugly looking greenish rubber. 😁

    Cheers
    L-zr

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  18. Gozo is offline
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    #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    Aruna lost, must be the ugly looking greenish rubber. 😁

    Cheers
    L-zr

    Nooooooooooooooooo.........


  19. Gozo is offline
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    #59
    I am one of those unfortunate souls who can stroke the a most textbook perfect FH loop but when it comes to match play it all crumble away. Other club mates who cannot stroke properly sometimes can gain the upper hand in a match. Strange but true.

    Explanation: Textbook perfect stroke happens when the opponent is cooperating with you. In real match, opponent is purposely competing against you. He will purposely give a short ball or a long fast ball or a wide angle ball to mess up your distance, your timing etc. That is why expecting a textbook perfect FH loop is an exercise in futility.


  20. Gozo is offline
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    #60
    Hi all,

    I first wrote this in Jan 2022 and I experienced the growing pain of getting better at TT.

    It is now end of Apr22 and I thought of just give all of you a quick update on my progress.

    I would love to show some match play video but it may not be so easy to get consent from my opponent as many are camera-shy and privacy issue.

    I am getting much better a rally and receiving service. Not fully functional but good enough to initiate rally ( loop to loop ). It is much for fun now and even if I lose the match I am still very happy at my progress if I can get 4 or 5 loop to loop rally in-between. Previously it was one or two shots and the point ends coz' I wasn't able to return the ball properly.

    Overall, I am happy with my progress and having the ability to rally is so much fun than just kill the ball out-right, at least for me. It seems my favourite part of the game is getting into loop to loop rally and winning points with a good powerful topspin mid or far distance.

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