Topspin or flat hit?

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Hello!


Do you think this is a top or a flat hit?

Slow motion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrJIPI4gAHQ

I can see that the ball rotates and goes into the table thanks to the spin on it...

Normal speed:
https://youtu.be/7ep_1dXSaOw?t=74

By the way: I use Victas TDE 57.5º black on drive, very explosive sound, very hard rubber. Chinese sticky type

Hello Marcos
In my opinion it is definitely fh loop against high bounce backspin ball. This is the right way to attack a ball like this, because 40+ balls are heavier than celluloid, so when attacking it open bat angle should be use and racket should go more forward than upward and so a great fh loop is played, especially when using hard rubber and a lot power.
This ball definitely has topspin.

 
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There is certainly topspin on that ball, although that shot is some way from being a loop. Looks to me like a forehand drive in old money ! And thank you for a post which demonstrates exactly why we still need manufacturers to produce orange balls.

Hi, thanks: that's true: we need orange balls!
 
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Yeah I would say it is a loop kill. A totally flat kill with power only works if the ball is high enough because that is the only way you can smash the ball without a curve.

Using the intercept theorems a ball hit at your own baseline has to be at least 32cm (double net height) high to smash it in a straight line.

That is not Totally correct of course as you have to consider ball diameter, gravity and air resistance with the latter two causing a slight curve even to a totally straight smash but still a ball has to be quite high to be smashed without spin at a high speed (say 50+kph) and still make the table on the other side.
 
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Very thanks both... so, how should I call it? Loop kill?

And, by the way: every loop kill stroke has topspin on it?

ok couse because is a *loop* kill, and the sound of a strong flat hit and loop kill is a way different.
a strong flat hit is like the people is slapping the ball, literally hitting the ball to the other side, the loop kill sounds different, you can hear on some way yhe ball have spin

 
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NDH

says Spin to win!
It’s a loop.

The ball before has backspin, and you finish the point with a fast forehand loop.

The normal speed is probably a better video to watch to get the full picture.

Not everyone’s loop technique is perfect or “textbook”.

I don’t think the ball had a huge amount of backspin, and with the technique you have (where you almost pull out of the shot), it’ll be much harder to play those shots to a really heavy backspin ball.
 
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It’s a loop.

The ball before has backspin, and you finish the point with a fast forehand loop.

The normal speed is probably a better video to watch to get the full picture.

Not everyone’s loop technique is perfect or “textbook”.

I don’t think the ball had a huge amount of backspin, and with the technique you have (where you almost pull out of the shot), it’ll be much harder to play those shots to a really heavy backspin ball.

Very thanks for your time and words... yes, if the incoming ball would have more spin, I would have to hit more upwards.

By the way, what does it means "UK Premier Standard Player "? is it a league?
 

NDH

says Spin to win!

Very thanks for your time and words... yes, if the incoming ball would have more spin, I would have to hit more upwards.

By the way, what does it means "UK Premier Standard Player "? is it a league?

Yeah, in the UK we have local leagues, which is where the vast majority of people play.

I play in the top division.

Each league has a different standard, as it depends on the location and who plays in it.

I play in 4 different leagues, and 2 of them are very very strong, with the other 2 being a bit weaker - Still good, but the standard isn’t as high.

 

NDH

says Spin to win!
Very thanks... here at Argentina we cal "top" stroke when we make the ball fly with topspin. Do you call "loop" what we call "top"?
So, we have topspin shots and loops.

Both are topspin, but a loop would generally refer to a more aggressive shot (either against backspin or against another loop), whereas a topspin shot may be something like a return of serve (or as simple as when players start knocking up and do forehand to forehand, backhand to backhand).

it’s also probably worth pointing out that different people will define it as different things. This is just the way I’d define it.

So your shot was a topspin shot. But it was hit with aggression against a backspin shot, so I’d probably say that was your loop.

You mentioned that if it had more backspin, you’d lift the ball more, which may be more like a traditional loop.

There is no right or wrong way to define it as far as I’m aware though, it’s all open to interpretation!

 
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NDH

says Spin to win!
Hi, thanks for clarifying, now I understand better: a topspin shot may be to open an offensive exchange or enter an exchange not at maximum power, say between 50 and 70% power, instead a loop is to close the point with a winning shot at 90 or 100% power.
Close, but not quite how I’d describe it (although, I’ll repeat….. everyone will have their own interpretation, which really doesn’t matter in this instance).

In my mind, you can have a slow loop.

When a backspin shot is only just dropping off the table, and you loop it higher and slower to “get in” first….. it’s still a loop, but the speed isn’t high.

You can also have 100% top spin shots.

Technically, a big old slap down the line is still a top spin shot, but it wouldn’t be described as a loop (in my mind anyway).

Table tennis is one of those sports where people can describe the same thing in many different ways.

Which can often make it hard to talk about, especially in different languages!
 

NDH

says Spin to win!
Oh... could you find some examples on youtube about what would be called loop stroke and what would be called topspin stroke?

This is a good video for showing the difference.

At the start, I’d just describe them as normal
topspin forehand’s.

Then, towards the end (07:50), I’d describe that as a loop.

In simplistic terms, I just describe loops as heavier top spin shots - You can do this against incoming top spin or backspin.

https://youtu.be/KVaWcIAyKgQ

 

Hello Marcos
In my opinion it is definitely fh loop against high bounce backspin ball. This is the right way to attack a ball like this, because 40+ balls are heavier than celluloid, so when attacking it open bat angle should be use and racket should go more forward than upward and so a great fh loop is played, especially when using hard rubber and a lot power.
This ball definitely has topspin.

As far as I remember te new ball is still 2.7grams so it is not heavier but it is more resistant to deformation or feels harder.

 
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